mountainmanent
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 71
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Post by mountainmanent on Sept 6, 2017 19:23:29 GMT -5
Well I have never used this cabbing machine but got bored over the weekend and wired up a new power wire that the mice chewed up and it still runs great. I have a few questions though because I have never used one before. I replaced the grinding wheels and saw blade because it came with new ones. I made a few cuts with it with water in the well and it seems like the belt is slipping so I need new belts. It also needs new plumbing for the water that runs on the grinding stones. My questions are,,,the slab saw is pretty greasy. Do I use a light weight oil instead of water for keeping the blade cool? And other then replumbing it is there any kind of general maintenance that I should do on it or anything in particular I should look for before actually attempting to use it? This thing has sat in my shop for about 5yrs and another 5 yrs from the guy I got it from that was the original owner. I don't want anything major to go wrong once I put it to use and if there is anything you can think of that I should do I would greatly appreciate the info being that I am extremely green to this machine and cabbing in general. Thanks in advance. Dave Attachments:
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 6, 2017 19:59:07 GMT -5
That looks like an old Combo unit. Heavy built, good deal to have a solid one. Without a cover I bet that you should run water. Mineral oil without a cover could get real messy real quick. On the other hand while most new saws that small use water the older might not have. Running a saw designed for oil on water will quickly ruin the bearings. If the bearings are tight on the saw, it is lubed and then ran,, cleaned and re-oiled and its not making noise and isn't too sloppy then I would run at is. The worst you could do is have to replace bearings and eventually the wheels. The oil on the table might be a good clue. You will need to talk to one of the people at Hp. There are so many older combo units and while it might use water if their recommendations are for oil use a mineral oil. Mineral oil livestock supplement oil is cheaper and available at a lot of farm suppliers. Freight is the pricy thing when buying mineral oil They have all kinds of downloadable manuals. ie.. www.dropbox.com/s/e3xoetgidjvj0dz/Highland%20Park%20Lapidary%20Slab%20Saw%20Manual%20v2%20Low%20Res.pdfBelts can b used from local sources but most have gotten to be expensive junk. www.vbeltsupply.com/Here is some people really good at remodeling old units like yours and sell parts at times and offer advice at times. cigarboxrock.com/forums/topic/new-member-frantom-combo-unit-renewal-project/Highland park is still in business and is making GOOD quality replacement parts in China and easily bought by going to their site Many people change out the old stone SiC wheels for the diamond types as they up grade. Not necessary . Cheaper to use what you got. Heres an idea. lapidaryforum.net/group/index.php?topic=2669.0Johnsgems is an older member, still in business and he knows all the old stuff and what would be best for your unit. Unfortunately hes setting up a big mineral and gemshow in Denver for the next 2 weeks and is busy. Google is your friend..
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 6, 2017 21:42:25 GMT -5
With a 10 inch or larger blade oil is better IMO. The problem is it's spraying around everywhere even when you're running the grinder. Water with a good quality additive like Lube cool from Johnson bros or Smokeys EZ cut will keep things from rusting. To my knowledge HP China only makes compatible replacement parts for slab saws, not really compatible at all unless you don't mind putting yugo parts on a Mercedes. If you contact Cigarbox ask them what they think of the Chinese stuff. Sorry coloradocliff I've had to deal with several extremely perturbed former customers of theirs and decline to attempt to fix their broken crap. IMPORTANT: If it has the original 10 year old Silicon Carbide grinding wheels be very careful. I had an aluminum oxide wheel fragment nail me in the jaw once. Never stand in front of them and leave them running to spin dry when you shut off the water supply, and as soon as the budget permits replace them with diamond.
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 6, 2017 22:32:55 GMT -5
With a 10 inch or larger blade oil is better IMO. The problem is it's spraying around everywhere even when you're running the grinder. Water with a good quality additive like Lube cool from Johnson bros or Smokeys EZ cut will keep things from rusting. To my knowledge HP China only makes compatible replacement parts for slab saws, not really compatible at all unless you don't mind putting yugo parts on a Mercedes. If you contact Cigarbox ask them what they think of the Chinese stuff. Sorry coloradocliff I've had to deal with several extremely perturbed former customers of theirs and decline to attempt to fix their broken crap. IMPORTANT: If it has the original 10 year old Silicon Carbide grinding wheels be very careful. I had an aluminum oxide wheel fragment nail me in the jaw once. Never stand in front of them and leave them running to spin dry when you shut off the water supply, and as soon as the budget permits replace them with diamond. Glad you chimed in Rock, Especially on the wheels going bad when not spun dry. Dangerous stuff. Plum forgot. Also I had heard some good stuff about the slab saws coming from Highland Park. Are their parts that bad like all the other Chinese junk? Cigar box has to get parts where they can. Can he build a shield over that saw or drain the oil so he isn't getting sprayed? Be kind of un handy if he was trying to trim and cab but for just getting the feel at first might work ok for him. Save some bucks right at the start. Yeah forgot that dangerous wheel left wet. Maybe I'm getting squirrely> Grin.. Thanks Rock.
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 7, 2017 0:15:30 GMT -5
coloradocliff first new HP saw I put my hands on was their demo at the pow-wow in q-site a few years back. As I always do with a saw I'm considering I grabbed the top of the vice and wiggled, it was looser than most 50+ year old used saws, the cast parts were pitted, basically a nice coat of paint on a turd. A club member in his 80's is getting the shuck and jive about repairs to his 18" chinese HP with about 10 hours of use before it broke. I made a saw top out of acrylic once, would definitely contain the spray. Draining when not in use works too. Those units are definitely durable and pretty easy to use, the clubs lapidary shop has a HP combo w/o saw and the only thing I've had to do is replace wheels and a water valve.
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mountainmanent
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 71
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Post by mountainmanent on Sept 7, 2017 5:11:59 GMT -5
Thank you all for the info. Actually the saw doesn't spray much at all. It has a blade guard that catches 99% of the coolant. But I like the idea of building a Plexiglas shield around it anyways. This particular model can be ran with just the saw or just the wheels,,they each have a knob that puts tension on and off the belt to engage or disengage them. What is the best source for diamond wheels? I knew I would get a lot of good info out of you all. Great group!!!!! Thank you
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Post by Peruano on Sept 7, 2017 7:55:39 GMT -5
I have restored or at least resurrected a saw similar to yours except mine has separate motor for saw and arbor. Use oil if your shop configuration can tolerate a bit of oil. I can position a plexiglass shield to the left side of the saw blade and one on the right (using an "H" like bracket used in installing shower glass panels (the panels can be moved as needed. Don't trust the antirust of most water additives. They retard but do not prevent rust. JSGems can sell you Nova wheels if that's what you want ,but you probably need an 80 or 100 grit hard wheel and alternatives up from there. I managed to squeeze three wheels in the space originally containing two. If you are going to use that buffer wheel closest to the saw, you should keep it covered to prevent grit contamination. That's the spot where I put my 80 grit wheel. If your unit is complete you may not need parts other than wheels and ultimately bearings, but if it spins ok at present, I wouldn't touch the bearings (although you may have to remove one of them to replace the wheels. The belt may just need adjustment or a bit of belt dressing. Again it may be necessary to either remove a bearing or use a segmented belt when it comes time to replace the belt so avoid if you can make do. Its a great machine and should serve you well. Shortcomings are that its not easy to change wheels or accommodate everything you need to finish cabs, but its rock solid and a good start. The saw can be made into a gravity feed, but probably you will hand feed it with or without the vice. I'll add a photo in case you want more info on shielding the spray from the saw. This is just a rough piece of plexiglass that I move where I need it. The H bracket just clips onto the side of the saw tray.
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 7, 2017 8:57:35 GMT -5
coloradocliff first new HP saw I put my hands on was their demo at the pow-wow in q-site a few years back. As I always do with a saw I'm considering I grabbed the top of the vice and wiggled, it was looser than most 50+ year old used saws, the cast parts were pitted, basically a nice coat of paint on a turd. A club member in his 80's is getting the shuck and jive about repairs to his 18" chinese HP with about 10 hours of use before it broke. I made a saw top out of acrylic once, would definitely contain the spray. Draining when not in use works too. Those units are definitely durable and pretty easy to use, the clubs lapidary shop has a HP combo w/o saw and the only thing I've had to do is replace wheels and a water valve. Well you just convinced me to look twice before buying an Hp I was thinking about to replace my old 18 with. Darn and thanks for a professional opinion Rock. Price is no good but if they are that sloppy...will avoid buying a headache.. Will check them out at the Denver show in about a week. Thanks again Cliff
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Post by coloradocliff on Sept 7, 2017 8:59:49 GMT -5
Plus 1 on nova wheels from "JSGems can sell you Nova wheels"
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mountainmanent
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 71
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Post by mountainmanent on Sept 7, 2017 17:34:31 GMT -5
looks great peruano!!!! I might try to do the same thing if the oil causes any issues and thanks for posting a picture. I build off pictures lol
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mountainmanent
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 71
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Post by mountainmanent on Sept 7, 2017 17:38:39 GMT -5
Peruano what did you have to do to eliminate the buffer wheel and add the 80 grit wheel? Any modifications or did yours come like that?
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Sept 7, 2017 17:50:07 GMT -5
mountainmanent, That looks like an HP combo unit I was restoring. It had a single motor to drive the saw & wheels. There are 2 knobs that you adjust to direct the motor to either side of the "transmission". I never finished refurbing it before I sold it so I could move. I had another, more modern HP machine for my next project. I'd love to see some closeups of the drive system from underneath. Pretty please! Lynn
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Post by Peruano on Sept 7, 2017 19:52:10 GMT -5
Count your wheels or potential wheels from left to right. The one closest to the saw is currently a buffer, and housed in a galvanized tank and shield. It probably does not have a water supply or drain but both are easily added. This buffer is held on by a nut and easily replaced with an 8" wheel (80 or 100 grit hard wheel). The bearing is beside that and need not be disturbed to make this addition. The next bay (wheels 2 and 3) is located between the bearing to the left and right. You will need to loosen the entire arbor shaft and remove one of the bearings to slide these wheels off. Its a bit of a challenge but not impossible. The fourth wheel or space on the right of the 2nd bearing is usually occupied in these old machine by what is called thumper wheel. I replaced that with an expand wheel that allows me to substitute belt of various grits as I work toward the final sanding and polish. Your machine seems to be lacking the hood and tray here (as was mine so I bought a hood and tray from Lortone to make this a functional bay. I removed the polishing wheel (flat disc) but can put it back on when needed - it obstructed belt changeouts. As I mentioned before I managed to squeeze 3 wheels in the space where you currently have 2 silicon carbide wheels. Mine are 280, 600, and 1200 grits. If you plan on using the saw, I'd consider making a couple of shields that can be moved around depending on where spraying is occurring. If you are sawing pebbles or rounded beach stones you will definitely get spray to the side and a lateral shield will prevent a lot of mess. The problem with daily draining (inherent with water in saw) is that the drain is in the back (not easily accessed) and the top is not that easy to remove from the saw table (necessary to allow drying in there). Hence oil is the way for me. You do need space to get your hands in the saw area but any other area on the side and toward you person can be shielded. A top is not absolutely necessary but one could be advantageous depending on the type of saying done. The amount of lubricant (depth on blade) is obviously a major factor in how much spray and mist you get while sawing. I hope this discourse helps you with your planning and renovation. Enjoy the process.
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mountainmanent
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 71
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Post by mountainmanent on Sept 8, 2017 4:46:25 GMT -5
mountainmanent , That looks like an HP combo unit I was restoring. It had a single motor to drive the saw & wheels. There are 2 knobs that you adjust to direct the motor to either side of the "transmission". I never finished refurbing it before I sold it so I could move. I had another, more modern HP machine for my next project. I'd love to see some closeups of the drive system from underneath. Pretty please! Lynn Yes this is a single motor with 2 different drive pulleys that the knobs control. When the knob is turned all the way clockwise the pulley closes up to make that side spin. When it is turned counter clockwise it opens the pulley up and allows that belt to slack up enough to not spin. I will get pictures and as long as they are not under 100mb I will post it.
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