osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 15, 2017 9:33:42 GMT -5
After a little over 3 weeks of tumbling in my QT66 with SiC 60/90, I got enough material to do my first run in my Loto. Instead of doing the normal 120/220, 500, 1000, and polish, I decided to go with AO 80 for 2-3 days and then polish that jamesp has been doing. I went with a little less than a tablespoon of AO 80 and the same amount of borax. It had been running for about 12 hours when I woke up this morning and the action had slowed down some and the slurry had a sticky consistency. I put a couple squirts of water from a spray bottle and got it back to a nice rolling action, with a creamier consistency. I also noticed that the "hum" of the Loto was louder this morning when I woke up but after I added a little water, it quieted down. My wife said the low pitched "hum" is mildly annoying, I hope she gets used to it...LOL.
This evening I will pull a couple rocks and post a couple pictures. I will do this over the next couple days to show the progress.
Jake
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Jan 15, 2017 11:01:59 GMT -5
It won't take long and the annoying turns into anticipating when the pretty rocks start coming out .
|
|
|
Post by tims on Jan 15, 2017 22:08:24 GMT -5
Curious to see your results as i'm planning to try the same method once i get enough through the rotary to fill up my big vibe. If your wife is perturbed by the lotto hum i could send you a recording of my viking rattling the windows to put things in perspective
|
|
|
Post by MrMike on Jan 16, 2017 5:17:22 GMT -5
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 16, 2017 15:58:16 GMT -5
Meant to post last night but caught up in drinking beer and watching football. I pulled a few rocks out when I got home from work today and cleaned them up, these have been in the AO 80 about 2 days. I am gonna let the batch run until tomorrow afternoon and then switch them to polish. Hopefully they will be done Wednesday. Jake
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 16, 2017 16:45:15 GMT -5
I wanted to see more polish after 2 days Jake. May just be early.
I use a Viking vibe and I believe it is a bit move aggressive than a Lot-O as it bruises softer rocks like obsidian and sometimes crystalline quartz.
But that is about how my rocks looked in the rotary with AO 80 after 10 days. And they went directly to AO 14,000 polish in the vibe to a liquid.
I only run agates and Mohs 7 hardness rocks, hope you are too.
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 16, 2017 18:38:28 GMT -5
I am encouraged though...thats usually what my rocks looks like after they come out of 500 in my rotary. It only took 2 days instead of 2 weeks which is a huge bonus. I am gonna move to AO 14,000 tomorrow. When I do the clean out I will see if there are any difference in the polish on these rocks after they run for an extra day. Might just take a tweak or 2 and running a few more batches to hone in on the sweet spot.
Jake
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 16, 2017 20:27:55 GMT -5
I watched a few videos of others people action and the consistency of their grit and my grit may have been too thick. I thinned it out some so that it still coated the rocks but wasn't caked on. The thickness was probably on par with pancake batter prior to adding more water. Hopefully this was a proper adjustment.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 16, 2017 22:25:56 GMT -5
I watched a few videos of others people action and the consistency of their grit and my grit may have been too thick. I thinned it out some so that it still coated the rocks but wasn't caked on. The thickness was probably on par with pancake batter prior to adding more water. Hopefully this was a proper adjustment. I run the AO 80 fairly wet. Never with a puddle in the bottom of hopper though. The rocks have a wet gloss for sure. Not creamy or pasty. Hope that helps. Guessing your Lot-O has a gentler action. You may want to let the AO 80 run 3 days. The Viking vibe has a fine polish after 2 days. But I think it is a very powerful machine with 1/3 HP. If the Viking gets creamy/pasty the rolling action of the rocks slows way down regardless of 1/3 HP. This slow down seems to greatly slow the polish time. Wetter speeds the rolling action. Here is a video of the Vikings consistency with Borax:
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 18, 2017 6:26:32 GMT -5
jamespYeah, mine was too thick for sure. I have thinned it way down from what it was a couple days ago. After work today I am gonna clean it out and I will take a couple pictures and then i am gonna move on to polish. It will have been 4 days when I clean out today. Probably didn't need the extra day but I wasn't able to get to it yesterday. Thanks for the video, gave me a great idea of what I am looking for. Jake
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 18, 2017 10:15:12 GMT -5
Rotary:
Using the AO 80 in the rotary after coarse SIC in the rotary for 10-12 days was an apples for apples run because my rotary's were running at average factory tumbler speeds and 7 pounds of rock. Most any rotary should do well with the AO 80 to replace 220-500-1000. No funky slurry or tricks. I was not impressed with the 10 day polish in rotary run with AO 80 or AO 22. But the rock in my avatar was run 10 days in AO 22 coming out with a dull polish and after 18 hours in 14,000 was a real shiner. Others did exact same, AO 80 or AO 22. Wet shines with a short run of 14,000 in the vibe, all other steps done in the rotary.
Vibe:
Having only a Viking vibe that appears to be aggressive may not be apples for apples with a Lot-O. So you using AO 80 in the Lot-O is new territory. A Lot-O can polish obsidian and rhyolite, must be gentle. If you get a wet shine using 14,000 in the Lot-O then all is well.
Any way, I do run my Viking with 30-50% smalls like pea gravel and slightly larger for best results. After 24 hours the AO 80 has laid down a decent polish running on the wet side with Borax using the(aggressive) Viking. after 48 - 72 a nice polish, easily ready for 14,000. 2 tablespoons AO 80 and 2 tablespoons Borax for 14 pounds of rock. Not good to overdose with either ingredient, so proportion doses to Lot-O's 4.5 pounds.
ETA Just a side note, if I run 14,000 in the Viking longer than one day I start to loose polish. If I run 18 to 24 hours I get a fine polish. Longer not better-go figure ? I would guess 2 days for polish may be better for the(gentler) Lot-O. The Viking can be adjusted gentler but I have separation issues when run gentle, big rocks separate from small rocks-not good. I am forced to run hard Mohs 7 rocks and at an aggressive vibration to maintain equal mixing.
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 18, 2017 17:17:22 GMT -5
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 20, 2017 2:32:02 GMT -5
The final test is the polish run. If they come out with a wet shine.... since surface HAS to be prepped well for that to happen, no choice in that matter.
I can not help you with the effects of running AO 80 on the dry side. Don't know if that is a hindrance or a help. No answers for that one.
I will say these rocks seem(lighting and reflections often hard to read) shinier than 10 days in the rotary with AO 80 and they took a killer shine going direct to AO 14,000 polish in the vibe.
Instead of buzzing out your vibe for 4 days(if that is what it takes) you may consider the lazy rotary run for 10 days for the AO 80. 220-500-1000 in ten days with no clean outs, not a bad alternative. As mentioned, the Lot-O seems to be gentle and works well with finishing/polishing soft stones.
I see your group photo. Are you running any smalls or ceramic media with those ? Just saying, I would run 30% smalls with those in the vibe to benefit finish.
|
|
vera
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
Posts: 259
|
Post by vera on Jan 20, 2017 16:38:34 GMT -5
That blue and white rock is gorgeous. I can hardly wait to see it highly polished.
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 21, 2017 17:33:08 GMT -5
My first batch in the Loto finished up today. It should have finished yesterday but I didn't get home until late last night so I pulled it this morning. I was pretty pleased with how they came out. I am not sure that my pictures do them justice. They all have a real nice shine, much better than what I get out of my rotary. The lighting in my house is awful, all of our ceiling lights have covers and it makes pictures look yellow. When I can't take them outside, I might have to start taking pictures in my basement under the florescent work lights. Quick recap: 3 weeks in rotary with 60/90 4 days in Loto, 1 tablespoon AO 80 + 1 tablespoon Borax 3 days in Loto, 1/2 teaspoon AO 14,000 + 1 tablespoon Borax Group photo Picture Jasper, a few pieces from the 3 lbs that came for the tumbling contest A couple other Picture Jasper from the same box. This stuff is not gonna be easy to work with. The stuff above took a shine, these ones did not A piece of Blue Quartz from the rock shed that is pictured above. I don't know if i like this material, some shines up really nice and other pieces seem to undercut and bruise bad. Material from txrockhunter #6 #7 #8. I really like this material, not sure what it is though #9 #10 #11 #12 Some banded Amethyst from the rockshed Thanks for looking. I will be cleaning out my QT66 tomorrow but probably won't have any material for the Loto for at least another week. Jake
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Jan 21, 2017 19:36:52 GMT -5
Nice looking bunch there . #7 is crazy
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 21, 2017 20:23:01 GMT -5
Those look good, Jake. I'm intrigued by the experiment with the 80 grit. I look forward to seeing your next batch.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2017 7:19:27 GMT -5
Looks like you fared well Jake. Congrats
If you are bruising amethyst and blue quartz in the vibe consider smalls if you are not already using them. Running AO 80 in the rotary requires nothing other than a good mix of rock sizes in the Mohs 7 hardness range and run time ~ 10-12 days. Longer than 10-12 days is fine, helps get closer to finish.
You can run some blue quartz or amethyst with agates in the vibe as test samples. If it bruises then your polish may suffer. Bruises on those is hinting at adding more smalls and/or slurry adjustment. I have to run at least 50% smalls in the vibe to avoid bruises on blue quartz and amethyst. Much less for agates if any if a good size mix.
|
|
osuguy0301
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2015
Posts: 203
|
Post by osuguy0301 on Jan 22, 2017 7:30:33 GMT -5
jamespI definitely need to run more smalls in my next batch. My smalls were probably only about 10-15% and thats my fault because I knew better than that. Those blue quartz that bruised I am gonna send back to the coarse grind. I have a whole bunch of shards and slivers that I keep from when I break rocks. I am thinking about running a 120/220 in my loto with them and some other rocks to get myself a good amount of smalls to use. Thanks for your help and guidance. Jake
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
|
Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2017 8:04:36 GMT -5
jamespI definitely need to run more smalls in my next batch. My smalls were probably only about 10-15% and thats my fault because I knew better than that. Those blue quartz that bruised I am gonna send back to the coarse grind. I have a whole bunch of shards and slivers that I keep from when I break rocks. I am thinking about running a 120/220 in my loto with them and some other rocks to get myself a good amount of smalls to use. Thanks for your help and guidance. Jake My smalls are a treasured pile. They have been run thru the vibe probably 20 times. Reused over and over. Soft, sharp and cracked rocks hand picked out over time. I have two sets of smalls, pea sized and 3/4" smalls. The 3/4" smalls are run when running 2 inch rocks and bigger in vibe. A good way to make smalls is add 20% small pieces in with a regular coarse tumble in the rotary to shape them quicker. They shape slow for me. In fact, this time I had a bunch of 3/16 to 1/4 inch hard agate slabs. I took a hammer and laid the slabs on a board and broke them into pea sized pieces. Tumbling flat faced slab parts is quicker and makes cleaner smalls. They will be pretty smalls ha. Nothing wrong with pretty smalls.
|
|