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Post by captbob on Dec 10, 2016 13:13:52 GMT -5
I was just gonna PM John johnjsgems about this, but figured that his reply would better serve the community if he answered here. So... I'm well on my way to finishing up on refurbishing the Raytech 10" saw that I got off craigslist awhile back, and want to put a new blade on it. Just because. Anyway, do I go with the 301 or 303? No telling what will be cut, but figure some hard rocks will be in the mix. The Raytech LS10 has an autofeed or can be used as a trim saw. Did a search here, wasn't satisfied with search results. Interested in pros or cons for either. Either is a pretty inexpensive purchase, but 301 is like 35 bucks more than the 303 - why? Mr. John? Others with opinions? Thanks in advance.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 10, 2016 13:42:28 GMT -5
Hey Bob, I bought one of each my last time I got new blades. Both are really good blades but for me the 303C 10" by .050 proved to be the most durable, fastest cutting, and needed less dressing. Slabs come off almost lapped. The 301 is a notched rim type and cuts a little rougher and for me, needed to be dressed more often especially when cutting tough stuff like pet wood. Seemed to have more tendency to bog down and stop in the cut and worked less well with the really dirty oil I usually run ( I don't drain and clean my rig often cause the Covington's a pain in the ass to clean). I can't tell you how long the 301 would've lasted because I broke a rock that jammed the blade and wrecked it. The 303C is still going and still has diamond after hundreds of slabs. If I don't mess it up it looks like it will last till all the diamond is gone which never seems to happen for me with notched rim blades.
I don't know why the 301 costs more. Maybe more expensive to manufacture notched rim blades. I used to always buy them because you could send them in to Barranca and have them repaired and sharpened for $50 for my big 20 inch blades. Continuous rims could not be repaired. Now that this is no longer an issue, I think I'll stick with the 303C's.
As a side note, booth 10 inch blades were a bit too large in diameter for the precut slot the blade runs in on my Covington. Had to file the slot larger to accommodate the new blades and the 303C was even a bit bigger than the 301 was. No big deal but when you install the blade, make sure it turns freely in the slot before you turn on the saw motor.....Mel
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Post by captbob on Dec 10, 2016 14:32:07 GMT -5
Thanks for all the Mel. If I knew whether I was gonna keep the saw, I would probably get one of each to see which I preferred. Like hearing what you said about slabs cut with the 303 coming off almost lapped. Fewer saw blade marks is a plus for sure!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2016 17:58:41 GMT -5
I think you run a notched 15-20% faster than a continuos.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 10, 2016 19:10:34 GMT -5
Perhaps, My Covingtion would have to have a pulley wheel change to change speed as it only has one speed. I've never run notched at different speeds than continuous rim blades on all of my saws. If I'm remembering right, I think I did run my segmented rim 303S 20" blades faster though....Mel
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Post by catmandewe on Dec 10, 2016 22:29:31 GMT -5
301 has a a different core designed for harder materials and a higher diamond concentration 303 has a core designed for everyday use. Both will work but if you are only cutting hard agates like Montanas or Brazilians all the time the 301 is designed for that purpose specifically.
Tony
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Post by captbob on Dec 11, 2016 9:12:33 GMT -5
Thanks Tony, that makes sense on the higher cost of the 301.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612
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Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2016 10:07:33 GMT -5
Perhaps, My Covingtion would have to have a pulley wheel change to change speed as it only has one speed. I've never run notched at different speeds than continuous rim blades on all of my saws. If I'm remembering right, I think I did run my segmented rim 303S 20" blades faster though....Mel I bought a MK 303S 18 inch. The MK guy asked me saw brand and speed. He was intent on speeding up the segment over the continuous. Helped with(Covington) pulley speed calculations, said it would do some smooth cuts, better than the continuous blade supplied with the saw. He was right, never looked back, great results with 303S. Blade a bit thicker so fatter kerfs, but rigid and few saw marks. I believe he said the reason for increasing the speed was the segments reduced the amount of diamonds the rock would see and faster removal of mud.
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 15, 2016 14:34:01 GMT -5
If you check BD blade speed charts the 303's run a little faster than the old notched rim blades. The "301" on their charts are the old red notched rims. Run the new 301's at same speed as 303's. Don't remember specific speeds but I think 10" is something like 2000-2200 and old blades were 1200-1725. The 301 has a rim about 20%-25% taller than the 303C. More diamond/matrix equals higher cost. In my experience the 301 cuts really hard agate a little better than 303C. Both blades with slow feed will give a very smooth cut.
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Post by captbob on Dec 15, 2016 14:46:39 GMT -5
Guess you haven't checked your inbox yet today? Just bought the 303c from you a few hours ago.
The 301 cuts as smoothly as the 303? You recommend the 301 over the 303?
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,723
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 16, 2016 11:05:19 GMT -5
I bought both,but cut with the 303 more than the 301.......At least with bigger harder material,I will switch out the blade to save on the other one.....
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 16, 2016 14:21:25 GMT -5
ob, I had your order ready to ship before reading tis post yesterday. Figured it was you after reading here. I started using 303C blades years before I became a dealer. I used the green blades I bought from a show dealer for a really low price. Last one I bought was so warped it would not run true but he may have been selling seconds. I bought (yikes! full list price)from Diamond Pacific an MK303C. It cut so well (both fast and smooth) I never bought another Chinese blade. When Barranca abandoned making the old notch rim blades they had the same Korean factory making the 303 blades make the new 301. I think they wanted the notched rim look of the old 301 blades and had the tooling made to cast the rim with "wedge shaped notch like segments"cast in the otherwise similar rim as the 303C. They made it about 25% taller as well. When they told me it worked even better than the 303C I said no way. I tried it on my MK101 3200 rpm tile saw and became a believer. Cuts agate like a meat slicer but dulls quickly at that speed (both rpm and heavy handed feeding). I've heard of a couple of cases where saws stalled out cutting really hard material with 303C but cut through with 301. In fairness I have not tried a 303C on either my MK101 or my Cut Above saw (both turn around 3200 rpm). I did a lot of hand cutting back in the day with a .032" 303C on my old Frantom. I have a customer that cuts jade on his cut above saw with a .032" 303C and he says other than wanting to deflect from the thin core it cuts very well. Most of the clubs I sell to are using the .040" 303C you ordered. The thick core stands up to abusive club members and cut is very smooth. I think you will be happy with it.
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Post by deb193redux on Jan 3, 2017 23:29:19 GMT -5
I always liked 303C over 301. In my Lortone LS10, the 303C just seems to do better.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 4, 2017 13:24:30 GMT -5
Daniel, when people ask I always tell them everyone that tried both buys the 301 except one guy. Guess who? There are people that prefer 303C blades on trim saws. I've heard a couple people say the notches on the 301 pick up more coolant so messier to trim with. Can't say as I only use the 301 on my tile saw. I didn't notice a difference between 305 and 301 on my drop saw except extra thickness on 305 trims slabs slower.
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Post by captbob on Jan 4, 2017 15:31:41 GMT -5
Daniel, when people ask I always tell them everyone that tried both buys the 301 except one guy. Guess who? Well, I did order before you replied on this thread. Went with the recommendation that the 303 gives a nicer finished looking cut. Probably doesn't matter much as I will most likely sell the saw it is going on. Just wanted a new (quality) blade on it.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 4, 2017 19:55:59 GMT -5
Both blades use same high carbon tool steel core and same diamond grit. You will be happy with the cut. I would not spend the extra money on a 301 for someone else' saw. On used saws I sell they get a Green Chinese blade.
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