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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 19, 2017 19:07:28 GMT -5
A slow approach may be the best thing when approaching something so new. Good for you, Pat. Please keep us up on how you proceed. Good luck and have fun!
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Feb 21, 2017 13:22:15 GMT -5
Can't wait for you to break the ice. You may have picked up that the disks should be kept in order with the fine grades at the top.
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Post by Pat on Feb 21, 2017 13:47:24 GMT -5
Re disks: said to store them vertically, so any grit falls away from them. I found disk holders online and will order. Along with hard disks, I also have toppers. Herbst is my evening read.
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Feb 21, 2017 16:06:50 GMT -5
This is exciting to watch, Pat. I've seen faceting machines in use at local shows but because of lack of time never paid too close of attention, so I suppose I'm as green about this as you were. Please keep updating, it's a great learning experience!
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Feb 24, 2017 16:48:48 GMT -5
I find faceting very interesting. I have a mechanical engineering background and this type of precision work really gets my brain going. But, wow, the costs to get into something like this are steep. And I can fully appreciate why the cost is there. I'm guessing it's pretty hard to cut something so precise on a "just good enough" setup. I'm enjoying your posts!
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Post by Pat on Feb 27, 2017 21:01:58 GMT -5
If you know how to dop with wax, you might want to skip this part. I had never seen it done, and still haven't. I have two dop pots --- one uses a tea light candle (maybe), and the other is a Raytech electric. First questions I have is how do I shave? the wax off the stick it comes in? How much to use? How long does it take? Instruction page for the Raytech says it takes about thirty minutes for the unit to warm up. Egads! No hints as to how to shave or slice off the wax into the receptacle. Off to Google. A good thing, too. No shaving or slicing; takes very little wax and it comes directly off the stick. I can't imagine (yet) why it would take a half hour. Here are my dop heaters. 1 fullsizeoutput_1576 by Pat, on Flickr The above is the Raytech. I've already chipped off a lot of the caked, really caked on green wax. I understand that I should use black wax for faceting. The difference is the heat it can stand. I tried to undo the four screws holding the top on, so I could get the wax off and any wax that was inside. Not knowing anything about motors, I am extra careful. One screw out, three to go. 2 fullsizeoutput_1577 by Pat, on Flickr The above shows exactly which Raytech it is and the extent of the wax used by the former owner. I've chipped away a lot. 3 IMG_1582 by Pat, on Flickr This is the Lortone GDS-1. Looks like it uses a tea candle. It has slots in the back for dop sticks, I assume, but I don't know what the tall thing to the right is for --- biiiig dop sticks?? Anyhow, I've printed out a few things on the subject and will read tonight. One video showed using a clothespin to hold the dop stick to save fingers. Will track one down. Also showed using transfer jig to to center stone on dop. Apparently, it hardens quickly. I wish I could show you at least one faceted side/face, but it's coming to your local.... : )
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Feb 27, 2017 22:06:27 GMT -5
Pat, many folks recommend wax dopping for faceting but I've never found it satisfactory -- and I'm a veteran wax dopper for cabochon work. For faceting I find it much easier and more dependable to use 5-minute epoxy. IIRC, I think I sent you a PM about how to do it. If you need more help with it let me know. Its a simple procedure, no burned fingers or shifting/dropped stones.
The one major advantage of wax dopping is the ability to quickly adjust a stone if it's not centered properly or if an unexpected flaw appears. But I think that advantage is far outweighed by the many other advantages of the epoxy method.
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 28, 2017 11:08:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the walk through with this, Pat. I know zero about faceting, so it's really interesting.
I use a bendable desk lamp with an old fashioned bulb to help heat the wax faster. Also, I use acetone to clean up the mess. Works great.
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metalsmith
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Feb 28, 2017 13:18:09 GMT -5
I don't have such luxuries, just a tin (airgun pellet type) shallow dish style. I tend to melt the side of a large chunk of wax and daub it on the dop. Fixing the stone whilst there is still some play in the wax or just keeping it going on a gentle heat. The general principle was to heat the stone, stick and wax and let a blob of wax run down on top of the stone. There are some videos on youtube should help you do it properly. Let me know if you can't find them.
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micellular
has rocks in the head
Rock fever is curable with more rocks.
Member since September 2015
Posts: 640
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Post by micellular on Feb 28, 2017 13:58:44 GMT -5
I use brown wax, and really do like the benefits of being able to adjust to stone if needed. I heat the end of the wax stick until it just starts flowing near (but not in) the flame of a butane torch, then while it's flowing wipe it onto the dop.
I have used superglue on heat sensitive stones before and it worked alright, but I tended to have more failures than with wax.
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Post by Pat on Mar 1, 2017 14:25:29 GMT -5
I find faceting very interesting. I have a mechanical engineering background and this type of precision work really gets my brain going. But, wow, the costs to get into something like this are steep. And I can fully appreciate why the cost is there. I'm guessing it's pretty hard to cut something so precise on a "just good enough" setup. I'm enjoying your posts! Is there a club near you, or maybe even a faceting club? I'd check around for a used faceting machine. If any of your local schools or rock shops hold classes, they might also be a good source. Along with metalsmith, I'd also recommend the two volumes of Tom Herbst's books. Good advice for beginners. Good luck!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 1, 2017 15:03:25 GMT -5
Pat , you are going to wish that you never stirred this pot, lol. I bought a used Lee faceter at one of our club's silent auctions for $60 (I think) a few years ago. I have since picked up a few disks for it (swap meet and beefjello), now I just need the time to start working with it.
I have a nice dop pot, and various waxes to use with it, green, black, brown, etc. Have done some research, know what I am going to use. Have plenty of the metal dop sticks, still need to buy/or purchase a nice transfer jig. Have picked up los of facetting rough over the years, all I need is the time to do it!
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Post by Pat on Mar 1, 2017 15:14:59 GMT -5
Pat , you are going to wish that you never stirred this pot, lol. I bought a used Lee faceter at one of our club's silent auctions for $60 (I think) a few years ago. I have since picked up a few disks for it (swap meet and beefjello), now I just need the time to start working with it.
I have a nice dop pot, and various waxes to use with it, green, black, brown, etc. Have done some research, know what I am going to use. Have plenty of the metal dop sticks, still need to buy/or purchase a nice transfer jig. Have picked up los of facetting rough over the years, all I need is the time to do it! This pot sort of landed in my lap. It was buy it (good price), or it would go to the dump. Could not let that happen. Never had considered faceting. Looked too tedious, and then there are all those numbers! However, I thought the same thing about chainmail. Learning that was sort of an accident as well. I liked it after getting over the first hump --- being able to see jumpring positions. Now I am looking forward to flipping that switch and off we go to who knows where!
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 1, 2017 15:17:18 GMT -5
Into the wild blue yonder!!!
ETA - Pat, I'll bet micellular thought that one time too!
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Post by Pat on Mar 1, 2017 17:05:52 GMT -5
I don't have such luxuries, just a tin (airgun pellet type) shallow dish style. I tend to melt the side of a large chunk of wax and daub it on the dop. Fixing the stone whilst there is still some play in the wax or just keeping it going on a gentle heat. The general principle was to heat the stone, stick and wax and let a blob of wax run down on top of the stone. There are some videos on youtube should help you do it properly. Let me know if you can't find them. metalsmith I've seen a few, but if you have some good links, I'd like to take a look. Thanks. ETA I think short cat-food cans would work, too.
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Post by pauls on Mar 1, 2017 21:52:01 GMT -5
Cat food tins are good if you can get over the stink of fish when you heat it, the smell seems to keep on coming for ages.
I generally just wipe a small amount of wax onto the dop, just enough to stick the stone.
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Post by Pat on Mar 1, 2017 23:34:09 GMT -5
rockjunquie. Tomorrow I'll try acetone to clean up the electric dop wax heater. I figure since acetone can remove fingernail polish dry, it should be able to remove dry wax. Should add I want to check put all the wax colors I have just to see how they work. Then will check out the 2-part, 5- minute epoxy for comparison to the waxes.
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Mar 1, 2017 23:54:57 GMT -5
rockjunquie . Tomorrow I'll try acetone to clean up the electric dop wax heater. I figure since acetone can remove fingernail polish dry, it should be able to remove dry wax. Should add I want to check put all the wax colors I have just to see how they work. Then will check out the 2-part, 5- minute epoxy for comparison to the waxes. Pat , a suggestion on cleaning your wax heater (Raytech). Remove the aluminum top (remove the 4 screws and it should pry off upward pretty easily) then pop it into the freezer for half an hour or so. Use a sharp flat device like a small paint scraper to chip the hardened wax off. Repeat if necessary. Acetone will do the job but it's not good to breathe the fumes or get it on your hands. I'm told the toxic stuff, damaging to the liver, is absorbed through the skin.
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Post by Pat on Mar 2, 2017 0:47:53 GMT -5
gemfeller. I didn't know about absorption through the skin. I'm having trouble removing the screws. Got one off with trouble. Three to go. I have some Liquid Wrench; that might help. I suspect the melted wax got under the screws. Will try the freezer method first. Works for loosening cabs. Thanks. I'm reading about lap care now, and dressing your laps.
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