nileriver
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Member since December 2016
Posts: 22
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Post by nileriver on Apr 16, 2017 10:53:07 GMT -5
Is there a way to get polish out of pits/cracks? I'd never had a problem with this when polishing in a rotary, I think due to it being a very wet process compared to a vibe. First time to use a vibe. Went to bed, thought I had it wet enough to make it until I got up the next day, but found it way too dry when I checked upon awakening. The finish on the rocks is great overall, but there are a lot of rocks that didn't even look fractured or pitted to the naked eye before that now have white specks and lines with polish in them. I'm thinking due to letting it get too dry? I did a soap burnish of a couple of hours, to no effect. I'm also wondering if it caused rocks to chip, pits to enlarge, and new fractures, because that definitely happened to a lot of the batch. The rocks were really looking good after the prepolish step. Now so many of them look worse. I mean, the overall polish is great, and the rocks that are completely flawless look awesome. But so many that seemed flawless before, at least to the naked eye, are disappointing. This never happened to me with the rotary. Are the vibes harder on rocks in general, or is it because I let it get too dry?
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Apr 16, 2017 12:52:19 GMT -5
I would try running them for an hour or so with some dish detergent then rinse them off really well afterwards.
During the brief time that I had a vibe tumbler I let my polish step run too dry and had a condition that sounds very similar to yours. I had to do three or four cycles of dish soap then rinse to get all the dried polish out of the cracks.
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nileriver
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Member since December 2016
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Post by nileriver on Apr 17, 2017 22:41:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the input richardh. I did run them in a burnish cycle with dish soap for a couple of hours after the polish stage. Sounds like it wasn't enough. I will try your advice.
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
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Post by ubermenehune on Apr 17, 2017 23:01:07 GMT -5
I use an ultrasonic cleaner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 1:49:39 GMT -5
I use an ultrasonic cleaner. *2
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 18, 2017 4:29:13 GMT -5
I have been running my Vibrasonic vibe wetter. So wet that it runs 3 days straight with out adding water. Both when running AO 80 for the 2-3 days needed and the AO 14,000 for 18 hours.
The AO 80 makes a nice creamy white slurry after the first day, about like Half and Half consistency. It continues to a consistency of heavy cream at day 2-3, still quite wet. So wet that it is glossy/shiny like water.
Not taking any chances on drying a vibe load with aluminum oxide. As it is not much different than portland cement when packed in rock crevices if it runs dry.
I have packed it in so dry and hard a pressure washer would not remove it. Have rerun them starting with coarse grit; a bad day.
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Post by youp50 on Apr 18, 2017 7:03:22 GMT -5
I am watching for the 'miracle cure'. I have a cool piece of teredo bored petrified wood from the Missouri River near Bismark. If I ever get resettled, I will post an image. I hired out the saw and polish. I never entertained the thought of cutting and polishing myself. By nature the rock is full of holes that retain the polish they used.
Not sure where I could hire an ultrasonic cleaner that large.
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nileriver
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2016
Posts: 22
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Post by nileriver on Apr 18, 2017 23:59:38 GMT -5
I'm don't know what an ultrasonic cleaner is....
I tried to wash them several times as richardh suggested. Like jamesp said, the stuff is in there like cement. Alas, they are back to the tumbler in coarse grind, except for maybe 20% of them, which are flawless, thus no cracks or pits for the polish to set up in. Hardly any of those rocks looked like they had any flaws after prepolish in the vibe. It seems that letting them go dry during polish really caused a lot of trauma, opened up cracks and pits that were not there before, and fractured the s**t out of so many of them. Really sick because I'm afraid I ruined a batch that was really looking good until then. I will do like jamesp and rum my vibe really wet going forward.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 5:16:39 GMT -5
I'm don't know what an ultrasonic cleaner is.... I tried to wash them several times as richardh suggested. Like jamesp said, the stuff is in there like cement. Alas, they are back to the tumbler in coarse grind, except for maybe 20% of them, which are flawless, thus no cracks or pits for the polish to set up in. Hardly any of those rocks looked like they had any flaws after prepolish in the vibe. It seems that letting them go dry during polish really caused a lot of trauma, opened up cracks and pits that were not there before, and fractured the s**t out of so many of them. Really sick because I'm afraid I ruined a batch that was really looking good until then. I will do like jamesp and rum my vibe really wet going forward. On several occasions aluminum oxide (or the Borax) cemented when I first started learning to use a vibe. I always polished in the rotary using aluminum oxide. The wet AO slurry never cemented in the wet rotary. At first I replaced Borax with sugar since it dissolves better than Borax. That solved the concretions. Then I started running the Borax much wetter in the vibe with AO and added 30%-40% smalls. Great shine and no need to add water for 2-3 day vibe runs. Borax seems to give a higher polish than sugar. The coral I tumble often has dozens of micro druzzy pockets throughout and not noticeable by the human eye till they are packed with bright white polish. Very frustrating to find a dried load in the vibe.
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nileriver
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2016
Posts: 22
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Post by nileriver on Apr 19, 2017 9:40:40 GMT -5
I'm don't know what an ultrasonic cleaner is.... I tried to wash them several times as richardh suggested. Like jamesp said, the stuff is in there like cement. Alas, they are back to the tumbler in coarse grind, except for maybe 20% of them, which are flawless, thus no cracks or pits for the polish to set up in. Hardly any of those rocks looked like they had any flaws after prepolish in the vibe. It seems that letting them go dry during polish really caused a lot of trauma, opened up cracks and pits that were not there before, and fractured the s**t out of so many of them. Really sick because I'm afraid I ruined a batch that was really looking good until then. I will do like jamesp and rum my vibe really wet going forward. On several occasions aluminum oxide (or the Borax) cemented when I first started learning to use a vibe. I always polished in the rotary using aluminum oxide. The wet AO slurry never cemented in the wet rotary. At first I replaced Borax with sugar since it dissolves better than Borax. That solved the concretions. Then I started running the Borax much wetter in the vibe with AO and added 30%-40% smalls. Great shine and no need to add water for 2-3 day vibe runs. Borax seems to give a higher polish than sugar. The coral I tumble often has dozens of micro druzzy pockets throughout and not noticeable by the human eye till they are packed with bright white polish. Very frustrating to find a dried load in the vibe. I will definitely try this. I am already using that % of smalls, so I got that part right anyway. How much Borax in a 4 lb. load? And are you still adding sugar as well? If so, how much?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 10:01:55 GMT -5
On several occasions aluminum oxide (or the Borax) cemented when I first started learning to use a vibe. I always polished in the rotary using aluminum oxide. The wet AO slurry never cemented in the wet rotary. At first I replaced Borax with sugar since it dissolves better than Borax. That solved the concretions. Then I started running the Borax much wetter in the vibe with AO and added 30%-40% smalls. Great shine and no need to add water for 2-3 day vibe runs. Borax seems to give a higher polish than sugar. The coral I tumble often has dozens of micro druzzy pockets throughout and not noticeable by the human eye till they are packed with bright white polish. Very frustrating to find a dried load in the vibe. I will definitely try this. I am already using that % of smalls, so I got that part right anyway. How much Borax in a 4 lb. load? And are you still adding sugar as well? If so, how much? No sugar anymore nileriver. 3/4 tablespoon of Borax and 3/4 tablespoon AO 80 for 4 pounds. I am 2 tablespoons each in 14 pound Vibrasonic, so the suggested quantities. But WETTER than normal. The AO 80 is a slurry maker the first 24 hours. The AO 80 makes a great protective milky cream resembling Half and Half. A slurry the abrasive industry would pay for. It will dry out if you don't run it wetter than normal..... I start out with enough water that it runs 3 days without adding water, but not too much. No puddling in the bottom of the hopper....the rule.
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nileriver
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Member since December 2016
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Post by nileriver on Apr 19, 2017 14:02:39 GMT -5
Got it! Thanks for all your help jamesp. Appreciate all the prompt replies. I don't have anything ready for polish at present, but I will update when I do. My prepolish & polish are both AO, but I don't know what size. Lortone doesn't state on container. I'm going to get some AO 80 & 14,000 and try your two-step recipe that I've read about on other threads, but for now I need to use up the stuff that I have. I've definitely learned a ton from you & others on here.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 3, 2017 20:22:30 GMT -5
Have you figured a way to remove the polish nileriver ?
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Post by spiceman on May 3, 2017 23:06:00 GMT -5
My opinion is to stop the problem before it happens....if you can. On YOUTUBE it shows a person using "Hot Stuff" to fill cracks and pits Before moving to another stage. Check out the video. Hot Stuff (super glue) the red bottle, even says for lapitory.
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Post by pauls on May 4, 2017 2:26:31 GMT -5
I just discovered you can still get a good polish in the vibe with a really wet mixture. I saved the slurry and wash water from a batch I had polished, the polish had settled out nicely leaving a good layer of fairly clean water, I figured that it was already primed with a decent amount of Borax so might as well use it to rinse the next batch to go in the polish, I tipped the water in quite deep because I was rinsing, also got a tiny bit of polish, hardly enough to see in the water and let it run overnight, when I had a look in the morning they were well on the way to being polished so I just let them go. Worked well.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 4:19:47 GMT -5
I just discovered you can still get a good polish in the vibe with a really wet mixture. I saved the slurry and wash water from a batch I had polished, the polish had settled out nicely leaving a good layer of fairly clean water, I figured that it was already primed with a decent amount of Borax so might as well use it to rinse the next batch to go in the polish, I tipped the water in quite deep because I was rinsing, also got a tiny bit of polish, hardly enough to see in the water and let it run overnight, when I had a look in the morning they were well on the way to being polished so I just let them go. Worked well. Good to hear pauls. Using white aluminum oxide and running on the dry side has been a recipe for trouble(my experience). Operating on the edge of cementing aluminum oxide into the rocks is unerving. I see no difference in polish starting with a shiny wet slurry that needs no water additions for 2-3 days. And not having to tend the water sprayer twice a day.
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nileriver
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Member since December 2016
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Post by nileriver on May 4, 2017 12:20:54 GMT -5
Have you figured a way to remove the polish nileriver ? Not really. That batch divided roughly into three categories. One third were flawless, with no pits/cracks. All done. Another third had the AO cemented in to pits/cracks. Not horribly fractured and pitted, but still a bit unsightly. These went back to the tumbler for a coarse grind. I'm hoping they will be redeemed. The last third are like the second, except that, for some reason, they are fractured to a much greater degree, in both number and depth of cracks. I guess they are a bit more fragile? Those also went back to coarse, but I'm afraid they are ruined for most purposes. Lesson learned. Going forward, I will be running the AO very wet in the vibe.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 14:50:04 GMT -5
Just not too wet nileriver. Not wet enough to have any puddling in the bottom of the hopper. It is a bad day to have babied your rocks through all that work and paste them up with white crap. It may be the most frustrating tumble.
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