jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 21, 2017 14:13:55 GMT -5
Straight from manufacturer. 130 pounds per cubic foot. Heavy stuff. Finally, enough ceramic media to fill the 14 pound vibe. Faster abrasive breakdown.
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
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Post by ubermenehune on Nov 21, 2017 19:07:06 GMT -5
$3.36/lb. for 36 lbs. Is it the same price per pound if you order 1000 lbs?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 22, 2017 2:55:57 GMT -5
$3.36/lb. for 36 lbs. Is it the same price per pound if you order 1000 lbs? I believe Lance at A&B said he would sell 50 pound bags. I got way more than I need as they made me buy the whole 36 pounds of leftovers. How much do you need ? I'll send you some. It is a lot more dense than expected. Heaviest small box I have picked up in a long time. There are two high density ceramics made at Washington Mills, one for abrasion and one for polishing. This one is designed to polish. No doubt this will increase the head pressure and dynamic forces in your vibe or rotary. Whether that is good or bad for rocks time will tell. Misc correspondance: Jim, You can call or email in an order with a credit card for the 36-lbs. We typically pre-pay and add the freight to the credit card. Lance Lagaly A&B Deburring Co., ISO Certified 525 Carr St Cincinnati, OH 45203 (513)723-0777 main (513)509-4704 direct --------------------------------------------------------------- image003.png Gentlemen: I spoke to Washington Mills earlier re: special order media and they advise the following: - Item #10979, Angle Cut Cylinder 30B, 5/16 x 9/16 dimensions, PZ Composition - Price: $3.37 per pound, plus actual shipping costs FOB Mfr. Plant, WI - They have 36 lbs. of leftover material on hand available to be shipped for test/sampling. - For further quantities, a 1,000 lb. minimum order applies, 6 week lead time. Further info & questions, please contact Lance Lagaly (llagaly@abdeburr.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Lance How can I obtain/purchase 20 to 30 pound sample of this PZ high density ? I am Jim Price. We are looking at a high density ceramic to use for rock tumbling. The name of the forum is forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/board/22/rock-tumblingAbout 8000+ members. Thanks
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 22, 2017 11:22:36 GMT -5
Going to tumble the tits off of these in the rotary. Smooth them up for a their maiden voyage in the vibe.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 22, 2017 17:10:27 GMT -5
The high density cylinders are about 30% heavier than the ceramic balls for the same volume. Even if the voids are not the same the volume and that is all that matters in the vibe hopper. Composition of ceramic balls unknown other than they are ceramic media for tumbling. 8 pounds rolling in rotary with SiC 30 to smooth media. 12 pounds in Vibrasonic with AO 80 and a 2 pound rock to smooth media. Started at the same time. Theoretically there was no need to add abrasive in either one. The media should grind itself smooth.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2017 9:30:29 GMT -5
Intriguing . Adding synthetic diamond(zirconia), as it is very heavy and of course hard. New news to me any way.
Since about all ceramic media is high content of aluminum oxide it does work your stones. Addition of zirconia to media makes for interesting concept, good or bad not sure...
Some ceramic tumbling media has up to 70% zirconia silicate. (formulas are proprietary but the Material Data Sheets tell percentages as a bulk description) The dense ones are probably 50 to 70% zirconia. That means that the only way to polish zirconia media is to tumble it against itself since aluminum oxide is no where near hard enough to abrade it. It also means that synthetic diamond media may have drastic impact on our rocks. Not sure what.
Industry has interest in reusing media many times, hardness is important for longevity. Industry is interested in process speed, dense media greatly speeds their process. Industry tumbles mostly metals and plastics. Rocks are a bit of an unknown.
Max density of zirconia 6.5(purest form) Max density of alum ox 3.9(purest form) Density of steel 7.8
One may have to tumble zirconia media against each other until it attains polish. Once polished it may impart a polish and not be effected by aluminum oxide 80-220-500-1000 etc etc or SiC 30-60-220-500 etc runs. Hard to say how such a hard media will effect rock tumbling.
ETA Zirconia compounds vary greatly in hardness. Not sure how hard media zirconia is.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2017 10:17:20 GMT -5
After 18 hours in the Vibrasonic with a 2 pound agate and AO 80. Ahead of time, especially considering ceramic media was virgin. Already have a sheen(lower right corner media) on both the agate and the media. Media is apparently not that hard. Upper row virgin, lower row after 18 hours:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2017 10:34:27 GMT -5
No confusion about who is harder. Rough virgin media scratches hard agate effortlessly.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2017 10:47:03 GMT -5
Good glassy almandine garnets are density 4.3 Good glassy agate is density 2.7.
weight of 14 pound capacity Vibrasonic full of agate = 14 pounds weight of 14 pound capacity vibrasonic fun of garnets = 22 pounds.
Check by math, 4.3/2.7 = 1.59 X 14 = 22.26 pounds, bang on.
Increased weight = increased grinding forces
Increased mass may come in handy on a slower vibe. Relationship of impact forces in a vibe = velocity X velocity basically. Increasing velocity exponentially increases impact forces. Increasing mass has linear relationship, way less effect on impact forces.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 16:53:59 GMT -5
I don't believe diamond and zirconia are synonyms.
This material seems very interesting. Patiently awaiting your results.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 23, 2017 20:20:10 GMT -5
I don't believe diamond and zirconia are synonyms. This material seems very interesting. Patiently awaiting your results. I see that now. Cubic zirconia is no where near as hard as diamond. Thanks for pointing that out. As long as it is hard/tough enough to last as a dense media all's well. Had mixed feelings about super hard media. Like almandine garnet is barely Mohs 8 and just does not want to wear out. It has a high toughness. I do have a quick way of telling how to measure media effectiveness and that is the 48 hour big rock AO 80 runs in the Vibrasonic. I used glass recently and it wanted to take forever, estimating 6 to 8 days. I went back to the same agate media and 48 hours did the trick. As it has a many times. I have a big rock running again in this high dense media. I will know soon enough. I will not count this first run running now because the media was virgin and rough. I did check the rock this morning after 18 hours and it is ahead of schedule in polish. Looking good. I could not care less if the time for agate media is 48 hours and the time for dense media is 30 hours on Mohs 7 rocks. Other than it made a difference. I do want to reduce the long run times for soft rocks. Like obsidian taking 8 to 10 days. So dense media may well damage obsidian. If so then lightweight media may be the best way, along with long run times. Dense media is a basic approach to speeding up abrasive operations. So why not give it a go. But tender metal parts can get damaged from dense media. So it has effects.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 13:22:55 GMT -5
I don't think I am interested in rolling rocks with (expensive) ceramic media at 55 RPM and SiC 30. Maybe other ceramic media does not wear so fast. OK in vibe with fine abrasives, not in rotary w/coarse grit. 48 hours at 55 RPM siC 30 and 6 inch barrel, my fastest mode Virgin vs 48 hours in 30, started at 7.9mm and ended at 7.5mm. 5% loss ?
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Post by pauls on Nov 24, 2017 14:53:17 GMT -5
Probably the Zirconia is present as Zirconium Nitride, a different material than cubic Zirconia (Zirconium dioxide)
Zirconium Nitride is used to coat machine tools to improve their wear resistance.
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Post by parfive on Nov 24, 2017 15:49:24 GMT -5
0.2mm loss in diameter ≈ 14.4% loss in volume, assuming similar wear to length.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 16:03:55 GMT -5
0.2mm loss in diameter ≈ 14.4% loss in volume, assuming similar wear to length. Yep. Loss in diameter is not very representative of the real loss. The volume loss much uglier. .4mm(did you mean .2mm or .4mm) loss in diameter not representative of the real damage, the volume. Good crunching Rich.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 16:04:56 GMT -5
Probably the Zirconia is present as Zirconium Nitride, a different material than cubic Zirconia (Zirconium dioxide) Zirconium Nitride is used to coat machine tools to improve their wear resistance. Material Data Sheets called it zirconium silicate if I remember correctly pauls. orthosilicate and titanium dioxide. Sounds NASA
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 16:13:54 GMT -5
Failure failure failure. Gotta satisfy curiosity. This stuff prevents polish to rocks. This stuff removes polish off of rocks. Back to the ole agate media. I will use it for metal operations, I know it works for that. After 48 hours the 1 pound 14 ounce agate in the center stayed matte. The agate in the center lost it's wet shine in 16 hours running in AO polish.
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Post by parfive on Nov 24, 2017 16:35:55 GMT -5
Thinking diameter, typed radius number. Feckin eejit.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 17:19:20 GMT -5
Thinking diameter, typed radius number. Feckin eejit. D squared over 4, R squared over 1 thing. Been there
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 24, 2017 17:25:27 GMT -5
Just hit me. Blue slurry. Finally found an abrasive that eats blue Vibrasonic liner. Bottom of hopper roughed to touch. Never experienced that one.
Even running SiC 30 make no blue slurry. Nor does it rough up the bottom of the hopper.
Buying rogue used ceramic media is not a good idea. Best bet is use the Rock Shed's if using ceramic media.
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