jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2017 9:38:00 GMT -5
HDPE pipe. And brush up on welding HDPE. Done it in a past life. Google 'HDPE SDR 11 pipe'. 8 inch pipe runs about $14 per foot. 8 5/8" OD, 7" ID, that equates to 3/4" wall thickness. I am going to start out with 6 7/8" sch 11 pipe end caps since they are already a half a barrel and cheap on Ebay. Since using bulk SiC barrel wear has been an issue. Fast rock wear = fast barrel wear, simple as that. Benefit is it saves money on coarse SiC. This is a 6 7/8" end cap. Two welded together, or an end plate welded/attached to one unit to open end depending on size of barrel. End cap, should be close to 3/4" thick grrr.: Welding 2 together is basic. Set 2 in separate frying pans on edge at ~400F for calculated time in video and stick together on V-blocks. Dealing with short sections of pipe eliminates the need for $100,000 field welding machine. Doing in frying pan is also good enough for 200 psi quality welds. Start at 1 minute:
|
|
tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
|
Post by tkvancil on Dec 10, 2017 12:43:01 GMT -5
You could always just buy a nice Lortone barrel .... But what kind of fun would that be?
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2017 14:16:06 GMT -5
You could always just buy a nice Lortone barrel .... But what kind of fun would that be? Apparently the desire to build/modify supersedes rock beautification. Lortone barrels are hard to beat. Never known one to wear out.
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Dec 10, 2017 14:52:51 GMT -5
If you get a fiberglass kit and mix the epoxy with a little SiC coarse grit then coat the inside of the drum with that it will reduce ware. But the down side is the drum would only be for coarse. Though coarse is where the ware is the biggest issue. As the grits get finer less ware on the drum.
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Dec 10, 2017 15:29:22 GMT -5
Great project.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2017 17:05:40 GMT -5
If you get a fiberglass kit and mix the epoxy with a little SiC coarse grit then coat the inside of the drum with that it will reduce ware. But the down side is the drum would only be for coarse. Though coarse is where the ware is the biggest issue. As the grits get finer less ware on the drum. Rolling this bulk SiC at 55 RPM is real nasty. double nasty. That's the reason for the bulletproof barrels@rmf. Plus I roll 2 pound rocks at times and they give some lid arrangements a hard time. I have tried epoxy and silicones and the main issue is moisture working at the contact point to PVC. Now moving to slick HDPE and not many glues stick to it. More like teflon. But it does melt together well. Claims that PDPE melt joints are stronger than the pipe itself.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 10, 2017 17:10:48 GMT -5
This HDPE pipe has recently come of age for utility lines. So the price on the thick pipe has become surprisingly cheap. A few home tooling rigs and it is possible to compete with factory barrels made in home shop. With faster access cap design and longer life. Will see. The beauty of welding is it is instant, allows high productivity. I need to find a product for my nephew to produce.
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Dec 10, 2017 22:20:03 GMT -5
I have only worked the $100,000 and up machines. I know some machines are semi manual 2 inch IPS and down.
HDPE needs to be squared up. After the pipe is set in a machine, the first step is to square the weld joints. It's cut with a blade. I recall the stuff as being "stringey", files and grinders equipped with sanding disc fuzzed it up like a chia pet. We would also square fittings. The pipe is exceptionally resistant to abrasion. The mining industry uses it to move slurries.
Heat and pressure to make the weld. It should show an even bulge next to the weld.
Your curiosity has me thinking. In the highest wear points of systems a product was used that was an epoxy and ceramic bead mixture. I have no recollection of having to repair the base metal on anything it protected.
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Dec 10, 2017 22:22:19 GMT -5
Some place around I have a slide tool to figure pressure and time on the heating plate for a proper weld.
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Dec 10, 2017 22:27:36 GMT -5
How fast does the coarse sic wear the barrel? I had figured you to develop a home size hammer mill to reduce the size of the grit.😁
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 0:26:46 GMT -5
You could always just buy a nice Lortone barrel .... But what kind of fun would that be? Apparently the desire to build/modify supersedes rock beautification. Lortone barrels are hard to beat. Never known one to wear out. Didya ever know one at all? Just curious ETA I was once a helper to an HDPE welding operation. Well.more of a welder and his kit. He repaired poly tanks in a chemical plant.... I was gopher. He had a "Tig" type setup with a hot air gun and HDPE rod used as fill. Heat up the joint until transparent and add the fill, all the way around. He was good. Never a leaker.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 0:27:29 GMT -5
How fast does the coarse sic wear the barrel? I had figured you to develop a home size hammer mill to reduce the size of the grit.😁 He did, it's more like a ball mill. It's his tumbler! 😀
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2017 2:23:32 GMT -5
Replacement Cutting Wheels for Tube and Pipe Cutters Qty. Each For Cutting Tubing Reed T10, T15, T20, TC1Q, TC2Q ABS, Polyethylene __ Steel __ 2527A15 $13.65 Reed T10, T15, T20, TC1Q, TC2Q CPVC, PVC __ Steel __ 2527A18 12.02 Reed TC3Q, TC4Q, TC5Q, TC6Q ABS, Polyethylene __ Steel __ 2527A16 11.96 youp50, The workers were carrying 50 foot steel pipes to the saw shop via overhead crane. sch 5 to sch 20, 4" to 16". It took them half a day just to make the trip to and from. So I sat around and welded up a bunch of giant pipe cutters using replacement cutters and wheels. We had a pipe rolling device in the department for winding fabrics on the pipes so we used it to spin the pipes and the pipe cutters cut the pipe. I got a big star for increasing production 30% my 3rd week on the job. They had been moving those pipes to the saw shop for 30 years lol. Buying the the big HDPE end caps should solve cutting/squaring the pipe. I'll saw one of those 6 pound sch 40 PVC barrels in half long ways on a band saw when they wear thru. The cross section will show the wear points. SiC 30 does not wear barrels so much. But broken up SiC grinding wheel chunks and bulk SiC is another story. I prefer the bulk SiC because I don't have to add grit frequently since it lasts longer. And it cuts rocks fast. Bulk SiC at 46 cents per pound verses $2+ per pound for screened SiC. Density of PVC = 1.4 Density of HDPE = .97 So HDPE is much lighter in weight than PVC.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2017 3:04:30 GMT -5
Apparently the desire to build/modify supersedes rock beautification. Lortone barrels are hard to beat. Never known one to wear out. Didya ever know one at all? Just curious ETA I was once a helper to an HDPE welding operation. Well.more of a welder and his kit. He repaired poly tanks in a chemical plant.... I was gopher. He had a "Tig" type setup with a hot air gun and HDPE rod used as fill. Heat up the joint until transparent and add the fill, all the way around. He was good. Never a leaker. Lots of Youtube videos by kayak owners modifying their HDPE kayaks for rod holders, depth finders, storage vessels. Same game as you were involved in Scott, HDPE tanks no different. This Weller 175 will deep weld 1/4" and thicker HDPE in a quickness. Better if you cut strips of HDPE from a 55 gallon drum for rods. Not much different than using a hot glue gun except the glue is scrap HDPE. You would like the stand alone backyard waterfall pond filters I made out of 60 gallon HDPE drums. The client would rock around them so they were hidden. Cantilevered pour spout, bulk head fittings welded in, internal filter rack tabs. 6 to 8 inch pipe is a perfect candidate for full heated joints on a kitchen stove using (flat)teflon frying pans. Set each pipe on the frying pan and set at 75% melt temp for a deep pre heat, then slowly crank it up till a melt starts.
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Dec 11, 2017 3:13:06 GMT -5
I cannot recall the wall thickness used in the mining industry. I know I have manually handled up to 6 in sch 80 pvc. HDPE is a different bird. It's the wall thickness. It may be lighter per unit of volume, lots of volume in the pipe makes it much heavier. It has killed miners that did not get out of the way when equipment hooked on to it.
I hope it welds out for you.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2017 3:30:38 GMT -5
I cannot recall the wall thickness used in the mining industry. I know I have manually handled up to 6 in sch 80 pvc. HDPE is a different bird. It's the wall thickness. It may be lighter per unit of volume, lots of volume in the pipe makes it much heavier. It has killed miners that did not get out of the way when equipment hooked on to it. I hope it welds out for you. Rubber would be better youp. It is best for resisting abrasive. Like a Lortone tumbling barrel. 1/4" to 3/8" thick and lasts for generations. The Lortone barrels sealing system gives me some problems leaking when spinning at fast speeds and the cap has to be real clean to seal. I am spoiled from using Fernco caps. Band clamp and a nut driver, and it seals with minimum of cleaning. You are correct, the 3/4" thick walls makes for a heavy barrel. Not to bad for 6 to 12 pound barrels. If the HDPE pipe resists wear sch 13-15-17-22-27.6-33-41 is available with thinner walls.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 10:03:52 GMT -5
That's badass
ETA Cutting and squaring should be the same operation. Just like your steel cutter. Pipe rolls on skateboard wheels and chop saw blade cute.
Planning on using a hinge and a couple clamps and my 4" angle grinder for the saw part. Already got a bunch of skateboard wheels and trucks off of $5 skateboards.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2017 10:04:55 GMT -5
@shotgunner those HDPE barrels used on cab machines and super grinders may benefit from such welding methods
as far as tumbler barrels you will not find a more heavy duty product than HDPE pipes for the money. Eliminates the need for expensive fittings too. 5/8" or 3/4" white butcher block might be HDPE, comes cheap. It may be nylon, not sure.
band saw with circle cutter to cut plugs. drill press wit 4" forsner bit to cut hole in entry side
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Dec 11, 2017 12:55:28 GMT -5
That's badass ETA Cutting and squaring should be the same operation. Just like your steel cutter. Pipe rolls on skateboard wheels and chop saw blade cute. Planning on using a hinge and a couple clamps and my 4" angle grinder for the saw part. Already got a bunch of skateboard wheels and trucks off of $5 skateboards. FWIW the 100k machines use a rotating plate with a knife on it. Similar to a one bladed potato slicer. The cut is square and clean. A full and complete weld is required by industry. A poor weld on a barrel may make a mess, but on a much smaller scale than a double ended pipe rupture at a plant
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,548
|
Post by jamesp on Dec 11, 2017 17:46:49 GMT -5
Went dumpster diving and found what looks to be sch 17 8 inch pipe. Dimensions close to that anyway. MrP... Surprised how lightweight it is considering the volume of plastic. Plan to practice some welds if I can master a square cut. Two pairs of rollers on the top of a wood table saw can be accurate. Or 2 lengths of angle iron lined up and clamped to saw table to create a saddle to rotate pipe in. I used to cut 60 gallon plastic drums in half for plant pots using such. The force of the blade cutting rotates it, you must hold back on it or it will run away. Will cut 4 to 6 three inch lengths and practice welding them using a frying pan. Then do 8 pound sledge hammer test . Gotta be strong for tumbler. 5 feet long and abused. sch 17 plenty thick enough. sch 11 quite bit thicker/heavier - 11 is overkill if this stuff wears slow. Much softer than PVC so should be quiter.
|
|