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Platinum
May 24, 2016 8:32:41 GMT -5
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Post by orrum on May 24, 2016 8:32:41 GMT -5
Kryptomite, krytamite, criptulmite.... I can't spell, it's the stuff that would get to Superman!!! That's what it is!!!
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on May 24, 2016 11:13:50 GMT -5
I am starting to feel that something is amiss here...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say silver- painted rocks.
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 14:12:30 GMT -5
Nice link, thanks! That gets specific about the formation of larger atoms. Science has known (believed?) that in general this was the case for along time. The idea isnt mine. Im just expanding awareness. I learned it from 1dave . The point is, it makes absolutely zero sense that the only recently sourced space material to be found on earth is iron-nickel. The heavier harder to form elements are obviously more rare. I am sure that if a platinum meteorite landed in your view (super rare!) that you would be 100% unable to convince conventional scientists of its origin. Without a corraborating witness' that is. If I was there they would say we conspired, and if we had three of us they would claim 'mass hysteria'.... Lol I'd like to offer that the Mogollon rim of arizona and the large collection of copper deposits in the area form a rough crater shape and are evidence of a large copper meteorite strike. Not necessarily. There is another possibility. Scientists have shown that transmutation can occur when elements are subjected to sudden intense temperature changes, which can occur from impact or plasma formed craters such as the Barringer crater in Arizona.
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 14:27:28 GMT -5
vegasjames You mentioned various characters for defining a meteorite. things like ablation, flow lines, a 'crust' formed during atmospheric entry.... These were formulated using iron meteorites. These may or may not be universal rules. As in your moon rock scenario..... Platinum has a very high melting point. Flow lines may or may not form. How hot does a heavy metallic meteorite get on entry? Various heavy metal meteorites will have various components. Thusly the characters of these potential meteorites will vary...... Oxidation may or may not be present, based on the elemental conponents and their chemistries. In the case of a tungsten metal entry, I sincerely dought it would change much at all during entry. 4500f melting point....... Platinum is 3215f Meteorites are coming in at literally thousands of miles per hour. When they hit the atmosphere there is a tremendous amount of frictional heat generated, which is what causes the plasma around the meteor and the melting of the surface. The plasma has a temperature well above the melting point of platinum. The temperature will depend particularly on angle of entry. But spectrographic analysis of meteor plasmas from one study of a meteor shower showed temperatures of the plasma between 7,000 to 8,000F. More than sufficient to melt the surface of any metallic meteor.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Platinum
May 24, 2016 14:55:42 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 14:55:42 GMT -5
Good knowledge. Thank you.
I'm not buying transmutation alchemy, lead into gold though. At least not to produce the mass of copper surrounding Arizona.
I'm just offering food for thought.
I wonder what platinum does in a plasma field.
I suppose we will never find a mercury meteorite as it would boil in space. Unless super large, Zinc would vaporize in the plasma field.
Off to Google cobalt nuggets
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 15:23:24 GMT -5
Good knowledge. Thank you. I'm not buying transmutation alchemy, lead into gold though. At least not to produce the mass of copper surrounding Arizona. I'm just offering food for thought. I wonder what platinum does in a plasma field. I suppose we will never find a mercury meteorite as it would boil in space. Unless super large, Zinc would vaporize in the plasma field. Off to Google cobalt nuggets Cobalt has been found in meteorites. Another thing though that leads me against the copper meteorite hypothesis is that a meteorite that large to create that much copper would have done some really serious damage if it came in steep. If it came in more shallow, like the Sikhote-Alin meteorite then it would have broken up really bad from the intense pressure from entry (especially copper, which is considerably less hard than iron-nickel meteorites) and thus would have scattered over a very large area, not concentrate in a relatively small area. And when meteorites break up like that they scatter in an elliptical field with the smaller pieces dropping first and larger pieces later so direction of travel can actually be determined. Therefore, if this was a broken up meteorite then the copper deposits would not be in a circular ring, but rather in an elliptical area probably over hundreds of miles due to the size it would have to have been. I still think that a lot of the elements more likely came from radioactive decay such as the decay of uranium to lead 234U --> 230Th --> 226Ra --> 222Rn --> 218Po --> 214Pb. The Earth was heavily pummeled with meteorites in its early formation. This would have brought a lot of elements in itself, but some would also have still been radioactive and thus would have decayed in to other minerals. Then these again could have been brought back up to the surface or close to the surface from magma, hydro-thermal processes or faults being pushed up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 16:18:20 GMT -5
Mogollon Rim pretty good evidence of a cataclysmic strike. High thermal conductivity of copper would have spread heat evenly very quickly. Near zero heat stress reduces likelihood of mass breaking up dramatically. Look at shape of the geography I am discussing. Copper in southern Nevada and Eastern California evidence of some break up of original mass. Atmosphere wasn't always as it is today. Keep pondering it. I certainly will. vegasjames, thanks for the challenging discussion. I love it! You are a good dude. Hoping you think the same of me.
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 17:21:22 GMT -5
Mogollon Rim pretty good evidence of a cataclysmic strike. High thermal conductivity of copper would have spread heat evenly very quickly. Near zero heat stress reduces likelihood of mass breaking up dramatically. Look at shape of the geography I am discussing. Copper in southern Nevada and Eastern California evidence of some break up of original mass. Atmosphere wasn't always as it is today. Keep pondering it. I certainly will. vegasjames , thanks for the challenging discussion. I love it! You are a good dude. Hoping you think the same of me. True the atmosphere was not always the way it is today. But when the Earth was no longer molten the atmosphere would have actually been denser initially due to high content of CO2 and other volcanic gases. That would meant even more atmospheric pressure on the meteor, which is what leads to the break up, not heat. An easy way to understand this is to consider a person in a wind tunnel. Look at how much their face gets distorted from the pressure as the speeds reach only 100mph. Now imagine the forces on a meteor coming in at 25,000 to 160,000 miles per hour, which are the average speeds they enter the atmosphere. The frictional heat really only affects the surface of the meteorite, but not the interior, which is also why meteorites are cool when they hit the ground unless they come in very steep. Then even the friction of impact can create a lot of heat. Anyway, they are entering at a minimum of 25,000 miles per hour and the atmosphere is going to slow them down to terminal velocity in a very short time. But all that creates a tremendous amount of pressure which leads to the break up the meteor. The denser the atmosphere the more pressure will be created as the gases of the atmosphere cannot be displaces that quickly. An analogy here is jump off a low diving board in to water and you go right in with little resistance. Jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and you are going to break things when you hit the water since it is like hitting concrete since the water cannot displace quick enough. Therefore, I still have no doubts that a copper meteor, if they exist, would certainly break up in to tiny fragments upon entry and many of those would burn up long before reaching the ground. A lot of the copper deposits are formed by hydrothermal processes from what I recall. What I have always found interesting though is why out West the copper tends to be as mineral ores as where up in Michigan they get masses of elemental copper. There is also another method in which nuggets or other masses of some metals have been shown to form. Many gold nuggets for example are actually formed by bacteria. I first heard of this about 30+ years ago. Since then this process has not only been shown to occur with different bacteria, but also occurs with other metals such as silver. Maybe platinum nuggets and elemental copper are also associated with microbial formation. Yes, I think the same of you. Actually enjoying the discussion very much. I like thought provoking conversations.
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 17:28:34 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 17:45:00 GMT -5
From what I am reading the Mongollon Rim was formed from an upheaval, not a meteorite strike. www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCZ5FD_mogollon-rim?guid=9b175fad-caae-42a7-bdb4-164cf429774dThe Barringer crater is nearby, but this would not account for the copper for several reasons. First, the meteor that lead to the mile wide crater is estimated to only be about 100 feet across. There is a lot more copper than that in Arizona. Secondly, the meteor was iron-nickel. Technically this was not even a meteorite strike. Scientists now believe that the crater was not formed from a strike but actually from the plasma ball around the meteor. Kind of like taking an air gun sand blasting a crater in to a pile of sand with the high pressure air.
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Platinum
May 24, 2016 20:49:43 GMT -5
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Post by orrum on May 24, 2016 20:49:43 GMT -5
Nobody wants to get on board with me on the Kryptomite??? No Superman fsns? Sigh.....
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Post by vegasjames on May 24, 2016 23:02:20 GMT -5
Nobody wants to get on board with me on the Kryptomite??? No Superman fsns? Sigh..... You are confusing people with the wrong spelling. It's kryptonite.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Platinum
May 24, 2016 23:28:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 23:28:58 GMT -5
Nobody wants to get on board with me on the Kryptomite??? No Superman fsns? Sigh..... You are confusing people with the wrong spelling. It's kryptonite. Literally lol!!
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