jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 11, 2016 6:38:53 GMT -5
Interesting thread, thanks. Hope that big disc barrel works out well. Did notice you used pi D [diameter] squared x H for volume, should be pi R [radius] squared x H. Yes. Can be diameter squared/4 or radius squared. checking, 10" 10 X 10 divided by 4 = 25 or 5 X 5 = 25 I forgot to divide by 4 so should be 1690/4 = 422 cu in. LOL, 1690 cu in is almost a cubic foot, shoulda known. Thanks for the heads up. Growing plants instead of engineering. That barrel disc was murder on rocks. Theory-If it is aggressive with a thin slurry it may be efficient grinder with protective slurry. Anxious to see what it does with padding. There was about zero 30 grit particles in the top tier of rocks using water. Grit wash down killing that tall bowl. Gonna be difficult to get coarse grit to stick to the rocks on any narrow but tall barrel IMO w/out thickener. ingawh has a friend that has a large tumbling operation. Seen photo of his barrels. Revealed very different barrels. Maybe 6-7 inches wide and looked like 20-24 inches tall. I believe the guy commercially tumbled Montana agate using 16 or 24 SiC in them. Seemed like she mentioned fast shaping times. Taking it to extreme, if you had a 6 foot diameter barrel you would have a very long sliding board for the rocks to rub. If you had a 3 inch barrel very little rubbing action. Such barrel shapes hard to seal, so I built this bowl config. Wish it were a cylinder instead of a bowl, but may not matter.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 11, 2016 7:23:25 GMT -5
I have to say thank you for this thread jamesp . I had started a new batch of agate on Sunday. It's some material I'm excited to finish. I had planned to open it up Thursday to ensure the volume hadn't decreased enough to cause problems. However I couldn't get your assertion that grit is used up after 48 hours out of my head. So !! ....... I had to check for myself. Sure glad I did. No grit and good but not overly thick slurry. Hmmmm. Now what? Top 'er off, recharge and go! Guess I'll still be opening Thursday, likely for another recharge. Looking forward to see how this works out. Something new to try as well. Been noticing coarse grit is el gonzo early for a while tk. If in a hurry, the least one can do is add grit at least every 3 days. Since there is a chance some of the 3 day grit is still not broken down then do not do a clean out. Just add grit. If the slurry is too thick for your likening, simply pour 20% of thick slurry out and replace with fresh water after 3 days. i.e. slurry management... That way you are not doing a clean out at 3 days and possibly trashing good grit. For barrels at least 6 inches in diameter at a good 35-40 RPM or faster adding grit every 2 days is even better. But if you have real watery slurry and are using larger grit like 30 or straight 46 you may not have good grit circulation and 2-3 days is probably not going to break down the grit. Milkshake slurry carries bigger grit. Just the way it is. found this out by accident by tumbling two types of coral. 1) Tumbling (baby)coral with a lot of soft lime coating. Made a thick slurry in a few hours, grit gone in 48 hours ?? what the ?? 2) Tumbling chips of coral with no lime coating, just hard chips, slurry stayed thin. Sometimes grit did not start breaking down even after 3 days. Not good... so the miniature corals were jump starting the thicker slurry, and the grit break down process.
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Post by spiceman on May 11, 2016 22:13:48 GMT -5
Early on in this topic you showed your slurry using coarse grit and kitty litter. It looked good so... I don't have coarse grit yet but with 60/90 and kitty litter my slurry has improved. I've learned something... Shyt happens. Thanks
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wades
starting to spend too much on rocks
Gottfried Reiche (1667-1734)
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Post by wades on May 12, 2016 15:45:22 GMT -5
{ snip } Thick slurry sticking the SiC 30 rocks very well. Bruising sounds gone. Fell certain that tall design is going to have much more grinding pressure on rocks and a longer avalanche where a lot of the grinding occurs. I have seen commercial operations use tall narrow barrels for more weight on the rocks for coarse grind verses a longer lower cylinder barrel. so doing some calculations Lortone 12 pound barrel, guessing 7 inche diameter, 11 inches long. Bear with, may be off, no matter. So volume is 7X7X11X3.14= 1690 cubic inches Solving length for 12 inch diameter for volume = 1690 cubic inches: 1690=12X12Xlengthx3.14= 452 X length. so length= 1690 divided by 452 = say 4 inches long SO, would a 7 inch diameter barrel 11 inches long grind rocks slower than a 12 inch diameter barrel 4 inches long, both having the same volume. My guess would be that the tall barrel would coarse grind faster because there is more rock weight and the avalanche is longer. This matches my intuition, and also jibes with the observation that coarse grinding goes noticeably faster in a 12# Lortone barrel than in a 3# Thumler's, which is about half the diameter.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 12, 2016 15:53:33 GMT -5
Yes @ wades, big barrels are going to exert much more pressure on the rocks. Basic and fundamental. Pretty sure a tall short barrel is a better grinder than a long slender barrel for coarse grinding.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on May 12, 2016 18:10:20 GMT -5
James, I know you ran some 8" barrels before settling in with the 6" ones. There was a reason you went with the 6", seems you opted for the smaller barrel due to frosting... ? I know the fittings are a lot more expensive but it seems the clay would solve the frosting problem. Just thinking...
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 12, 2016 18:54:58 GMT -5
James, I know you ran some 8" barrels before settling in with the 6" ones. There was a reason you went with the 6", seems you opted for the smaller barrel due to frosting... ? I know the fittings are a lot more expensive but it seems the clay would solve the frosting problem. Just thinking... They worked about the same. Fill em up 65-75% and very similar performance. Cost of 8 inch fittings was the only drawback, and long shafts like your build were amiable for longer 6 inch barrels. I felt they did course grind faster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 19:32:49 GMT -5
Johnny Cat at Walmart is working good.akes this method accessible to everyone. Kitty litter cheap. $4 for 25#
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Post by spiceman on May 12, 2016 20:41:16 GMT -5
That's good to hear. I am going to start looking for another tumbler or make one. Difficult, because there are so many different kinds. Which one is best... I think they are all good in there own way. What do you value the most? I take bits and pieces of all the thoughts and try to make the best.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on May 12, 2016 20:49:49 GMT -5
spiceman, I can't remember what type of tumbler that you currently have. Can you remind me? Thanks.
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Post by spiceman on May 12, 2016 20:55:26 GMT -5
I have a 3 pound that I bought at habor freight, now with PVC barrels.
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Post by spiceman on May 12, 2016 21:00:16 GMT -5
I will say it again... My slurry has improved 100 % using kitty litter. Cat adjusted, kitty approved. HA
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on May 13, 2016 6:42:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, spiceman. I ended up getting a Lot-O (got a deal on a used one) but figured I needed something to supply it with coarse ground/formed stones due to Lot-O being able to finish the later stages of polishing in only a week. So, you might consider looking a the Lortone or Thumbler 12-pounders. I really like the idea of the Lortone with two 6-pound barrels...with it you could double your current capacity and still have a barrel "reserved for polish-only". Later, if you acquire something like the Lot-O you could then use both barrels for coarse grind...you could even coarse grind different rocks in different barrels. Just some thoughts.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 13, 2016 7:49:19 GMT -5
Johnny Cat at Walmart is working good.akes this method accessible to everyone. Kitty litter cheap. $4 for 25# I will give the kitty litter a go just for test. Compare it to GA red clay. Lot of kitty litter mines in north and central Florida. They mine gumbo type clay to make litter. Not sure it is a platelet clay, and not sure if that matters. It is very slick. A good clay slurry should stain a lake LOL where is johnny cat mined ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 13, 2016 14:15:49 GMT -5
Coarse grit breakdown much slower in this 10 RPM machine. It is just too slow. Needs to go faster. OR- the rocks are not climbing well and slippage(in need of kicker) is occurring. Even though it is 20 inches in diameter, the heavy column of rocks is not breaking down grit. 5-6-7-8 inch diameter tumbler running 35-60 RPM much faster at coarse grinding. Propped it to a slant today to see if grit starts to breakdown. There could be slippage, the more it is slanted back the less chance for slippage. Will see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 15:52:08 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 13, 2016 16:01:59 GMT -5
As long as they use some Georgia clay all is well. Ochlocknee a serious coastal chert and coral zone. Fossiliferous zone. Millions of years wearing down quartz/felspar laced granite mountains made that clay. Good clay only to have a cat crap on it. Very disrespectful
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 13, 2016 17:20:40 GMT -5
@shotgunner, I would like to build a tumbler like the one above that turned 60-90 RPM. Using a 6-8 inch say steel pipe. Same 4 inch reduction to 4 inch pipe for rubber Fernco cap. Instead of having it spin at such high speed resting on rollers it would be cantilevered and supported by bearings similar to above, so vibration free. Run it horizontal as if on rollers. And have it tillable to a 'dump into bucket while rotating' arrangement. Use clay slurry, dial it in to turn as fast as it could without centrifugal force messing up the roll within. Round, not stepped barrel.
Might need to have grit injector set on 24 hours. kidding
May remove the slow gear box and do a double belt reduction to get the speed right. Torch bowl off and weld a 7 inch X 24 inch long pipe(in stock) to it. Or weld three 7 inch pipes on to the front of the bowl at 120 degree angles and have a Gatling gun tumbler. think about it, Farris wheel style
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