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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 21:28:45 GMT -5
The one operating the on/off switch? In this house? Yes. Your mileage may vary. I don't judge!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 25, 2016 22:22:01 GMT -5
5/8 shaft is what I have so that is what I plan to use . Like you said James , big variety of blades , wheels ,etc. Well, to chuck up saw blades and have them drilled/bored to 1" may be costly. Most machine shops around here won't look at you for less than $50. I would suggest getting a quote. The variety of blades and cutters may be a good option. Consider 1/3 or even 1/2 HP. 1/4 HP with 4-5 inch wheels OK at 2200 RPM. 1/4 HP is weak at 2200 RPM with 7 inch cutters. Motor slows down easy. Alternative is slow it down to 1200-1500 RPM for more torque which is perfectly fine. Just slower production. I still find it hard to believe tile blades or saw blades are going to last. I have used good segmented single blades on a tile saw and am not impressed with their longevity. Where as diamond cups are made for extreme pressure, way higher RPM and dry operation if desired. They last longer being wet of course. Even the segments are often mounted on aluminum backers for heat dissipation. Grinding hard Mohs 7 materials for tumbling requires a lot of pressure and elevated speed sure helps. To get any production. Last time I ground 8 pounds of Mohs 7 rocks for a tumbler it added up to 3 hours hard bench time. I don't see saw blades holding up IMO. I said my piece. Not being argumentative but throwing my 2 cents in. I feel certain that these two rocks would have ruined the 7 inch saw blade party in short order. The coral is hard, but the Sumatra Flame ?? is the hardest agate I ever touched to a diamond wheel. Montana and Brazil type agates up at the top too. Moss agates with high chalcedony content. www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/sets/72157678297334215Marble, granite, rhyolite, obsidian, most jaspers are butter. No problem. Not the easiest to tumble either.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 25, 2016 22:52:48 GMT -5
The grinder I have has 5/8 shaft and most tile blades are 5/8 so I wouldn't need to have them bored out . I have a 4 1/2" blade on a rock rascal and it grinds real good but cuts like crap . It is just single blade so grinding is pretty limited do to width of blade . The edge grinds a ton faster than the sides of the blade . As for a stack of blades outlasting a grinding wheel like you showed , I would have to agree with you and say the blades probably wouldn't . But with my arbor size , a stack would be simplest to get running . Stack them on , turn on water and grind . I'm a small to not much operation so I think the blades will last a while for me . I plan on 1/3 hp and if that isn't enough , have couple 3/4 hp motors to use . Hope I don't have to say , should have listened to James using stacked blades . I'll guinea pig for the sake of the forum .
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 25, 2016 23:10:52 GMT -5
The grinder I have has 5/8 shaft and most tile blades are 5/8 so I wouldn't need to have them bored out . I have a 4 1/2" blade on a rock rascal and it grinds real good but cuts like crap . It is just single blade so grinding is pretty limited do to width of blade . The edge grinds a ton faster than the sides of the blade . As for a stack of blades outlasting a grinding wheel like you showed , I would have to agree with you and say the blades probably wouldn't . But with my arbor size , a stack would be simplest to get running . Stack them on , turn on water and grind . I'm a small to not much operation so I think the blades will last a while for me . I plan on 1/3 hp and if that isn't enough , have couple 3/4 hp motors to use . Hope I don't have to say , should have listened to James using stacked blades . I'll guinea pig for the sake of the forum . Stacked blades or cups or whatever is a big improvement over any alternative. I slapped my rig together a good while back and got something up and running. Have logged many hours on it. Have a half a dozen various diamond cutting heads. Found myself addicted to grinding rocks for the tumbler. Favorite lapidary pastime is tumbling pre-ground rocks. Hard sintering and the biggest diamonds possible (20 and 30 grit) gets the job done without fatiguing your hands so much. I have a 100 grit diamond wheel that would take forever to do a single 2 inch tumble. Diamond size means everything for coarse shaping.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 26, 2016 0:08:48 GMT -5
I have read most if not all the super grinder threads and think that would be the most cost effective way for me to get grinding , for now anyway . From what the stacked blade users are saying , I think its worth a try . I'm tired of rolling rocks for what seems to be a couple years before tossing them in the vibe . This whole new world of cutting and grinding just opened up for me a few months ago , so anything is going to be better than what I have been using . The little wheel on the end of one of my rock rascals is almost gone so its time to upgrade . I guess the real reason for starting this thread was to get opinions on continuous vs grooved edge turbo style blades . From the feedback , seems to be just a matter of personal preference . So I plan to get something going by spring .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 0:12:22 GMT -5
Your experiences are far greater than any of us. No intent to argue here. At all.
I simply have confidence they work well, cheaply, quickly, due to classroom experience. If life ever gets out of my way I will build that super grinder. Time will tell.
We need to learn how to quantify performance.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 26, 2016 0:21:58 GMT -5
Your experiences are far greater than any of us. No intent to argue here. At all. I simply have confidence they work well, cheaply, quickly, due to classroom experience. If life ever gets out of my way I will build that super grinder. Time will tell. We need to learn how to quantify performance. You must be talking of James experiences , I am just trying to gain some experience . And I am not here to argue with one of the true tumble masters either .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 0:46:42 GMT -5
Your experiences are far greater than any of us. No intent to argue here. At all. I simply have confidence they work well, cheaply, quickly, due to classroom experience. If life ever gets out of my way I will build that super grinder. Time will tell. We need to learn how to quantify performance. You must be talking of James experiences , I am just trying to gain some experience . And I am not here to argue with one of the true tumble masters either . Exactly. Well said. Make your machine and make a thread to follow performance. I intend to do the same. Have fun wiggle and stay safe!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 1:06:39 GMT -5
The start of my grinder was finding an 18 inch long 5/8" bolt. Just so happened an existing 4" diamond cup wheel threaded on it. eureka I knew I had four 5/8" bearings laying around. Some 2" X 10" boards, a 1/4HP motor and pulleys that fit such sizes.
It was a 6 hour project and just fell together quick and easy the same day it was conceived. No planning or effort.
I had a 3600 RPM wet grinder clamped down upside down. It was too fast and somewhat exposed and dangerous. New rig slower and way safer. Main complaint is it is hard to run wet.
Ended up being most used lapidary machine other than tumblers.
Am anxious to see other variations. Glad to see other grinders and thought going into these grinders.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 6:59:22 GMT -5
@shotgunner
Funny thing about diamond sintering. The big saws that run in oil are way thrifty. An 18 inch Covington saw has spit out many 5 gallon buckets of rock mud. Many buckets of mud with only slight wear on the saw blade(so minimal diamond segment wear). Point being is increased rate of removal is related to speed and pressure. And cooling/lubrication of course. But that slow feed and oil is what makes those diamond sinterings on the rock saw blade last so long.
No solution to a slow feed on a super grinder. Would be nice to have a robot to program the grind. A robot that maintained a slow feed rate. Way slower feed than any human would want to hold the rock against the cutter. I am pretty sure the overseas boys are doing their lapidary grinding with CNC machines. Their skulls and other shapes made of imported dyed Brazilian agate all look machine cut. Cookie cut.
And it would be nice to have the bottom of the wheel sitting in water like a rock saw does. Which would take some extreme water management baffles and containment.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 7:28:41 GMT -5
Just ordered this 5" tuck point wheel for $32 PPD. Combo 5/8 and 7/8 hole. Ebay May be soft, at that price no biggy. The bulk of material removal is often done by leveraging the rock up against the bottom edge at the corner of the diamonds with palms planted on deck. Segments 10mm deep and 5-6mm wide ? Never tried one. Called a 'tuck point', segments mounted on heavy plate Typical dimensions: 5" Premium Plus Split Segment Tuck Pointing Blade .250" Thick 10mm Segment Height 7/8"-5/8" Arbor Extremely Fast and Aggressive Use Wet or Dry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 7:38:13 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Dec 26, 2016 7:43:24 GMT -5
I built one out of 5 inch blades, a mixture of continuous and slotted rim, nine blades in all, I could buy 3 packs of these blades quite cheaply, so I bought 3 packs of 3. I found my spacing is a bit wide for tumbling material it chews through the rock but leaves ridges which take a while to grind away, the space is probably about a sixteenth so is quite a thick ridge. I just feed water on top, it needs several nozzles or a wide slotted nozzle as the gaps don't allow the water to spread across the width of the grinding surface. I made a "drip spreader" out of old credit cards. The tywraps work best doubled with the spaces down to act as a dam with multiple outlets.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 7:46:39 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Dec 26, 2016 8:12:09 GMT -5
It seems to me that the optimum super grinder would have two stacked wheel sets. One with spacers for rapid grind,
one without spacers for smoothing stones after the first grind - like the old 100 grit and 220 grit wheels.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 8:29:07 GMT -5
It seems to me that the optimum super grinder would have two stacked wheel sets. One with spacers for rapid grind, one without spacers for smoothing stones after the first grind - like the old 100 grit and 220 grit wheels. Stacking blades and leaving a gap has got to be fast material removal by way of chipping and breaking of material between blades. Having the 'finisher' next door on the same axle makes perfect sense.
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Post by captbob on Dec 26, 2016 9:38:14 GMT -5
Just ordered this 5" tuck point wheel for $32 PPD. Combo 5/8 and 7/8 hole. Ebay Interested to hear how this stands up to hard rocks. A set of several of these together on one side of an arbor with "normal" lapidary saw blades ganged together on the other side might be the ticket.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 26, 2016 9:52:15 GMT -5
Diamonds may be soft for this masonry bit captbob. Can never tell the hardness of sintering. Darn suppliers say 'rated for granite' and they fluctuate a lot in hardness and diamond size. The hardest sintering I ever found was the el cheapo Harbor Freight 4" and 7" diamond cups. Actually every diamond cup I tried rated for granite had hard sintering. Diablo was one of the brands.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 12:52:35 GMT -5
I built one out of 5 inch blades, a mixture of continuous and slotted rim, nine blades in all, I could buy 3 packs of these blades quite cheaply, so I bought 3 packs of 3. I found my spacing is a bit wide for tumbling material it chews through the rock but leaves ridges which take a while to grind away, the space is probably about a sixteenth so is quite a thick ridge. I just feed water on top, it needs several nozzles or a wide slotted nozzle as the gaps don't allow the water to spread across the width of the grinding surface. I made a "drip spreader" out of old credit cards. The tywraps work best doubled with the spaces down to act as a dam with multiple outlets. How are these parts assembled? Solvent glue? I love the concept. The ridges in the tywrap allow spaced dripping?
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Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 26, 2016 13:35:12 GMT -5
@shotgunner And it would be nice to have the bottom of the wheel sitting in water like a rock saw does. Which would take some extreme water management baffles and containment. Running the stack is something I have thought of trying . Baffles to keep it from being like a tile saw type water bath would be even more necessary with a stack on it . I think it is doable though .
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