jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 8, 2016 13:31:08 GMT -5
To the left is grit carefully scavenged, to the right was amount of SiC 30 used initially. Only 18 hours at 35 RPM Placing the used SiC 30 in the pickle jar on the vibe and separating it yielded clear delineation. Coarse particles came to the top, broken down settled to bottom. Method of separation: Bad photo, but particles visible Wash down, all slurry captured below Entire slurry to be poured thru bed sheet Sheet back washed into tub, very fie SiC particles left, too fine to shape rocks well Remaining SiC Remaining SiC washed to corner and then washed into pickle jar Used grit left, virgin grit right, on white plate Bottom level grit from vibration separation on left, larger grit skimmed off the top on right Closer in, smaller grit from bottom of pickle jar Closer in, larger grit skimmed off top
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 8, 2016 14:01:55 GMT -5
The large SiC 30 grit particles settle to the bottom like bombs. Specific gravity of almost 4, it is very heavy. Easy to separate. Some loss may have occurred in the separation process, but those particles darn small and ineffective in shaping in coarse grind.
conclusion:
Add SiC 30 every 48 hours to accelerate coarse grind. Which is costly due to high grit usage. But more costly to do 7 day cycles and have little grinding the last 5 of 7 days. Rarely do I see any 30 grit particles in my slurry after 48 hours, just a very few.
I do believe the thicker slurry made of clay at the start circulates the grit rapidly helping to grind earlier. Adding grit every 48 hours and adjusting the slurry by adding water and pouring off overly thick slurry makes good sense to speed up coarse grind.
Clean out after 3-4 grit additions, run #3/#4 addition at least 5-7 days to make sure grit added 3-4 times is broken down completely.
I think this is the best way to speed coarse grind.
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napoleonrags
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Post by napoleonrags on May 8, 2016 19:25:39 GMT -5
Good suggestions. I only have two barrels, high speed 15lber thumler's and a Lortone 12. I've found the thumblers breaks down 30 very well after 48 hours. After ruminating on your posts for awhile, my tumbles are much better and quicker.
Gracias amigo.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 8, 2016 19:38:07 GMT -5
Good suggestions. I only have two barrels, high speed 15lber thumler's and a Lortone 12. I've found the thumblers breaks down 30 very well after 48 hours. After ruminating on your posts for awhile, my tumbles are much better and quicker. Gracias amigo. Glad to hear. If in a hurry to shape I add grit every 3 days. At higher speeds like 50-60 RPM for +6 inch barrels it really breaks down fast. Grind on napolean
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 22:06:01 GMT -5
I will open my 82rpm barrel tomorrow I saw no grit at 2 days. Should have opened. yesterday.
Thanks for the quantitative analysis.
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es355lucille
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2016
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Post by es355lucille on May 9, 2016 1:19:53 GMT -5
Hi James, nice data! I noted that the thicker slurry as well slows down the grind. Lortone 12#'s break down grit pretty quickly. My dual 3#'s seem to take a lot longer, definitely not as aggressive of a grind. Maybe adding a percentage more grit at the initial grind would speed things up a bit? ......or prolong the time period to clean and add more. Very interesting observations! Thanks.
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 9, 2016 5:32:23 GMT -5
James, you should rinse out that sheet and put it right on the couch. If you got in trouble for using that dish towel, you're going to be in a heap of trouble for doing that to a bed sheet.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on May 9, 2016 6:33:27 GMT -5
An astute observation, Rob! James, we just don't won't you coming up missing or anything 'cause of that bed sheet...looks kinda heirloomy to me. Nice experiment and analysis! Thanks for sharing.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 6:36:19 GMT -5
Hi James, nice data! I noted that the thicker slurry as well slows down the grind. Lortone 12#'s break down grit pretty quickly. My dual 3#'s seem to take a lot longer, definitely not as aggressive of a grind. Maybe adding a percentage more grit at the initial grind would speed things up a bit? ......or prolong the time period to clean and add more. Very interesting observations! Thanks. If not a bit more grit certainly adding every 2-3 days in the 10+ pound barrels since 2 days seems to be the lifespan. Imagine a 2 inch tall tumbler and a 20 inch tall tumbler. Rest assured the 2 inch tumbler would have way less crushing pressure than the 20 inch one. It is possible that a large diameter tumbler could reduce coarse SIC in a matter of hours. Grinding effect on rocks much increased. Speaking of 20 inch diameter tumblers. Way to much banging with watery slurry. Will try clay thickener this year. The 20 inch build www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/albums/72157649670517562This machine was built before experimenting with thicker slurries and it frosted agate like it was glass. Now that I have found an infinite supply of clay thickener it must be put back into operation. It will be run with a very thick slurry. Clean out, 20 inch tumbler lol @shotgunner, that is a freak 5 inch entry pipe with a freak 5 inch rubber cap for clay pipes. Found on Ebay. Wanted a bigger opening than 4 inches. Unfortunately they do not make 5 inch PVC. 6 inch artesian wells illegal in Florida, 4 inch legal. So the well driller told me he can use 5 inch Korean pipe and still be legal. 5 inch pipe has 36% more area than 4 inch. Never seen a 5 inch pipe till then.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 6:43:48 GMT -5
Jugglerguy IntheswampMan up and take control of your women. Not only did I snatch a bed sheet, but her white Corelle ware dinner plates, her prized pickle jars and kitchen spoon were utilized in this test. She was taking a nap. And yes, I was tippy toeing.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 7:51:39 GMT -5
I would like to install a one inch ball valve in the cap so grit additions could be made easily. Use a funnel to get it in the hole. tank/bulkhead fitting would get it done.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 8:33:21 GMT -5
Another observation, do not put sharp agates on a Corelle plate lest you like exploding plates.
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wades
starting to spend too much on rocks
Gottfried Reiche (1667-1734)
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Post by wades on May 9, 2016 8:46:01 GMT -5
Another observation, do not put sharp agates on a Corelle plate lest you like exploding plates. This may have made my day.
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wades
starting to spend too much on rocks
Gottfried Reiche (1667-1734)
Member since February 2006
Posts: 202
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Post by wades on May 9, 2016 8:50:48 GMT -5
The large SiC 30 grit particles settle to the bottom like bombs. Specific gravity of almost 4, it is very heavy. Easy to separate. Some loss may have occurred in the separation process, but those particles darn small and ineffective in shaping in coarse grind. conclusion: Add SiC 30 every 48 hours to accelerate coarse grind. Which is costly due to high grit usage. But more costly to do 7 day cycles and have little grinding the last 5 of 7 days. Rarely do I see any 30 grit particles in my slurry after 48 hours, just a very few. I do believe the thicker slurry made of clay at the start circulates the grit rapidly helping to grind earlier. Adding grit every 48 hours and adjusting the slurry by adding water and pouring off overly thick slurry makes good sense to speed up coarse grind. Clean out after 3-4 grit additions, run #3/#4 addition at least 5-7 days to make sure grit added 3-4 times is broken down completely. I think this is the best way to speed coarse grind. I seem to recall discussions about coarse grit consumption in the distant past, which had similar conclusions about 60/90 grit in a 12# Lortone. I was able to convince myself that it made sense to add coarse grit to one of those every 3 days or so. The slurry does get really thick. My main reason for not doing this is the time it takes to get the lid and its seating area clean enough to put back together after adding grit.
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Post by txrockhunter on May 9, 2016 9:06:53 GMT -5
James, in one of your threads on homemade tumblers you mention adding grit every 2-3 days in rough grind. I thought that was a little quick, but since I started running the 6" barrels at 60-65 rpm, I have a hard time finding grit after 48 hours. I am surprised with the speed that the rocks are rounding! I am keeping the barrel 80-90% full to reduce crashing. I've added a little pea gravel and some clay for filler and noise reduction. I think you have made high quality tumbling results easier to achieve, faster, and in larger quantities, for anyone paying attention! Thanks for being curious & sharing the results!!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 10:41:18 GMT -5
Another observation, do not put sharp agates on a Corelle plate lest you like exploding plates. This may have made my day. Absolute explosion wades. The process they use must leave tremendous tensile stresses in Corelle ware. They take hell of impact but one tiny scratch.... Was flipping out about the product liability, sharp shards shooting into the wall and ceiling. It has happened a couple of times.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 10:48:35 GMT -5
James, in one of your threads on homemade tumblers you mention adding grit every 2-3 days in rough grind. I thought that was a little quick, but since I started running the 6" barrels at 60-65 rpm, I have a hard time finding grit after 48 hours. I am surprised with the speed that the rocks are rounding! I am keeping the barrel 80-90% full to reduce crashing. I've added a little pea gravel and some clay for filler and noise reduction. I think you have made high quality tumbling results easier to achieve, faster, and in larger quantities, for anyone paying attention! Thanks for being curious & sharing the results!! The rate of breakdown was a bit of a mystery till I switched to SiC 30 Jeremy. It is so easy to see and separate from the slurry. Only then did I realize how fast that abrasive breaks down. At 60 RPM there is no doubt it is about done in a couple of days. It is a heavy grit and will wash down so adding clay is a god idea to help 'float' the heavy particles. Thanks man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 15:17:10 GMT -5
I would like to install a one inch ball valve in the cap so grit additions could be made easily. Use a funnel to get it in the hole. tank/bulkhead fitting would get it done. Those bulkheads are very difficult to get a good seal on flat glass aquariums. I have used scores of them and every single one takes fiddling. They are vinyl, and you are using them on the cap, so maybe the inside can be sealed with pvc cement rather than the gasket provided.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 9, 2016 17:08:01 GMT -5
Never had trouble with them on EPDM, fiberglass, poly's, SS.
However a tumbler worries me @shotgunner.
Never used them on glass.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on May 9, 2016 17:17:20 GMT -5
Note to self,writing this info down!!!!
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