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Post by mohs on Aug 19, 2016 22:39:24 GMT -5
well that’s a bummer especially if you can’t easily change out the bearing and finding a used arbor would probably be economically prohibitive
but it still usable if you can put up with the noise I don’t think you’d be able to worse comes to worse you still have a machine that you sale at a profit
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Aug 19, 2016 23:10:45 GMT -5
With that saw's age it could have packed bearings, insert bearings, or a water pump bearing with a permanently fixed arbor shaft threaded on the blade end. If you'd like to take the pulley off of the saw arbor and take a photo of the bearing end where the shaft protrudes it might help us determine what type of bearings are in there. If they are sealed insert bearings they should be fairly easy and inexpensive to replace. If it's a water pump bearing similar to what the Rock Rascal model "J" uses then that can be more difficult to find and more expensive.
To replace the water pump style bearing you'd probably have to first locate a generic stock bearing that will fit and then find a machine shop willing to thread the saw end of the shaft for you. A lot of machine shops won't touch that job because the steel on those is so hard they are difficult to cut threads in. One shop told me the threaded shaft type water pump bearings are threaded before the steel is hardened, not after. I once did find a local machine shop that agreed to thread one for me but afterwards said he would never do it again becasue it ruined his cutting bit.
Larry C.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Aug 20, 2016 8:40:09 GMT -5
our saws sure look the same from a distance but my arbor and bearing setup is much different. This was the first time I took a close look at mine and it almost looks like the sludge cover is welded to the back of the washer that the blade goes up against. Chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 20, 2016 9:41:10 GMT -5
Wow, that is different. I thought about taking parts from my other GemLap saw and moving them to this new one, but those parts are different too. My two saws are more similar than yours is to mine. QuailRiver, I tried to get the pulley off this morning, but it was stuck on the shaft pretty well. I'll try again later. While I had the two GemLaps setting side by side, I tried spinning both blades by hand. Although the other one is much quieter, they both spin for almost exactly the same time before stopping. Drummond Island Rocks may be right that there's nothing wrong with my saw. It's just much louder than any of the other three saws I own. My wife noticed the difference upstairs too.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 20, 2016 9:43:13 GMT -5
If you remove the blade, can that silver cap next to the blade come off that end of the arbor? I'm not sure. I'll give it a try. My guess is that it won't come off.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 10:04:40 GMT -5
Those compact bearing units commonly used on saws can be cumbersome. The video sounds like the roar of a dry ball bearing. Looks like a ball bearing pressed into the blue outer tube. Not sure, but looks like outer race and black seal. It is likely. 1- remove shaft unit 2-remove blade and pulley. 3-see if you can get tiny number off of ball bearings if so equiped, order replacements. May have to be removed first to get numbers. 4-clean shaft with fine sand paper 5-start pressing shaft and bearings out. Maybe a car shop can handle the pressing operations. 6-Remove and replace bearings and press it all back together. -IF- it does have bearings... Could be a bronze bushing, but if that was true it should have a grease fitting. So my vote is sealed ball bearings. Me personally would take it to the local car mechanic and let him dismantle the shaft unit after removing it. Suspected ball bearing. Shaft unit should have a shaft, two ball bearings(one on each end) and the outer tube(painted blue).
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 10:16:48 GMT -5
Water pump was mentioned, great example. Pretend impeller on left is saw blade. Shaft sticking out on right is for pulley. Two vertical rectangles in center is cross section of ball bearings. Pressing the bearings and shaft out basically sucks. Can make patient man pick up sledge hammer and go serial.
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Post by mohs on Aug 20, 2016 10:19:16 GMT -5
I borrowed one from auto mechanic Harbor Freight as them pretty cheap
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 10:24:14 GMT -5
I borrowed one from auto mechanic Harbor Freight as them pretty cheap Does that look like a dual bearing mandrel arrangement Ed ? You have seen a million of them. Mandrel set up like that is bulletproof with new sealed bearings.
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Post by mohs on Aug 20, 2016 10:27:10 GMT -5
your right james ! meant to post these for removing the pulley
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 10:28:55 GMT -5
May need the hydraulic arrangement for that job
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 10:29:51 GMT -5
your right james ! meant to post these for removing the pulley 10-4. Pulley may be a challenge too judging from rust on shaft.
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 20, 2016 12:28:30 GMT -5
I think I would let it run with the table top off and no coolant for 5 minutes or so and then feel the ends for heat. If it's not overly hot I say use as is until the bearings start to get noticeably louder. The one at the clubs lap shop has the short bearings like Chucks, kind of a PITA because the pulley is so close to the table that I have to use a small pulley. Definitely run the belt loose enough to get about a 1" deflection with about a lb of force.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
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Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Aug 20, 2016 15:15:06 GMT -5
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Aug 20, 2016 15:31:09 GMT -5
Water pump was mentioned, great example. Pretend impeller on left is saw blade. Shaft sticking out on right is for pulley. Two vertical rectangles in center is cross section of ball bearings. Pressing the bearings and shaft out basically sucks. Can make patient man pick up sledge hammer and go serial. This might help with the visual. Here is Johnson Brother's photo of the threaded shaft water pump bearing like the Rock Rascal model "J" uses. The shaft is permanently fixed to the bearing. When mounted in a flange sleeve this type of bearing can be a real pain to extract. A bearing press is about the only safe way to extract them without risking damaging the flange sleeve that they are mounted in. Larry C/
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 20, 2016 17:09:30 GMT -5
Yep. A good bearing press looks to be the path. Looking up Peek's Auto Repair's phone number. I suppose the whole unit replacement may be an option if still available.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 20, 2016 17:14:42 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I'm going to try running it as Lee suggested. I also called a friend of mine who is an engineer at a small shop. He also likes to tinker with old Jeeps in his spare time. With his experience and being here in person, he might be able to give me some advice. I'm going to show him this thread so that he can also benefit from all of your experience. Thanks again.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 20, 2016 19:11:56 GMT -5
Rockoonz, I just ran it for about five minutes like you recommended. It didn't get hot at all, not even warm. The belt was slightly warm, but not hot. I loosened the belt a bit too.
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Post by greig on Aug 21, 2016 23:13:33 GMT -5
The lube needs to go inside. If it is a sealed or shield bearing, it is very difficult to get lube into it. Only method that I am aware requires a vacuum chamber. As such, you might have to buy new bearings.
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Post by oregon on Aug 22, 2016 19:53:49 GMT -5
The video sounds like the roar of a dry ball bearing. I agree. Would expect as much from equipment that has sat for so long. The grease can harden, and the inner bare surfaces can rust after years. I've had luck in some instances soaking the bearings in penetrating oil, brake fluid, or the parts cleaner (depended on what fluid is at hand) without disassembling. Many times I've seemed to have gotten a wee bit of lubricant in there and run the bearings and hear them quiet right down. Replacement is a better option, but might be worth a quick shot to see if you can bring old bearings back with ease.
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