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Post by captbob on Nov 5, 2016 17:04:47 GMT -5
Back before jamesp and I headed for Texas, he had a thread going about tumbling overly large rocks. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/76227/next-tumble-wood-pounds-shineLots of different big rocks and some experimenting going on in that thread. In that thread, I started a tumble of my own with a hefty sized Rio agate and a bunch of medium sized Rio agates that I had gotten previously from Mel Sabre52 . Mostly some end cuts and heels for my "smalls". Just 30 grit and no smalls. Wanted to give what jamesp was doing a try to see how well it worked. First week check, some edges getting rounded. Those with a crust skin on them starting to shed the skin. After a week or two, I decided that the large, almost 3 pound, piece just wasn't going to be all that, so I pulled it and added a similar sized piece of Stone Canyon that I had sitting around. I don't recall taking any pictures of the Stone Canyon when I threw it in the barrel. May toss the Rio in another barrel someday, dunno. Left my tumblers running while I was out of town. This was probably a waste of tumbling time, as the grit broke down and the rocks were left just doing their own thing. Didn't care, it was easier than cleaning out and shutting down my tumblers. Anyway, when I got back from Texas I did a grit recharge and tossed in a couple Rio agates that I had found in Texas. Remember, Mother Nature has done a lot of the tumbling work for us by the time the rocks made it all the way down the river to Zapata. Did an inspection today of the Rio barrel and a grit recharge. 30 grit again, will move to some finer grit next time I get to that barrel. Here's a few pics from today. Rios from Mel shaping up very nicely. First of two Rio agates that I found in Texas which I added when I got home. The two rocks were added on Oct 29th, so 6ish days in the barrel running with 30 grit. Told ya Mother Nature had already done most of the work! The other new addition from Zapata. Biscuit, about 4" across, but under an inch thick. A couple pics of the Stone canyon piece. Shaping nicely, ought to be a killer rock when finished. Those two new pieces that I added last week are already good to move on to the next grit whenever I get around to it. Probably go to 60/90 next, may add some smalls or ceramics - we'll see... jamesp should be home soon and hopefully there will be Rio Grande agates running in his tumblers in a quickness. Doubt there will be any shortage of Rios being tumbled pictures around here! Will update this as the load moves through various grits and through polish. Don't hold your breath tho, I don't bother with my rocks as often as I could. They don't seem to mind. ETA: One more pic of the Stone Canyon I just noticed I had taken. It's a good sized chunk.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 5, 2016 18:40:27 GMT -5
Those are looking great, Bob! Thanks for posting the pictures, I'm looking forward to seeing them when they're done. You and James have made me really want to go to Texas on a rock hunt.
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Post by paulshiroma on Nov 5, 2016 19:27:02 GMT -5
Hey captbob! These are beautiful pieces! Nicely done! How long were they running at 30? Paul
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 19:41:16 GMT -5
That stone cyn is amazing.
That green and yellow mossyish Rio knocks my duck dead in the dirt.
Looking great!
Thanks again!! Woot!!
I hope to be rolling my stuff in 2 weeks... (Sheepishly walks away)...
Btw, get that first Rio rolling someday. I bet a nickel it surprises you!
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Nov 5, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -5
Very well done Bob,those are crazy cool!!!!!!!!!
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richardh
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Post by richardh on Nov 5, 2016 21:57:21 GMT -5
Looking great and that stone mountain is just rubbing it in big time. Paint me green!!!
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Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2016 9:11:08 GMT -5
How long were they running at 30? Paul Thanks Paul. From my notes, they started on Sept 27 Sept 27 start Oct 1 add grit Oct 3 add grit Oct 7 pulled big Rio added grit + added Stone Canyon Oct 14 add grit Texas trip happened - load ran 15 days, way too long, without new grit Oct 29 add grit + 2 Zapata Rio agates Nov 5 add grit No clean outs yet, just checking on progress and adding grit. Still have a thin slurry after adding all that grit! Always 30 grit and either a cup or 1 1/2 cup each time. Will switch to finer 60/90 grit sometime this week. And (hopefully) rapidly progress through the grits to polish.
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meviva
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Post by meviva on Nov 6, 2016 10:55:11 GMT -5
Lookin good. Looking forward to seeing the results.
Andrea
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 12:09:27 GMT -5
Left at 10AM, arrived at 7AM, took a 1 hour cat nap. Drained and jaded. Cold here(40F morning). Desk stacked high w/duties, <sigh>.
How will you do the finish steps ? Add fillers or run the batch as is ? That is a fine bunch of Rio's. Hope what we collected look that good. I believe you said your Thumper runs at 19 RPM, sure nuff getting some rounding. 19 may be the ticket to doing 5# !!!!. Add other big rocks in same batch. Slow speed has little effect on those 2 day grit changes. It is the weight of those big rocks speeding things up judging from your wear rate. Be sure to let them dry out well and check for frost damage on the pointed areas.
Like that slow speed for those biggins mixed together.
That stone canyon
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Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2016 12:19:26 GMT -5
Glad to see you made it home safely. May add ceramics in later stages, even plastic beads to polish. Always have, but haven't decided as this is kinda an experiment. ETA: Even harder figuring out your drive time. Not only time zone change, you also has clocks move back an hour to standard time.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 6, 2016 12:20:43 GMT -5
Really liking the jumbo tumbles. Fun to watch the progress and can't wait to see some of the new ones from your trip all finished up....Mel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 18:12:57 GMT -5
Glad to see you made it home safely. May add ceramics in later stages, even plastic beads to polish. Always have, but haven't decided as this is kinda an experiment. ETA: Even harder figuring out your drive time. Not only time zone change, you also has clocks move back an hour to standard time. The time calcs were no problem. Used the manual clock in the car. Texas time/savings time/all times no concern, used Honda time. Of course, sun time = no. 1 time for the Texas rock hunters. Ceramics/beads/small media sounding like the way. A 5 pound rock is giant for tumbling process. Will you run the 5 pounder with say the big stone canyon ? I like your octahedron barrel too, I believe they are gentler than round.
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Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2016 18:37:38 GMT -5
I pulled the big Rio out after a week and put the Stone Canyon in its place. May deal with the big Rio later, but it wasn't progressing fast enough for me.
Odd thing, I was am running a batch of bigger rocks (more Stone canyon) in my 12 lb tumbler. It has soft sides and the 30 grit doesn't break down well. I had it running while we were in Texas, and the 30 grit didn't break down all the way in 15 or so days. The 30 grit is still about the same as new 60/90 after running all that time. Thinking it must be the soft rubber sides of that 12 lb barrel.
Scored a nice Craigslist deal today! Picked up a 10" Raytech auto feed saw, a 15 inch flat lap with all kinds of pads and whatever they are called for grinding, two 8" Poly arbors - one with SiC wheels, one with expanding drums (No hoods), and some double barrel tumbler - I think they are 6 lb Lortone barrels. All for $150 < happy dance >
Will post pics tomorrow, it's dark now.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 6, 2016 19:02:50 GMT -5
captbob jamespRemember this exchange from the large rock experiment thread. I argued the same about the rubber barrel affecting the 30 grit breakdown. 46/70 much better in the rubber Lortone barrels, it breaks down in about 4-5 days in the 12 pounder. captbob said:Interesting. Speedy progress for sure. Gonna cut your electric bill. How much do you figure that your PVC barrel adds to how quickly the SiC 30 is breaking down? You think the 30 would break down nearly as fast in a lined barrel? Kinda like mortar and pestle action for that grit being pulverized between the PVC and a large rock. Gonna be a nice rock! Wanna see the snowflake. James said: PVC ain't got a thing to do with it captbob. Slurry way to thick for the barrel to have any impact whatsoever. It is that big rock grinding the crap out of itself and the rest of the tumbles. Bearing down hard. Unlike 1 inch tumbles can do. I don't hear, and don't want to hear any banging. Just sliding. The muddy slurry sucks those rocks together and increases the grind rate. Convinced of that. Cohesive forces 101. I don't like the snowflake. It polished fair. But it was a crappy rock to begin with due to pits and tons of micro bubbles. Whereas the harder crazy lace took a brilliant polish just like this bloodstone will. Taking bets on that. Stick with Mohs 7. The rhyolite is looking good in the vibe, even it at Mohs 6 may not shine up like the Mohs 7 stuff. GarageRocker said: I think the barrel material has to have some bearing on the grit breakdown. Just like the grit gets caught between rocks to break down, it has to do the same with the barrel, regardless of slurry thickness. If not, then the slurry would be keeping the rocks from grinding the grit between them too. Just my opinion, based on what I see in my rubber barrels. I have some hefty rocks in there, not quite the 2 pound type, but larger than I usually tumble, and the Sic 30 is not breaking down completely after a week. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/76227/next-tumble-wood-pounds-shine#ixzz4PHBVL5KS
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 19:38:21 GMT -5
This was the reason I started using slurry thickeners: I would run fresh coral that has a thick soft coating with 30 grit with no problem. Slurry got thick in 24 hours grinding the thick lime coating off. Grit broke quickly. After the thick coating was worn off my 30 grit would run for days and not break down. Sometimes, sometimes not. Had a watery slurry. Because there was no more soft lime being ground off. Watery slurry may wash he grit down. May not. Thickened slurry rarely has that problem. It was the coral and that thick soft coating that revealed the benefit of thick slurry with heavy grit like 16 and 30, and even 8 grit. That is why I said it had nothing to do with the PVC barrels. I had the same problem with the hard barrels. They would roll for weeks and the grit would never break down. The thick slurry is a big help in moving the heavier grit. Just the way it is. That is why they sell colloidal slurry thickeners, Georgia clay is felspar based colloidal clay and sold industrially for that purpose. Not necessarily for tumbling in all cases, also used to lift drill dredging when drilling a well. Well drillers all use thickened circulating fluid to raise the dredgings out of the hole because clean water will not lift the dredgings. "The main functions of drilling fluids include providing hydrostatic pressure to prevent formation fluids from entering into the well bore, keeping the drill bit cool and clean during drilling, carrying out drill cuttings, and suspending the drill cuttings while drilling is paused and when the drilling assembly is brought in and out of the hole. The drilling fluid used for a particular job is selected to avoid formation damage and to limit corrosion." Emphasis on 'carrying out drill cuttings" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drilling_fluid
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 19:47:52 GMT -5
Slurry dead important in abrasive operations. State of the art diamond abrasive slurries: "All of our slurries and suspensions are provided in a variety of standard abrasive sizes with a choice of three concentrations of abrasive particles in our proprietary Aqua- Pol, Petro-Pol and Uni-Pol carriers. The Aqua-Pol suspensions and slurries are water based and water soluble for easy clean up. Petro-Pol suspensions and slurries are oil based for applications that cannot tolerate the presence of water. Uni-Pol suspensions and slurries are made from a water soluble oil and so provide the finish associated with oil based diamond suspensions but are water soluble for easy clean up. The three levels of diamond concentration are; standard, strong and metallurgical. Each of the standard abrasive size selections has a particle size distribution tightly grouped around the nominated size to ensure a superior surface finish in use. Our slurries and suspensions are available in various container sizes ranging from 250ml (8 oz.) up to 19 liters (5 gallons)."
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 19:54:04 GMT -5
Rock tumbling companies don't want to complicate matters involving slurry thickeners so they sell 60-60/90-80. Because water will lift it and circulate it. Slow grinding, but works in water.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 6, 2016 20:06:01 GMT -5
I must defer to the guy who can get it to work for him. I know I didn't have luck. The good news is that I am pleased with the results I get from 46/70 and kitty litter. That tip has made my slurries better. We all settle on what works with what we've got available.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 6, 2016 20:32:15 GMT -5
I must defer to the guy who can get it to work for him. I know I didn't have luck. The good news is that I am pleased with the results I get from 46/70 and kitty litter. That tip has made my slurries better. We all settle on what works with what we've got available. There has been a movement to 46/70. And 30. I got really frustrated when the grit would not break and the rocks were not shaping. The coral's coating made a super slick velvety slurry in the beginning. It opened my eyes. I did research and it took me a long time to find out what a 'slurry thickener' was or that it even existed. I did have experience drilling wells and knew the process well. They called it drilling fluid thickeners and used bentonite clay. The concept is not necessarily accepted. Not many tumbling instructions say a word about thickeners. Cat litter may be a fine one, may not. I would guess there is a lot of different kitty litters. Kaolin is the leading thickening agent for inks, paints, make-up, mining slurries. And Georgia just happens to be world leader in kaolin mining and processing. I used to take dates in high school and college for mud bathes in the blinding white kaolin mines. Never knew I would be tumbling rocks in it. Kaolin mines are insane moonscapes. Freaky place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 22:27:05 GMT -5
Only one or two "kitty litter" mfg in the world. All the rest are very tócate label. The biggest, I am told by an employee, is in Victorville, CA. He is a customer and described dozens of train loads daily, in and out. All kaolin.
Not the definitive word. But good info nonetheless. Worked for me a few weeks earlier this year. Soon will be playing again.
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