quartz
Cave Dweller 
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on May 15, 2017 23:41:56 GMT -5
The release handle "in the above picture" is the round rod in the right front corner of the tub, it acts on a split nut on the feed screw.
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Post by Rockoonz on May 16, 2017 0:16:27 GMT -5
I use shafting or drill rod when I replace rails, depending on whether I go oversize.
Unless you're thinking of using water based cutting oil (not recommended) I wouldn't go stainless.
I suppose nylon bushings would help, but I would use bronze. Delrin might hold up too.
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116 
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Post by zapins on May 16, 2017 18:06:20 GMT -5
I think bushings are going to be a must. I read on this forum (http://gemstone.smfforfree4.com/index.php?topic=17988.0) that their old Royal rock saw developed a lot of wear on the carriage and has 1/4" of slop on the ways. Is this the kind of drill rod that will work? It is O1 multipurpose tool steel (drill rod) with a current hardness of "Hardness: Medium (Rockwell B89)" and ground to a tolerance of 0.0005" www.mcmaster.com/#drill-rods/=17nor29Will these bronze bushings work? They are oil permeated to help lubricate them. www.mcmaster.com/#bronze-sleeve-bearings/=17nosh7I can also pour and lathe some silicon bronze bushings or alloy my own tin bronze if that is necessary and would work better. Shouldn't be a problem, I can't see the bushings in the upper photo from the angle it is taken at but I'm sure they would be a good idea long term. I will PM es355lucille and see if he has any more photos of his saw & vice. quartz - I see the release handle for the entire carriage from the feed screw, but don't see the release for the vice jaw leading to the hand crank. Something that I've noticed is there are very few photos on the internet of saws from all the critical angles that you need to see in order to figure out how it was made. I've pieced together a decent little collection but it is still surprising how few photos there are. Especially of vices. I'll see if I can PM |
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Post by Rockoonz on May 16, 2017 22:55:25 GMT -5
The 01 rod and oiled bronze bushings are perfect, exactly what I used for a FranTom a while back.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on May 16, 2017 23:59:01 GMT -5
There is no release for the vice jaw, crank it tight, cut, crank it loose.
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on May 17, 2017 1:22:08 GMT -5
Hmm ok. Great. Did you use the O1 drill rod as it came or did you harden it?
Do you think I need to use larger than 1" drill rod just to be sure it won't bow the rail in the worst case scenario with a 100-200 lb vice and 1-200 lb rock?
quartz - ok I see. That makes sense. Couldn't see the quick release on the vice thread because it wasn't there! Haha.
Last part of what I still need to figure out is how to fix the threaded rod into the vice (the locking part to secure it in place). Then I'll go ahead and put an order in for all the metal plates and see about welding it up.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on May 17, 2017 22:45:35 GMT -5
The vice screw on both my Royal saws runs through a steel block drilled and tapped for the vice screw and welded to the bottom of the movable jaw. As you can see in the picture you put up, the outer end of the screw near the handle has a fat washer welded on the outside of the frame, and a set collar on the inside. Mine have two set collars.
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on May 18, 2017 15:40:21 GMT -5
Rockoonz - I'm going to put the order in for materials soon, but before I do, did you use the O1 drill rod as it came or did you harden it?
Do you think I need to use larger than 1" drill rod just to be sure it won't bow the rail in the worst case scenario with a 100-200 lb vice and 1-200 lb rock? Or is the 1" stuff stiff enough not to bend?
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Post by Rockoonz on May 18, 2017 22:25:56 GMT -5
Rockoonz - I'm going to put the order in for materials soon, but before I do, did you use the O1 drill rod as it came or did you harden it? Do you think I need to use larger than 1" drill rod just to be sure it won't bow the rail in the worst case scenario with a 100-200 lb vice and 1-200 lb rock? Or is the 1" stuff stiff enough not to bend? No need to harden, and if you do then you might have to straighten it. My FranTom has 1.25" rails. I suppose 1" might spring a little with a big load, especially if your tub is long like the FranTom. I think Barranca uses 1.5" rod, but I'm not positive on that. Sorry for the slow response, I'm spending less time on the forum lately. |
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on May 19, 2017 0:02:50 GMT -5
No problem, thanks for the replies you, quartz and the others have been really helpful. I'll look into buying 1.5" dia O1 drill rod then for the rail that is closest to the blade, and probably 1" for the farther away rail since it won't carry as much weight. Will be cheaper that way too.
I'm figuring out the lid opening mechanism and then I'll go through and design the vice and carriage.
I'll definitely use the rails through the plate steel, and use bronze bearings to keep it centered, but I might use a plate with holes drilled to attach the vice jaw instead of the threaded rod like in the Royal saw. Still haven't decided yet. Anyone who has seen/used both kinds have a preference?
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on May 20, 2017 2:28:27 GMT -5
Quick question. How wide should the vice be? How wide should I space the rails? Does this matter or will roughly 12-14" wide work ok?
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Post by Rockoonz on May 20, 2017 17:47:02 GMT -5
Personally I'm not a big fan of wider vices, rather have more side to side travel to be able to cut more slabs without having to re-clamp the rock.
Geometry tells me rails wider apart is better, but when it's time to clean the saw...
My FranTom 24 inch saw vice is 10" wide on rails that are on 8 inch centers
Nelson 12" saw has a 3 1/2 inch wide vice on rails on 6 inch centers
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on May 29, 2017 17:55:31 GMT -5
How tall should the jaws of the vice be? is 8" enough or should I make them taller to hold larger rocks?
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Post by Rockoonz on May 30, 2017 23:43:57 GMT -5
8" would be perfect, you wouldn't want to go much taller than that on a 24 anyway.
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on Jun 8, 2017 16:33:10 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:48:08 GMT -5
Not an engineer, so no real input. I do and am cutting rocks now. I just cut a stone that was nearly every inch of blade height. That said, I don't think you need full blade height on the vice. The stone will always be grabbed by the vice less than 2/3's of the blade height. Watching your skillful build patiently. Perhaps more patiently than you!  |
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 8, 2017 20:27:58 GMT -5
Not an engineer, so no real input. I do and am cutting rocks now. I just cut a stone that was nearly every inch of blade height. That said, I don't think you need full blade height on the vice. The stone will always be grabbed by the vice less than 2/3's of the blade height. Watching your skillful build patiently. Perhaps more patiently than you! I like full blade height because you never know what godawful contortions you might have to do to clamp some odd shaped rock to cut it in the best direction without losing any of it. Also. it acts as a guide to warn you if the rock is too big for the saw. I like the vice design, it'll cut a rock. |
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on Jun 8, 2017 22:54:15 GMT -5
Great. Thanks guys. Yeah I figured why not just have the vice go to the full blade height? Might as well it won't harm anything and as Rockoonz said - I'll use it as a guide to know when the rock is too big.
The only thing I'm really concerned about is that the space between the 2 bearings that hold the 9" wide drilled vice base are going to be about 4" apart. This seems like a small distance to me. Possible causing the vice to tilt with a heavy rock, or wear more on one set of bearings?
I'll be placing an order for the drill rods and many flanged linear bearings soon.
I'll probably end up casting the split nut inserts for the carriage out of Everdure silicon bronze in a couple of weeks. I can post photos of that if people are interested. I might even make a few of them so I don't have to bother making more of them when they wear out in the future.
At some point I'll assemble a new thread with many photos at every stage of the process, the plans (with any updates), and probably a few videos so other people can use my plans to make their own saws. I saw some guy on ebay selling plans for $60 a pop (sold ~230 of them), so who knows maybe someone will save some bucks with my plans? I certainly wish I had found free wet saw plans like mine 8+ months back...
I also plan to make a centrifugal oil cleaner for the mineral oil. Might get to that this summer, otherwise I'll update the forum with a new thread later on when its done. I have a pretty good idea how to do it using a torque converter from a car, a bit of welding, and a quick turn on my lathe. Shouldn't be too difficult. Lucky for me there is a local business that sells a wide variety of AC & DC motors in all kinds of HP ratings for cheap ($50-80 range) so it shouldn't cost me more than $200 total in materials.
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zapins
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 116
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Post by zapins on Jun 9, 2017 14:24:32 GMT -5
Went to the fabrication shop today to submit the vice plans. They parted the thing out and figured out that the vice and carriage are going to weigh 215 pounds since it is made of 1/2" thick plate. This seems heavy to me, but I figured that is probably similar to highland park's and convington's vice weights? Their carriages look like they are about 1/2" cast iron? I am a little concerned that the rails will bow slightly if I have that kind of weight on them plus the weight of the rock. That's anything up to 400 pounds of weight on the rails. Granted the rails are going to be 1.5" thick and made of drill rod but still... Oh well, I'll figure it out somehow. I picked up the shaft the shop machined for me. It really came out well, exactly like my diagram, can't wait to fit it in place. I had them make 2 of the same shaft for me in case it ever breaks I'm not left trying to find a place to make a replacement.  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 15:03:30 GMT -5
At least Covington's is aluminium.
Deflection over span for your material and diameter should be known. No?
ETA torque converter.... Hmmmm...
I like that!
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Nov 15, 2024 17:44:51 GMT -5
Nov 15, 2024 17:44:51 GMT -5
