jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 11, 2016 18:37:02 GMT -5
I have 4 PVC barrels from 15-22 pounds. They are about worn out. I want to start tumbling 2-4 pound rocks, one per barrel. All pre-shaped on a diamond cup wheel. So I found these 6 inch sch 40 PVC couplings real cheap. They are actually 6 inch electrical conduit couplings. Still figuring how to make say 6 pound capacity barrels out of them. The smaller rocks that are run with the big rock will still be target tumbles. Not just media. These barrels will have a 4 inch opening. www.ebay.com/itm/282165838744?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 11, 2016 18:42:28 GMT -5
I made another cover for my tub vibe that has dividers so there are 3 compartments. To run three large rocks with out them bumping against each other. Hope it works.
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Post by txrockhunter on Sept 11, 2016 22:45:57 GMT -5
Love where you're going with this. Having specialized barrels, to run different materials.....genius! And you can run all the barrels on the same machine!
Thanks for innovating!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 12, 2016 6:48:55 GMT -5
Love where you're going with this. Having specialized barrels, to run different materials.....genius! And you can run all the barrels on the same machine! Thanks for innovating! I am looking at a way to cap the end of a 6" coupling with a PVC plug and sticking the same 6" to 4" reducer bushing in the other side for a shorter barrel Jeremy. What is called a 'spigot fitting' may do the trick for the plug. Don't have it figured out quit yet. Got those Carlon couplings 10 for $82 incl shipping. Leaving money in the budget to figure the rest of the design. Would like to run 6-8 small 6 pound barrels. And definitely, run them all side by side on the long shaft similar to your long shaft tumbler. Looking forward to doing some large specimen tumbles out of agate at least half as pretty as Jeremy agate. Main target is a 2-4 pound pre-shaped rock in each barrel. Running two big rocks in one barrel has been a challenge due to impact damage. One big rock with average size tumbles per barrel should work fine. Those 3 pounders act like bombs hitting each other. Tried tumbling such together and have a hard time not damaging them. Will run the shorter barrels on same machine:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 12, 2016 6:53:22 GMT -5
May(will) have to put rubber coating on the dividers to prevent metallic marks on tumbles. Like a section of bicycle inner tube stretched over them.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Sept 12, 2016 13:00:06 GMT -5
I did a little figuring on those 6" couplers, looks like .69 gallon capacity, just what you want for what you are doing. I make 6" barrel caps by turning the plastic material to O.D. size and attaching the fixed end cap with drywall screws [innertube material for gasket], then setting hanger bolts for attaching the removable end. The wall thickness of your couplers would allow for #10 hanger bolts for the attachment. I have some pieces of Corian I've been wanting to try as end covers, but haven't had a reason to machine any up. Be willing to turn a couple pieces and pre-drill them if you want to try it.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Sept 12, 2016 14:22:20 GMT -5
Signing on to see how the caps and ends are figured out!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 12, 2016 21:25:11 GMT -5
I did a little figuring on those 6" couplers, looks like .69 gallon capacity, just what you want for what you are doing. I make 6" barrel caps by turning the plastic material to O.D. size and attaching the fixed end cap with drywall screws [innertube material for gasket], then setting hanger bolts for attaching the removable end. The wall thickness of your couplers would allow for #10 hanger bolts for the attachment. I have some pieces of Corian I've been wanting to try as end covers, but haven't had a reason to machine any up. Be willing to turn a couple pieces and pre-drill them if you want to try it. All about the end cap method Larry. What centers do you do the dry wall screws ? Dry walls got the grab. The inner tube gasket, does it cover the whole end cap on the inside, or do you cut it into a ring ? I have a band saw and can cut circles well enough for OD, but not a press ID, so can do.(cut a bit oversize and grind overage after attached). Plastic material ? butcher block polyethylene ? PVC ? thicker seems better. I hear the Corian.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 12, 2016 21:27:24 GMT -5
Signing on to see how the caps and ends are figured out! quartz is a master with the plastics. Was hoping for his advise to fly in over the airways.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 12, 2016 21:41:24 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 1:34:52 GMT -5
Pure effing genius!
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Sept 13, 2016 2:03:24 GMT -5
Master, me???
I use screw distance at 1 per inch of barrel diameter, yours would be six screws. This has worked for me on barrels from 6-12" diameters. Put the drywall and hanger bolt screws at a diameter that gives 1/8" wall outside of the screw. All holes must be pre drilled. I drill the covers at a diameter that will be drilled into the barrel for the screws, line up the cover on the barrel and put a worm drive hose clamp right over the barrel-cap joint to maintain alignment. Hold the cap down when drilling so it can't pull up. drill all holes deep enough into the barrel so the screws won't bottom out. Then open up the holes in the covers for screw clearance. Good idea to have two drills, stick one in the first hole while drilling the rest. For the fixed end cover: Drill the cover, put it on and drill into the barrel with a 7/64" drill, remove the cover, drill the cover holes out for clearance with 5/32" drill, and countersink the outer side of the cover with a #4 center drill[machinist talk], or "combined drill and countersink"[laymen's term]. c'sk to full depth of the taper on the bit sets the screws flush with the outside of the cover. Regular countersink works O.K. too, watch the depth. These screws are pretty hard, best hand driven to avoid the heads snapping off; learned by experience. I use 1 5/8" long drywall screws. For the removable end: Assuming #10 hanger bolts, drill the covers 5/32", put the cover on the barrel, and match drill the barrel. Remove the cover and open the holes in it to #7 drill or 13/64" drill, whichever you have. I drill and tap a piece of hex or square stock 10-24 to a length just shorter than the threads on the screw, then drill and tap 5/16 18 or 24 from the other end of the stock so a 5/16 bolt will rest on the end of a 10-24 screw inserted in the tapped hole for it. This makes a stud driver. Good to match mark both caps to barrels before drilling so as to eliminate layout errors, no one is perfect. Barrels with enough wall thickness, I use 1/4" hanger bolts.
Rubber gaskets must be made as rings, solid wears out in the middle and makes a magnificent grit-pebble trap [experience again talking here]. Butcher block poly works good, I like 1/2" minimum thickness, more O.K., PVC harder and not as abrasion resistant. Tighten the nuts on the removable end screws only enough so the gasket just starts too pooch out, not very tight but works for me, and the screws last well. Always use a washer under the nuts. I always lube the screws with WD-40 every time I put a lid on. I reach through the removable end cover, mark the gasket with a sharp punch, and punch holes in the gasket to go over the studs. I find newer 1/4" hand punches aren't built strong enough to do this, crushed a few, got some older ones at sales, they work.
Hope all this makes sense, guess I'll write my next novel in the morning.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Sept 13, 2016 7:22:17 GMT -5
WOW!!! Definitely got it figured out there, Larry! Nice job!!! Oh well, I guess I'm outa luck with my old broken-claw clawhammer and bearing-deprived skilsaw.<chuckle>
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 13, 2016 8:52:08 GMT -5
quartz, this is the critical info I needed. Every single word. Screw size, screw length, drill sizes, alignment method, breakability of screws in that tough PVC. Answered the whole blob of questions, not one stone unturned. This: "For the fixed end cover: Drill the cover, put it on and drill into the barrel with a 7/64" drill, remove the cover, drill the cover holes out for clearance with 5/32" drill, and countersink the outer side of the cover with a #4 center drill[machinist talk], or "combined drill and countersink"[laymen's term]. c'sk to full depth of the taper on the bit sets the screws flush with the outside of the cover. Regular countersink works O.K. too, watch the depth. These screws are pretty hard, best hand driven to avoid the heads snapping off; learned by experience. I use 1 5/8" long drywall screws." And this: "Rubber gaskets must be made as rings" "Butcher block poly works good, I like 1/2" minimum thickness, more O.K., PVC harder and not as abrasion resistant. Tighten the nuts on the removable end screws only enough so the gasket just starts too pooch out" ---I will look for some 3/4 inch plastic plate at the industrial junk yard. I often see laminated fabric phenolic plates 3/4 to one inch thick. Not sure about it's abrasion resistance.Also white poly/nylon ?? butcher block plate.--- Your design makes a neat tidy barrel. I am going to be defiant on the open end and glue a 6" to 4" slip slip bushing. Too fond of the 4 inch Fernco caps. Lazy boy entry. Limits tumble to 4 inches... And am curious why you don't use the bushing on the 6 inch barrels. I can get them at Lowes for $17. Bushings for 8-10-12 inch PVC pipe are way expensive. 8" was $50 for example. I know you have a good reason. Thanks for detailed instructs.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 13, 2016 8:57:42 GMT -5
WOW!!! Definitely got it figured out there, Larry! Nice job!!! Oh well, I guess I'm outa luck with my old broken-claw clawhammer and bearing-deprived skilsaw.<chuckle> I am not sure, but I think Larry quartz made some octahedral barrels out of plate plastic. Maybe my memory is playing games w/me...
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Sept 13, 2016 12:26:35 GMT -5
Understand your preference for the caps, I used one on that vibe I built, but the bushings aren't available out here in this primitive area w/o special order or lots of driving. Lowlifes here goes to 4", Despot [26 miles away] same.
One thing I didn't mention; when I attach the fixed cap to the barrel, I put a good layer of sealant on both sides of the gasket. My preference is "Weld" adhesive sealant, comes in a two-tube pack, primarily red in color.
I did build a double barrel octagon set of 1 3/4 gallon capacity each out of 3/4" thick UHMW plastic, years of run on them, years left.
Did make a couple small barrels out of phenolic, found the activity in the barrel eats the fabric component of the material fairly quickly, personally would avoid using it except for expected short term experiment.
Butcher block plate here is white nylon, works good for me.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 13, 2016 19:20:32 GMT -5
Understand your preference for the caps, I used one on that vibe I built, but the bushings aren't available out here in this primitive area w/o special order or lots of driving. Lowlifes here goes to 4", Despot [26 miles away] same. One thing I didn't mention; when I attach the fixed cap to the barrel, I put a good layer of sealant on both sides of the gasket. My preference is "Weld" adhesive sealant, comes in a two-tube pack, primarily red in color. I did build a double barrel octagon set of 1 3/4 gallon capacity each out of 3/4" thick UHMW plastic, years of run on them, years left. Did make a couple small barrels out of phenolic, found the activity in the barrel eats the fabric component of the material fairly quickly, personally would avoid using it except for expected short term experiment. Butcher block plate here is white nylon, works good for me. "I did build a double barrel octagon set of 1 3/4 gallon capacity each out of 3/4" thick UHMW plastic, years of run on them, years left." The octahedra a work of art. Thanks for the sealant note
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 14, 2016 7:52:50 GMT -5
quartz, I see what you are saying about phenolic. That stuff has a lot of layers of fabric. I have a quarter inch thick 4' X 4' sheet of grey PVC sheet. Do you think I could pvc glue 3 sheets together in a vice and have dependable 3/4 plate stock for your end cover design ? Or should I wait till I get some 3/4 butcher block nylon ? Leaning toward the nylon because the first 1/4 inch layer of PVC sheet will get breached after 6-8 months. Could leak out glued laminate joint..
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Post by orrum on Sept 14, 2016 8:01:09 GMT -5
Watching this closely Jim!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 14, 2016 9:41:26 GMT -5
Watching this closely Jim! Are you thinking about small barrels Bill ?
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