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Post by arghvark on Feb 21, 2018 11:49:55 GMT -5
It seems pretty clear that all other things being equal, softer rocks generate a lovely slurry more quickly than harder ones. I've been thinking about adding maybe 1/4 softer stuff to loads of agate to shorten that initial slurry prodiction period, especially in the smaller barrels. Anyone else do this?
First experiment would be with stuff I don't care much about. But since I'm basically a child, I check each load every 3-4 days to a week. So I'm not too worried about them being "bouffé" (french slang for basically "gobbled up").
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nileriver
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Post by nileriver on Feb 21, 2018 17:24:55 GMT -5
For an immediate, and non-rock sacrificing slurry, lots of people on here use clay, obtained from the ground or (more commonly) from basic cat litter. Other thickening agents mentioned: Metamucil, sugar, Borax, slurry from a previous tumble. Probably others I can't recall.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 21, 2018 17:34:37 GMT -5
I reuse my slurry from previous tumbling...Keep it by the gallons.. Only use it in the 1st stages of tumbling.. Just add the grit, slurry and a way it rolls..
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 21, 2018 17:40:15 GMT -5
It seems pretty clear that all other things being equal, softer rocks generate a lovely slurry more quickly than harder ones. I've been thinking about adding maybe 1/4 softer stuff to loads of agate to shorten that initial slurry prodiction period, especially in the smaller barrels. Anyone else do this? First experiment would be with stuff I don't care much about. But since I'm basically a child, I check each load every 3-4 days to a week. So I'm not too worried about them being "bouffé" (french slang for basically "gobbled up"). Heck yes. soapstone for a fast slurry in any situation softer grades of rhyolite - vibe softer grades of basalt - vibe felspar added with agate and Mohs 7 stones in the last coarse grit run, it has a high composition of aluminum oxide. Makes 220 step a breeze or even unnecessary. Clay clods/powdered clay is best and don't forget limestone like the limestone coating on this silicified coral before and after(dirty before, white after)  Milk of Magnesia slurry, tasty  white slurry hand disease  |
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 21, 2018 18:21:23 GMT -5
Surprised you didn't show the white-slurried dog!
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Post by aDave on Feb 21, 2018 19:21:08 GMT -5
I reuse my slurry from previous tumbling...Keep it by the gallons.. Only use it in the 1st stages of tumbling.. Just add the grit, slurry and a way it rolls.. I'm pretty much with Mike on this. I save old dried coarse slurry for use in the first stage. Personally, and it's my humble opinion only, I wouldn't want to use sacrificial rocks as the initial volume of material helps cushion things if the load is done right. If it goes away too fast, now there's more space for the rocks to bang away in. In that respect, simply stick with an additive...unscented, non-clumping, old fashioned clay kitty litter or old slurry. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 22, 2018 6:12:38 GMT -5
I reuse my slurry from previous tumbling...Keep it by the gallons.. Only use it in the 1st stages of tumbling.. Just add the grit, slurry and a way it rolls.. I'm pretty much with Mike on this. I save old dried coarse slurry for use in the first stage. Personally, and it's my humble opinion only, I wouldn't want to use sacrificial rocks as the initial volume of material helps cushion things if the load is done right. If it goes away too fast, now there's more space for the rocks to bang away in. In that respect, simply stick with an additive...unscented, non-clumping, old fashioned clay kitty litter or old slurry. Great point Dave. And if I wait 3 hours for the softest soapstone to breakdown my load of glass has 100's of edge chips because it was rolling in water. Then the punch in the face you mentioned when the volume reduces to 60 ? 65 ? 70 percent barrel fill. I have to maintain a minimum 80% fill or here comes the chips. I don't walk away from glass in the rotary until the slurry is correct consistency. Sometimes it takes an hour adding and subtracting clay until the slurry is a perfect consistency. However the coral has a soft limestone coating of which I always wanted to grind of as fast as possible. Starting with a watery slurry it beats the limestone off in a hurry only to make a fine slurry as the rock level drops from 85% to about 65%. Harmonious slurry production in coordination with a reducing rock volume. In this case I am pouring off slurry as the grind goes on. Coral was my first tumble and for years. This is what taught me about slurry. Keep in mind, limestone does not create colloidal clay. Most clays are made up of close-to-round particles. The finest slurry clay in the world is colloidal. Clay(kaolin) made up of felspar platelet shaped particles that are slowest to sink. For instance the ink in paints is suspended by kaolin platelet clay. A bucket of paint has a high percentage kaolin. Or felspar however you want to look at it. Most kaolin comes from eroded granite because granite is full of felspar. As an added bonus felspar has a high content of aluminum oxide. And this was an odd discovery. I was running about 30% soft rhyolite in the vibe with clear glass/220 abrasive and ended up with a polish prematurely. Apparently the fine grained rhyolite shed abrasives that made a polish. The rhyolite only shrunk in size a bit but it darkened the vibe slurry. The clear glass did not darken the slurry so it was obvious that the rhyolite had worn off and helped create a vibe slurry. I am not so sure that some basalts would not behave as the rhyolite did. Both probably have composition similar to "solid pumice", a fine glass abrasive. I thought about replacing my 50% vibe media with 50% pea gravel sized rhyolite media and see if the rhyolite would polish glass in the vibe. |
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Daimon
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Post by Daimon on Feb 24, 2018 14:59:23 GMT -5
I reuse my slurry from previous tumbling...Keep it by the gallons.. Only use it in the 1st stages of tumbling.. Just add the grit, slurry and a way it rolls.. I'm pretty much with Mike on this. I save old dried coarse slurry for use in the first stage. Personally, and it's my humble opinion only, I wouldn't want to use sacrificial rocks as the initial volume of material helps cushion things if the load is done right. If it goes away too fast, now there's more space for the rocks to bang away in. In that respect, simply stick with an additive...unscented, non-clumping, old fashioned clay kitty litter or old slurry. How do you get the dried slurry fluid again? Because I live in a 5th floor apartment I can't easily dispose of the slurry so, I empty the barrel into a large bucket. Then I wash the rocks over another bucket. The original slurry has set rock hard and I will eventually either hack it out or buy a new bucket. I'm new to this and have only emptied 3 x 1.5lb of stage 1 grit into the bucket so far, and each time I have put fresh water and grit into the barrel. If I'm reading you right, can I use this slurry, with fresh grit, the next time I start a batch of rocks? |
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Post by aDave on Feb 24, 2018 15:46:55 GMT -5
I'm pretty much with Mike on this. I save old dried coarse slurry for use in the first stage. Personally, and it's my humble opinion only, I wouldn't want to use sacrificial rocks as the initial volume of material helps cushion things if the load is done right. If it goes away too fast, now there's more space for the rocks to bang away in. In that respect, simply stick with an additive...unscented, non-clumping, old fashioned clay kitty litter or old slurry. How do you get the dried slurry fluid again? Because I live in a 5th floor apartment I can't easily dispose of the slurry so, I empty the barrel into a large bucket. Then I wash the rocks over another bucket. The original slurry has set rock hard and I will eventually either hack it out or buy a new bucket. I'm new to this and have only emptied 3 x 1.5lb of stage 1 grit into the bucket so far, and each time I have put fresh water and grit into the barrel. If I'm reading you right, can I use this slurry, with fresh grit, the next time I start a batch of rocks? Yes, you are reading me correctly. Here's what I do...not too dissimilar than what you're doing. I do live in a house which gives me access to a yard to dump slurry, but I just don't want to dump it all over the place. Rocks are dumped into a colander which is resting on top of a 5 gallon plastic bucket. Slurry goes into the bucket, and I do a quick rinse which catches additional water. I remove the colander and finish washing, but again I have a yard that is easy to do that in. The bucket with the slurry is set aside which allows most of the sediment to settle to the bottom over the course of a few days. Then, I find a place to pour off the "cleaner" water which leaves me mud at the bottom of the bucket. That is set aside and the cake is allowed to harden. To remove the dried slurry, I just bang the bucket against the concrete. The dried mud breaks apart and is easy to remove at that point. Usually, I am dealing with caked slurry that is no more than 1 inch thick or so, but no matter the thickness you have, it will still probably be removable. After removing the dry slurry, I simply bag it up and pulverize it further. It will become powderlike to a degree, and that is what I add to fresh grit and water in the coarse stage each week. No need to rehydrate in advance, as the water in the barrel will do so. Following this procedure allows me to restart each week with slurry in the barrel right away, and it cuts down on the amount I have to dispose of. But, if I do need to throw some away, dried slurry can just be thrown in the trash. Hope that makes sense, and hope that helps. |
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Daimon
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Post by Daimon on Feb 24, 2018 15:55:16 GMT -5
Thanks aDave that makes perfect sense to me. As for my good lady, she's still a bit puzzled about why I have a little black barrel rolling around in the corner and a bucket of mud next to it !!
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Post by aDave on Feb 24, 2018 16:24:48 GMT -5
Thanks aDave that makes perfect sense to me. As for my good lady, she's still a bit puzzled about why I have a little black barrel rolling around in the corner and a bucket of mud next to it !! FWIW, I am using about 5 heaping tablespoons in each 6 pound barrel that I have. That leaves me with a gravy like slurry. Not too thick, and not too thin. I could probably add another, but I'm pleased with my results thus far. Good luck. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 25, 2018 8:39:46 GMT -5
Slurry is basically clay since both are created from eroding rocks.
I use the local clay from a particular little pit because it is repeatable and stays in emulsion.
I can count on measuring the dose and getting the same slurry each time.
Slurry from tumbling glass and obsidian for example settles quickly and concretes at the bottom of the barrel minutes after stopping the rotation.
This is not good as it takes a long time to let go of the rocks it concreted.
Point being is that rock slurries are not consistent and I avoid them.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 25, 2018 9:21:13 GMT -5
Consider using a plastic liner to save your buckets.
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Post by arghvark on Mar 14, 2018 16:56:44 GMT -5
Been a while since I've visited. I never expected this question generate such a lively discussion with so many great tips.
Thanks to all!
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 14, 2018 23:15:15 GMT -5
I usually duke-it-out with my feline house-buddies and use kitty litter to thicken up a slurry that is too watery. In a reply to another member having issues with slurry thickeners I mentioned... If the slurry is too thin in the first stage 80 grit run... watery.. it needs to be thickened. The coarse 80 grit is heavy and will need help keeping in suspension where it can get between the rocks for a good grind. I use 2-3 TBS of clay kitty litter to thicken the consistency of the first stage slurry (this is NOT necessary in the other stages where the grits are finer and more easily moved around by the water). Try to use the cheapest clay kitty litter with the fewest smell pretty and soak-em-up clumpy crystals. These can sometimes react to the rock shavings to create gas buildup. No biggie... If the drum back side begins to bulge out like a balloon after a few days just pop the lid and burp it. Do not use the Kitty litter right away. Let the tumble go 3-4 days and then make that decision. There are some types of stones that will cause a thick+++ slurry all by themselves. Adding too much kitty litter thickener will cause the slurry to turn into a thick paste and stop all tumbling action inside the drum. (Note: It DOES look kind of cool when you see the rocks plastered to the side walls... just add a little water and use a cooking spatula to scrape the mix around and blend it up... then resume the tumble. No harm done.) Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/82468/newbie-tumbling-observations-right-track#ixzz59msc11KV |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 15, 2018 5:29:41 GMT -5
I read an article about using colloidal clay as a slurry Glenn. It has a life. It can break down too. I start with about 10 cups of clay in a 15 pound barrel for hard agate that DOES NOT make any slurry in 3 to 4 days. As the rocks grind and the slurry thickens I open the barrel and drain some, then add fresh water to thin it to best consistency. This pour off and add is a bit tricky to get optimum consistency but you develop an instinct when using same barrel and same thickening agent. Going back to the article, the platelets in colloidal clay have a life and it depends on speeds, causticity, chemical composition and a dozen other factors. I settled on weekend clean outs WITH fresh clay and skipped the 'pour off and add water' trick. I never wait, I add the clay right from the start. I want those abrasive particles being carried to every rock right from the start. There are many clays. I know they fire colloidal kaolin clay for kitty litter here in Georgia because that is the most common clay here. They also fire round particle gumbo clay in Florida to make kitty litter. Guessing there is a dozen other type clays fired for kitty litter in this country. Just so happens colloidal clay is king of all slurry clays. You can google 'colloidal slurry'. Nothing suspends particles like colloidal clay. If you live in an area where your rivers stay muddy for a long time after a heavy rain you likely have colloidal clay. It is common in locations with a lot of exposed granite like eastern US and the felspar in the granite is the source of the colloids. This is NOT colloidal slurry, this is limestone or lime from tumbling limestone coated rocks. It is not colloidal but does a great job suspending abrasive particles. I do not need to add clay initially when tumbling limestone coated coral. Quite the contrary. I have to pour off the limestone milk shake about every day for 3 to 4 days. For that reason I do not add abrasives except some broken el cheapo aluminum oxide grinding wheels broken into ~1 inch chunks. otherwise I would be throwing away good silicon carbide. Once the limestone is worn off then clay is utilized. |
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 15, 2018 9:28:34 GMT -5
Very nice post jamesp. Thank you for the info. How does a stay-at-home person like me obtain a good colloidal clay product? I am very restricted in space and only have a few tumblers/vibs, and pretty much at the mercies of Amazon and the local supermarket or hardware store for supplies like clay products. That is why all of my experience is centered around kitty litter. |
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 15, 2018 9:34:53 GMT -5
Very nice post jamesp. Thank you for the info. How does a stay-at-home person like me obtain a good colloidal clay product? I am very restricted in space and only have a few tumblers/vibs, and pretty much at the mercies of Amazon and the local supermarket or hardware store for supplies like clay products. That is why all of my experience is centered around kitty litter. Are you not happy with what the cat litter is doing for you? I have been using it for a couple years with good results. It thickens the slurry nicely and carries the grit like James' Georgia clay. I went from 7 day cleanouts with sometimes watery slurry and grit in the bottom of the barrel, to 3-4 day cleanouts with nice smooth slurries and no leftover grit. |
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 15, 2018 9:36:02 GMT -5
My slurry just goes in gallon jugs as is "WET".... I just pour it out of my tumblers, than cap the jug and store it... I only do this on the first stages of tumbling.. Start a new barrel, add the rocks, the slurry than a bit more grit...Tumble away...
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 15, 2018 9:49:03 GMT -5
I HAVE had good results using kitty litter as a clay additive... I realize from reading some of these posts that there may be better substitutes (not necessarily cheaper or cleaner, but better..). For me a 10 lb. bag off the supermarket shelf goes a long way and is more convenient and less messy than recycling.
I have come to realize the importance of a good slurry and want to improve my tumbles.
Glenn
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... to the New Guy from The ChatBox V.2 Crew