greenmann
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2005
Posts: 325
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Post by greenmann on Jan 19, 2006 19:44:41 GMT -5
Well, I gave them my first negative rating... maybe I was asking too much, I dunno. You decide. First, I was racing through ebay checking things, found a lot of Amethyst, 1000 carrots for only a dollar. Read the description, picture was nice purply amethyst, described as cabbing grade but looked like tumbling rough. Initially I read the shipping at 8.95. Was in too much of a hurry I guess to really check, so I bid. Imagine my chagrine when I won the darn thing, and it was 18.95 shipping. No wonder no one else bid on it *sigh* So... I sent him a note asking if he could lower the shipping a little. He got really snippy on me, and over the course of three consecutive e-mails really was on the verge of being rude and generally unpleasant about the whole thing. He claims the rock has been selling on his website for as much as $90 for the same size lot. I highly doubt that, but you never know what people will buy. Finally he offered to let me not pay it and not get the amethyst, but I decided it was my fault for not looking closely enough, and if the color and clarity of the rock was as he described in his mail, then it might be worth that much. Besides, I really do think he was gouging on the shipping even if the quality of the stone was better than expected, and I think too many sellers on ebay get away with this shit cause people are afraid to give negative feedback. So a week later I get the Amethyst... and it is what the picture looked like. I'll post some photos, but to me it looks like tumbling grade. There are two stones that are clear enough to yeild a nice fairly clean opaque cab of a decent size. The large one is realy not good for anything but tumbling. So what do you think? For 1.00+ 18.95 (not to mention the hassle of dealing with him) think it was worth it for these stones? And yes, that comes out to over $40 a pound. 1000 carats sounds like so much... but that turns out to be a little over 7.5 ounces. If he gave me an extra carat it sure doesn't look like it, if anything I think the lot is a carat or two shy.  and so you can see something of the clarity of them, though they are totally out of focus...    As you can see, the color is good, they are mostly a decent size and with care they should tumble well. I just wish the shipping hadn't been so astronomical. And truth is, I probably would have at least given him a nuetral rating just cause he was such an ass about it in the messages we exchanged. Its just not good business to insult your customers. |
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Post by pho on Jan 19, 2006 20:29:01 GMT -5
Hmmm...brings to mind the old saying...buyer beware..
Pho
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Post by xenaswolf on Jan 19, 2006 20:30:35 GMT -5
Well lets say this...you learned to slow down and read carefully, but I think he should have sent you some KY to go along with the ammy.....
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 19, 2006 20:53:56 GMT -5
Yep, got to read the fine print. A lot of what I would call unethical E-Bayers try to draw you in with cheap starting bids and then add on truly ridiculous shipping and handling charges. I sell on E-Bay and try to make s/h charges as close to what my actual cost is as possible. If that guy's amethyst is worth as much as he says it is, he should just be up front and adjust his starting bid accordingly. Then he can charge what the shipping really costs instead of back dooring his customers in more ways than one.....mel
PS: The amethyst I got from the Rockshed at $5.00 per pound with flat rate shipping looked just as good as what the guy you dealt with sold you.
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greenmann
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2005
Posts: 325
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Post by greenmann on Jan 19, 2006 23:44:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I was initially upset mostly about the rediculous shipping charge. I have no problem with them charging a little extra for packaging and handling... but 18.95 s&h for less than 1/2 a pound of stone is imho patently rediculous. And then to virtually scream at me for questioning it? Well, lets jsut say I won't be doing business with him again.
And thanks Mel, that was one of the questions I had... since this is the first time I have gotten amethyst I wasn't sure how the grades work and what the usual cost of this would be. Maybe I'll get some from the Rockshed so I can fill a barrel, anyway. Anyone know of a good place to get citrine that has more yellow than white? I was really hoping to run a little of both together.
Brett
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Post by rockds on Jan 20, 2006 0:12:54 GMT -5
I don't care what the rock is, if I think the price on shipping is high I don't bid, others will have it sooner or later with the right ship price.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 20, 2006 2:26:18 GMT -5
Greenman: You know, I don't know why E-Bay doesn't do something about this deal with the ridiculously high shipping charges too. It cheats them on posting fees and on final sales fees as the shipping charges are not included in the calculations for these E-Bay charges. Yet, the seller is using them to generate most of his profits. Like I said, not very ethical at all!!! I think I'd send a note to E-Bay and tell them about what this seller is doing. I'd think they'd be pretty interested....mel
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Post by Toad on Jan 20, 2006 6:37:03 GMT -5
I agree that this appears to be a shady character. But I don't agree with the negative feedback. No matter how outrageous, he posted the shipping ahead of time. Astrogallery is another e-bayer that charges fairly high shipping, but again I figure that into the price before I bid on his stuff. I would withdraw the negative feedbak were I you. Not his fault that you didn't read correctly.
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Post by deb193 on Jan 20, 2006 6:45:12 GMT -5
I would NOT withdraw. The issue was not only with the amount of shipping - which was clearly outrageous; but was also misrepresented quality, rude correspondance ... etc.
Stick with your position!
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thehawke
freely admits to licking rocks
My Lord and Master
Member since January 2006
Posts: 866
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Post by thehawke on Jan 20, 2006 10:29:45 GMT -5
OCCASIONALLY, when such an auction is reported to ebay, they send a nasty letter to the seller and end their auction early. It has to be a clearcut case of fee avoidance and if this doesn't fit the bill, I am not sure what would.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 20, 2006 12:02:11 GMT -5
I buy every now and then from Astrogallery and used to think their shipping was a bit high. In their defense, we've all been spoiled by the cheap flat rate postal box so Astrogallery's rates shipping via UPS seem high. Actually UPS 'is" much higher than the flat rater but cheaper than the post office were the flat rate carton not available. Astrogallery does combine lots to save on shipping too. For example: a 20 pound box from Astrogallery ( two wins) just cost me about $19.00 shipping via UPS. That same package in a non flat rate USPS priority mail shipment would be $38.00. Twice as much! Since Astrogallery ships so many items they probably use UPS because they pick up at the sellers business and they state the method of shipment and all costs ahead of time, their shipping is really not out of line.......mel
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Post by Alice on Jan 20, 2006 12:36:32 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about the shipping charges.
The reason people blow the shipping charges up so high is because E-bay takes a percentage of the final sale, but not on shipping charges.
So they want a minimum of $10 for their Item... They start the bid at .99 cents (that's the highest "minimum" you can start the bid before fee's go up over .25 cents for the listing....
OK, someone (like in your case) bids on the item and wins it for .99 cents. Ebay will take a percentage of the winning bid on top of the initial .25 cent fee... which comes out to 30? 35? cents in total that the seller has to pay. ... so the guy actually made about .69 cents on the sale.
If he takes the package to the post office by car, chances are that the .69 cents that he made went in for gas... So technically, he just gave the item away.
By adding $10 to the actual shipping charges, he gets the $10 he originally wanted with no fee's attached.
If he were to start the bid at $10, he'd have to pay higher e-bay fees, and a higher percentage at the end.
(Also, an auction starting at .99 cents is far more attractive then an auction starting at $10)
Some people put reserves on their auctions, but some find many avoid those auctions because they think the reserve is VERY high. So by boosting your shipping costs, it insures that you're gonna get the $ you want.
Hope all this makes sense
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Post by deb193 on Jan 20, 2006 18:13:30 GMT -5
Alice and all-
Alice does make sense. But, it is still technically fee avoidance. I think that if clever people were intent on improving the situation, that lots of middle ground could be found. For example, ebay could itemize shipping and handling seerately so folks knew what they were paying and why. Listings could be sorted not just by current price, but also by "final price". Lots of sites like pricegrabber.com, shopping.com, and bizrate.com all let you enter your zip code to see the final price and even sort by final price. The technology is there. I really hate having to look at listings individually because I don't know how much S&H until I click on it. I WANT TO SEARCH on this info because my time is valuable. Another idea would be to have a service fee that applied to final bid prices below a specified amount. Lots of places have a fee on credit card orders that is waived if the order is over $10 or some such. Ebay could easily create a listing where a specified service fee was added to the price unless the bidding went over a specified amount (like a RESERVE, but only where the buyer paid a small premium for a deep bargin). Or how about a "fragile" designation where there was an extra fee for packing materials. If I was buying rough rock, I could search for listings that did or din not include fragile. The idea is to empower the buyer. I am sure there would be other clever ideas that would be buyer friendly and help the honest sellers too. Ebay just has no reason to change because there are so many buyers.
One reason ebay no longer goes after inflated S&H is that they still get a cut of the S&H if PayPal is used - so what's their motivation.
I don't know about Manhattan, but here in State College, I can request pickup of Priority Mail boxes. I can print labels and buy postage on line - I don't even need a scale for flat rate boxes. I can get them picked up at my door.
The seller of the amethyst just sounds like a jerk, but AstroGallery is a bit different. They are family run with lots of additional sales assistants. I have been in there. These guys are getting paid whether they lean against the counter or walk down the street to the post office's drop off storefront. NO GAS INVOLVED.
The original concept of handling was that brick & mortar stores who did very little mail order business would have to get some shipping materials and take some time that exceeded dropping the item in a bag and saying "thanks for shopping with us". I really think that mail order businesses, who do not have the overhead of a storefront, should try to keep handling fees more reasonable. The basic cost of doing business should be reflected in the asking price.
Just some thoughts
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Post by Toad on Jan 21, 2006 12:08:00 GMT -5
I would NOT withdraw. The issue was not only with the amount of shipping - which was clearly outrageous; but was also misrepresented quality, rude correspondance ... etc. Stick with your position! greenman said the seller was on the verge of being rude - not rude. And to be honest he had the right to be rude. He posted for everyone to see exactly what the shipping would cost - there was no surprise there. When you have the winning bid, you have agreed to the final price, shipping, and whatever other conditions the seller has set. Now the fact that greenman made an honest mistake and asked for an adjustment is fine - one time. It is up to the seller to if they want to change anything. After that, the buyer is being rude by trying to wriggle out of their contract. Then on top of it to leave negative feedback when the seller did everything as spelled out in the auction is just vindictive. Yes, the shipping was a rip-off. But buy your amethyst somewhere else. Don't complain about paying high costs when they were never hidden. |
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shyhobbit
starting to shine!
Member since October 2005
Posts: 38
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Post by shyhobbit on Jan 21, 2006 13:29:25 GMT -5
Leaving negative feedback for no reason when the seller has been upfront about shipping has repercussions. Now YOU have negative feedback on your ebay rating from bitonjewelers.  Feedback goes both ways. |
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thehawke
freely admits to licking rocks
My Lord and Master
Member since January 2006
Posts: 866
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Post by thehawke on Jan 21, 2006 14:20:08 GMT -5
I would never ever be afraid to leave deserved neg feedback because I might get neg feedback. Most ebay shoppers and sellers are smart enough to see through retaiatory feedback.
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Post by Toad on Jan 21, 2006 16:27:31 GMT -5
I would never ever be afraid to leave deserved neg feedback because I might get neg feedback. Most ebay shoppers and sellers are smart enough to see through retaiatory feedback. I agree, but it should be deserved. What if someone thinks $8.00 is too much? The seller protects themselves from judgements calls by stating what they charge for shipping whether it be $1 or $100. If you don't like the shipping price, don't bid. |
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 21, 2006 16:47:00 GMT -5
Toad: I agree with you on the feedback. Basically, if the shipping charges were stated up front, the dealer has given fair warning. Though I don't agree with a dealer using S/H charges to generate profit and screw E-Bay out of their earned fees, there is no reason for negative feedback regarding shipping charges that were not hidden. I'd simply not bid on their items....mel
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greenmann
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2005
Posts: 325
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Post by greenmann on Jan 22, 2006 14:00:13 GMT -5
wow, step away for a bit and find a firestorm in my wake..
well, I left the negative feedback, and frankly I would do it again. I'm sorry, but for the stone I got, the total cost of shipping and bid was way too much, and when I asked for a better shipping cost in a reasonable way, his reaction was, imho, unproffessional and rude. If it were a store front I walked into, I would have walked right back out. The ONLY way we have of publicly making comments about a seller on e-bay is through feedback, so I left negative feedback. I doubt seriously e-bay itself would either be interested in or do anything about this sellers business model, since there are plenty of others i see doing the same thing, but maybe that's just me being pessimistic. If I get a few black marks on my e-bay rep in retaliation, so be it.
You could say that I should have known better than to buy from someone with that high a shipping charge, etc... but that is kinda beside the point. This guy was unproffessional both in the way he set up the lots and in the way he handled me, a disgruntled customer. Personally I think he deserves the feedback and I would do it again in a hearbeat.
If he had simply handled me better in the e-mail exchange, rather than toungue lashing me in three consecutive e-mails, then I would have left a nuetral feedback, since it really was my fault for not reading correctly the true shipping charges. But I believe its unethical to make your shipping charges10-15 dollars over the actual shipping price of the items offered. For that alone I don't think he deserves good feedback. And since we only have three options (good, nuetral or negative), and the silly feedback form is way to short to truly explain yourself, I chose what I feel is the most appropriate feedback I could give. Maybe that was the wrong choice too. If so, I can live with that.
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Post by Toad on Jan 23, 2006 6:56:00 GMT -5
Let me see if I have this straight:
1. You were wrong.
2. You admit you were wrong.
3. You try to get out of the contract you agreed to.
4. When the seller gets upset - you smack him with negative feedback.
Now I understand - you're the self-appointed e-bay police. Well you have your work cut out for you because I've seen lots of auctions out there with $29.95 for shipping. So get buying and don't forget the negative feedback.
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