barclay
has rocks in the head
Lowly Padawan of rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 510
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Post by barclay on May 25, 2017 21:34:08 GMT -5
I have been looking at getting into intarsia. I saw the ads for the Al Sesona grinder and it looked like a compact precision made machine. I went to the website and clicked on the Free Information Kit link and discovered that it does not work. I should have known something was wrong. Not to be deterred I clicked on the contact link and asked for product information. In about a week I got a letter with price list, with a few pictures and not the clearest descriptions of what he has for sale. Being a machinist by trade he has developed some unique gear for his grinder and given this gear his own unique names. Still not being sure what gear is necessary, what is optional and what is for really high end complex jobs I send him what I though was a simple request, "I got the letter with all of the options and attachments, but I am unclear what I would need to do intarsias". Nearly all business people when asked "What do I need to buy from you" respond with a list of what to buy or try to figure out your needs so they can give you a list. Al's response was,"Google Intarsia on-line and seek enlightening references to provide insight some helpful guidance". He adds to go find a local rock club that does intarsia with one of his grinders and ask them. He then goes on to say how a local lapidary school uses his product and is very happy with it. The problem with Googling intarsia is that you don't find out what Al Sesona grinder products you need. By now I am kind of peeved at his "don't bother me" attitude, but I am not ready to write him off so i email him back. "So you are not going to tell me what pieces of gear I need to buy from you to do intarsia? If that is too much to ask then I will take my business elsewhere". He responds that his grinder comes with a 180 grit lap, tells me the price and adds, "Wish I could be more helpful than that, Paul, but making all component parts for the Grinder requires full time and none available to instruct". I didn't ask for a lesson, just a list. He goes on, "Given your abrasive attitude reply after my taking time to help, I suggest you educate yourself with lapidary before spending hard earned money buying ANY piece of equipment, only to find out your choice wasn't the best choice to assist your hobby needs". I don't consider the first reply of "Google intarsias and find other people using my gear" to be "help". If you can't go to the equipment manufacturer to get "educated" about what you need to buy from the manufacturer, especially considering the unique nature of the equipment, where do you go? I have been doing lapidary for 21 years now, I know very little about intarsia, but I do know that a 180 grit wheel on a flat lap is not all i need by a long shot. I have never run into anyone selling high cost items that makes it so hard to purchase the items. One of the things that I believe distinguishes rockhounding from all of the other hobbies I have had is the helpfullness people show to one another. When I collected comic books, stamps, coins, sci-fi stuff, etc it was about getting there first and getting the time into your collection where it probably stays till the day you die. Rockhounding and lapidary is all about sharing. You may not get invited to load up at someone's gold mine, but more often than not rockhounds will take you to where they discovered the cool rocks. We show off our work and almost all the time we tell folks how we did it so they can make something cool also. That is why Al Sesona struck me as so strange. I like the idea of "the little guy" with some technical skills designing an innovative machine, but if you are unhelpful and hostile to your customers there are plenty of nice, helpful folks you can do business with.
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on May 25, 2017 23:45:27 GMT -5
I don't think this is any good reason to stay away from the grinder. You just need to know what you're getting into, which your post helps to clarify. Maybe the grinder is really good. Maybe the after-sales service is as good (/bad) as the pre-sales.
Some folk are just plain technical and this demonstrates why they need a sales lead!
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Post by rockjunquie on May 26, 2017 22:51:13 GMT -5
I don't blame you for being peeved. I would have been, too. And I completely agree. I would go somewhere else, too. Too bad he missed out on a sale with a crappy attitude.
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Post by coloradocliff on May 26, 2017 22:58:55 GMT -5
I would tend to stay away from the too good to be true things. Let someone else go crazy on an unproven machine. Stay mainline, tried and true and you'll live longer and happier.
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lyns
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2017
Posts: 1 
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Post by lyns on Sept 4, 2017 14:11:59 GMT -5
I have not yet tried to purchase my machine from Al, but I HAVE used it several times at the William Holland School of Lapidary Arts in Young Harris, Georgia. It is a beautiful machine that does a great job of creating perfectly flat, right angle surfaces needed for most intarsia work. The 180 grit flat lap is mounted vertical and the flat plate mounted in front of it makes it SO easy to achieve that for centerpieces as well as frames. The lighting provided is excellent, as is the water drip system. I have not been doing lapidary work for but about a quarter of the time you have been, but I found the classes at the school to be MORE than helpful every step of the way, and I can't wait to save up and get my own machine from Al. I believe he is not a young man, so some of his brusqueness might be attributed to his age. I am sorry this has been your experience with him, but his machine is truly awesome. I hope you will give it a chance. The price seems quite reasonable, especially as each machine is made when ordered and I have not found another that is as well made as his. William Holland has been using their's for many years now. I imagine they could answer any questions you may have about it, given enough time for them to respond (they have a LOT of classes going on April into November every year). You can check them out at www.lapidaryschool.org/. I believe you will find a Contact Us link there. BTW, I am talking about the $399 machine, not the one with the contoured plates, which I have NOT used. BUT, I AM intrigued by it! |
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 4, 2017 14:37:12 GMT -5
I have not yet tried to purchase my machine from Al, but I HAVE used it several times at the William Holland School of Lapidary Arts in Young Harris, Georgia. It is a beautiful machine that does a great job of creating perfectly flat, right angle surfaces needed for most intarsia work. The 180 grit flat lap is mounted vertical and the flat plate mounted in front of it makes it SO easy to achieve that for centerpieces as well as frames. The lighting provided is excellent, as is the water drip system. I have not been doing lapidary work for but about a quarter of the time you have been, but I found the classes at the school to be MORE than helpful every step of the way, and I can't wait to save up and get my own machine from Al. I believe he is not a young man, so some of his brusqueness might be attributed to his age. I am sorry this has been your experience with him, but his machine is truly awesome. I hope you will give it a chance. The price seems quite reasonable, especially as each machine is made when ordered and I have not found another that is as well made as his. William Holland has been using their's for many years now. I imagine they could answer any questions you may have about it, given enough time for them to respond (they have a LOT of classes going on April into November every year). You can check them out at www.lapidaryschool.org/. I believe you will find a Contact Us link there. BTW, I am talking about the $399 machine, not the one with the contoured plates, which I have NOT used. BUT, I AM intrigued by it! Thanks for a fresh update and a big Colorado Howdy and welcome to the forum. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 4, 2017 22:26:35 GMT -5
I believe the contoured plates are cabbing dish laps for those who want to do everything with a single machine. It also looks like all the "kit attachment" and whatnot in the product descriptions come with the machine and will be very self evident what they're for. I think that only the dish laps are additional products. The angle templates are there to make advanced intarsia components, you would use then to make precise angles and they will index off of the work surface. I think lyns is probably correct about the grumpy old guy factor, and after reading about the "Superior Fiduciary Stainless Steal Clad, low friction, long lasting work surface" I'm also thinking that he may be more creative with machines than language. All that said, as a tool guy and someone who has designed and built a few specialty machines at my day job, I really think this machine is a winner. Materials to build your own at the same level of quality would be around $275-$300 for the stuff you see, and I think there are a few parts described that are not shown but included in the description. Assembly for a mere $100-$150 is pretty much Chinese laborer rates, the machine is a deal. coloradocliff this is not an unproven machine, the wood workers version of this is tried and true for generations, in fact I just picked up a disc/belt combo today. www.alsesonagrinder.com/product-page/intarsia-grinder |
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 4, 2017 23:26:45 GMT -5
Boy for sure. lyns convinced me too. Really good to see your helpful critique agreeing with as mine . Well said, a renowned school like William Holland use of them would make a strong endorsement of the machine. Good to know they make woodworking tools also. Thanks Rockoonz |
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 5, 2017 14:39:25 GMT -5
Al Sesona doesn't, to my knowledge. What I was saying is that style of disc sander has been around a long time.
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Post by melhill1659 on Oct 29, 2017 12:29:31 GMT -5
I have been looking at getting into intarsia. I saw the ads for the Al Sesona grinder and it looked like a compact precision made machine. I went to the website and clicked on the Free Information Kit link and discovered that it does not work. I should have known something was wrong. Not to be deterred I clicked on the contact link and asked for product information. In about a week I got a letter with price list, with a few pictures and not the clearest descriptions of what he has for sale. Being a machinist by trade he has developed some unique gear for his grinder and given this gear his own unique names. Still not being sure what gear is necessary, what is optional and what is for really high end complex jobs I send him what I though was a simple request, "I got the letter with all of the options and attachments, but I am unclear what I would need to do intarsias". Nearly all business people when asked "What do I need to buy from you" respond with a list of what to buy or try to figure out your needs so they can give you a list. Al's response was,"Google Intarsia on-line and seek enlightening references to provide insight some helpful guidance". He adds to go find a local rock club that does intarsia with one of his grinders and ask them. He then goes on to say how a local lapidary school uses his product and is very happy with it. The problem with Googling intarsia is that you don't find out what Al Sesona grinder products you need. By now I am kind of peeved at his "don't bother me" attitude, but I am not ready to write him off so i email him back. "So you are not going to tell me what pieces of gear I need to buy from you to do intarsia? If that is too much to ask then I will take my business elsewhere". He responds that his grinder comes with a 180 grit lap, tells me the price and adds, "Wish I could be more helpful than that, Paul, but making all component parts for the Grinder requires full time and none available to instruct". I didn't ask for a lesson, just a list. He goes on, "Given your abrasive attitude reply after my taking time to help, I suggest you educate yourself with lapidary before spending hard earned money buying ANY piece of equipment, only to find out your choice wasn't the best choice to assist your hobby needs". I don't consider the first reply of "Google intarsias and find other people using my gear" to be "help". If you can't go to the equipment manufacturer to get "educated" about what you need to buy from the manufacturer, especially considering the unique nature of the equipment, where do you go? I have been doing lapidary for 21 years now, I know very little about intarsia, but I do know that a 180 grit wheel on a flat lap is not all i need by a long shot. I have never run into anyone selling high cost items that makes it so hard to purchase the items. One of the things that I believe distinguishes rockhounding from all of the other hobbies I have had is the helpfullness people show to one another. When I collected comic books, stamps, coins, sci-fi stuff, etc it was about getting there first and getting the time into your collection where it probably stays till the day you die. Rockhounding and lapidary is all about sharing. You may not get invited to load up at someone's gold mine, but more often than not rockhounds will take you to where they discovered the cool rocks. We show off our work and almost all the time we tell folks how we did it so they can make something cool also. That is why Al Sesona struck me as so strange. I like the idea of "the little guy" with some technical skills designing an innovative machine, but if you are unhelpful and hostile to your customers there are plenty of nice, helpful folks you can do business with. Paul, This is my first day back from William Holland. The class I took was a Cabochon class with Beginner Intarsia. We used Al’s Intarsia Grider an I love it so very much I’m purchasing one tomorrow!!!! Let me say this: the man you see in the picture on his over simplified website (that alone should have given you a clue) is the much younger version of the man that stands today. He’s gotten older a crotchety but... his machine is The S**T!! I’m going back in April to WH to take a Silver Inlay and Intarsia II and both classes also use this machine!! If you purchase one and need any help with it I can always shoot you a few videos!! |
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Post by melhill1659 on Oct 29, 2017 12:29:50 GMT -5
I have been looking at getting into intarsia. I saw the ads for the Al Sesona grinder and it looked like a compact precision made machine. I went to the website and clicked on the Free Information Kit link and discovered that it does not work. I should have known something was wrong. Not to be deterred I clicked on the contact link and asked for product information. In about a week I got a letter with price list, with a few pictures and not the clearest descriptions of what he has for sale. Being a machinist by trade he has developed some unique gear for his grinder and given this gear his own unique names. Still not being sure what gear is necessary, what is optional and what is for really high end complex jobs I send him what I though was a simple request, "I got the letter with all of the options and attachments, but I am unclear what I would need to do intarsias". Nearly all business people when asked "What do I need to buy from you" respond with a list of what to buy or try to figure out your needs so they can give you a list. Al's response was,"Google Intarsia on-line and seek enlightening references to provide insight some helpful guidance". He adds to go find a local rock club that does intarsia with one of his grinders and ask them. He then goes on to say how a local lapidary school uses his product and is very happy with it. The problem with Googling intarsia is that you don't find out what Al Sesona grinder products you need. By now I am kind of peeved at his "don't bother me" attitude, but I am not ready to write him off so i email him back. "So you are not going to tell me what pieces of gear I need to buy from you to do intarsia? If that is too much to ask then I will take my business elsewhere". He responds that his grinder comes with a 180 grit lap, tells me the price and adds, "Wish I could be more helpful than that, Paul, but making all component parts for the Grinder requires full time and none available to instruct". I didn't ask for a lesson, just a list. He goes on, "Given your abrasive attitude reply after my taking time to help, I suggest you educate yourself with lapidary before spending hard earned money buying ANY piece of equipment, only to find out your choice wasn't the best choice to assist your hobby needs". I don't consider the first reply of "Google intarsias and find other people using my gear" to be "help". If you can't go to the equipment manufacturer to get "educated" about what you need to buy from the manufacturer, especially considering the unique nature of the equipment, where do you go? I have been doing lapidary for 21 years now, I know very little about intarsia, but I do know that a 180 grit wheel on a flat lap is not all i need by a long shot. I have never run into anyone selling high cost items that makes it so hard to purchase the items. One of the things that I believe distinguishes rockhounding from all of the other hobbies I have had is the helpfullness people show to one another. When I collected comic books, stamps, coins, sci-fi stuff, etc it was about getting there first and getting the time into your collection where it probably stays till the day you die. Rockhounding and lapidary is all about sharing. You may not get invited to load up at someone's gold mine, but more often than not rockhounds will take you to where they discovered the cool rocks. We show off our work and almost all the time we tell folks how we did it so they can make something cool also. That is why Al Sesona struck me as so strange. I like the idea of "the little guy" with some technical skills designing an innovative machine, but if you are unhelpful and hostile to your customers there are plenty of nice, helpful folks you can do business with. Paul, This is my first day back from William Holland. The class I took was a Cabochon class with Beginner Intarsia. We used Al’s Intarsia Grider an I love it so very much I’m purchasing one tomorrow!!!! Let me say this: the man you see in the picture on his over simplified website (that alone should have given you a clue) is the much younger version of the man that stands today. He’s gotten older a crotchety but... his machine is The S**T!! I’m going back in April to WH to take a Silver Inlay and Intarsia II and both classes also use this machine!! If you purchase one and need any help with it I can always shoot you a few videos!! |
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 29, 2017 14:04:17 GMT -5
Paul, This is my first day back from William Holland. The class I took was a Cabochon class with Beginner Intarsia. We used Al’s Intarsia Grider an I love it so very much I’m purchasing one tomorrow!!!! Let me say this: the man you see in the picture on his over simplified website (that alone should have given you a clue) is the much younger version of the man that stands today. He’s gotten older a crotchety but... his machine is The S**T!! I’m going back in April to WH to take a Silver Inlay and Intarsia II and both classes also use this machine!! If you purchase one and need any help with it I can always shoot you a few videos!! Mine arrived yesterday (10/28). After a long day of honeydoo I was allowed to take it out of the incredibly well packed box. After another day of intensive get ready for the holiday bazaars honeydoo today I MAY have time to play. The transaction was pleasant in every way, actually made me want to meet the man in person. He returned my call right after cleaning up from the hurricane and hand delivering several machines to William Holland. Hard to believe he's in his 90's. Yes, I know, pics...    |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 14:34:12 GMT -5
Wait? This machine makes milkshakes?  Does it have angles too? Or only 90? |
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 29, 2017 18:42:57 GMT -5
He has all kinds of additional things for angles and bezels.
I got the basic no frills grinder, 90 only.
I have the list of additional attachments and whatnot, probably the broken PDF file on his website. I will probably build my own version of the protractor attachment but since I got this to support what I do with my old facetor I won't need the adjustable platform or modified wobble block.
There will be a thread with pics, but probably not till after bazaar season.
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jone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2023
Posts: 112
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Post by jone on Sept 15, 2023 22:26:09 GMT -5
@hefty
Is a machine like that able to withstand the exposure to water? I assume it was designed for dry applications like wood/metal…
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 15, 2023 23:39:17 GMT -5
This resurrected zombie thread sure brings back memories, the OP complaining about Al sold at least 6 machines for him, one of them to me. I use it frequently.
Last I heard, Al sold to someone who, sadly, has either sold to HP China or they just started making their much more expensive, and IMO opinion prettier but very problematic version.
A disc sander for wood spins way too fast and is definitely an electrocution looking for a place to happen.
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 16, 2023 1:44:22 GMT -5
@hefty 1725 is a good speed for 6" wheels, but discs are different, on my 6" Sesona if the speed were any higher centrifugal force would not allow water to adhere. My 8" faceting machine has a variable servo I switched for the fixed speed original motor that spun the laps at about 500RPM with the orifinal pulleys, in current configuration I have top speed set at about 1000 at the disc, and often run slower.
At the outside edge of a 12" disc the speed is double that of a 6". What would you use for abrasives? The 12" discs for wood will not work with hard rocks and is at pretty extreme risk of being shredded off the aluminum plate it's glued to, and speaking of glue, changing grits will not be quick.
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 16, 2023 8:02:54 GMT -5
@hefty the speed controllers burn up motors. 180 grit is what I use for intarsia joins, seems to work with everything, even chippy stuff if you're gentle. AO will have some effect on rocks up to about 5.5 Mohs but the backing gets torn up pretty easy when wet. I suppose you could use the floor sanding discs in SiC that people use on the richardsons high speed sanders if you can find the diameter and a no hole disc, another option is having a steel plate made and using magnetic discs, but a lot of the time the efforts to "make it work" end up costing more than something more suitable. A big safety concern with anything you are using for the small pieces for intarsia is making sure the gap between abrasive and tool rest is small enough that nothing can get stuck in there.
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