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Post by 1dave on Mar 2, 2018 7:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 2, 2018 8:03:47 GMT -5
Judging by this statement: I'd say there is some politics involved- at least in the presentation.
If it's true then it's good news. I'm sure a lot factors went into it. The claim that outsourcing heavy industry is a factor is a bit troubling. I think I'd rather have industry here.
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Post by MrP on Mar 2, 2018 9:22:18 GMT -5
I retired last summer from a utility that worked at for 19 years. The recession starting 2008 had a large effect on electric growth. We were lucky because we had some large users come online to help replace the business that shut down. The other thing is that the electric industry has to spend whatever it takes to make a 3% reduction in use each year. It started as 3% of gross income to make whatever reduction you could make to having to make a 3% reduction. The low hanging fruit was CFL lighting then LED lighting. We had a data center that we spent 10's of thousands on to make it more energy efficient. In a 7-8 year period instead of having growth the usage went down about 14%. Not too many businesses have to spend money so they make less.......................................MrP
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Post by 1dave on Mar 2, 2018 9:23:58 GMT -5
Judging by this statement: I'd say there is some politics involved- at least in the presentation. If it's true then it's good news. I'm sure a lot factors went into it. The claim that outsourcing heavy industry is a factor is a bit troubling. I think I'd rather have industry here. I agree. Some factors not mentioned in the article are population growth and the coefficient of maintenance. St. George, just south of me is adding a thousand new homes every month! They need energy. Dust alone cuts the output of solar cells. sand blasting, unit failure, I see DOOM AND GLOOM for the industry. Same for those windmills. I wonder how many of them will still be functioning 20 years from now.
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Post by MrP on Mar 2, 2018 9:44:17 GMT -5
Judging by this statement: I'd say there is some politics involved- at least in the presentation. If it's true then it's good news. I'm sure a lot factors went into it. The claim that outsourcing heavy industry is a factor is a bit troubling. I think I'd rather have industry here. I agree. Some factors not mentioned in the article are population growth and the coefficient of maintenance. St. George, just south of me is adding a thousand new homes every month! They need energy. Dust alone cuts the output of solar cells. sand blasting, unit failure, I see DOOM AND GLOOM for the industry. Same for those windmills. I wonder how many of them will still be functioning 20 years from now. Dave: DOOM AND GLOOM for solar and wind? Sounds like you don't follow the industry. They are having great growth, BUT what they don't tell you it is mainly because of the state mandates for renewable energy. It is true that the installed cost have come way down but most installs have a government rebate attached to them. In Minnesota when a homeowner installs a system they will keep all snow off of it the first year but the second year they will only remove a large snowfall. By the third year they don't remove any snow. If a person buys a place with solar on it they also do nothing in the winter. We also had a commercial wind generator on our system that produced 16.9% of capacity in the 12 years I kept track of it........................MrP
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Post by 1dave on Mar 2, 2018 10:01:55 GMT -5
I agree. Some factors not mentioned in the article are population growth and the coefficient of maintenance. St. George, just south of me is adding a thousand new homes every month! They need energy. Dust alone cuts the output of solar cells. sand blasting, unit failure, I see DOOM AND GLOOM for the industry. Same for those windmills. I wonder how many of them will still be functioning 20 years from now. Dave: DOOM AND GLOOM for solar and wind? Sounds like you don't follow the industry. They are having great growth, BUT what they don't tell you it is mainly because of the state mandates for renewable energy. It is true that the installed cost have come way down but most installs have a government rebate attached to them. In Minnesota when a homeowner installs a system they will keep all snow off of it the first year but the second year they will only remove a large snowfall. By the third year they don't remove any snow. If a person buys a place with solar on it they also do nothing in the winter. We also had a commercial wind generator on our system that produced 16.9% of capacity in the 12 years I kept track of it........................MrP Time will tell. From my limited personal perspective I've had a couple of those new 10,000 year lasting LED light bulbs burn out, the windmill farm northwest of Milford Utah seldom shows movement, and the huge solar farm that was being built about 10 miles north of me went belly-up.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,694
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 2, 2018 11:16:25 GMT -5
Wind turbines, what a big joke!!! Oregon has their fill of them and our major power companies are involved with the new energy programs.. So our electric bills per month go through the roof!!! Most have about doubled! No thank you, give me oil, gas and coal any day!!!!
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Mar 2, 2018 11:26:14 GMT -5
Gimme clean nuke!
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Post by mohs on Mar 2, 2018 11:28:45 GMT -5
I want power!
mostly
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 12:27:59 GMT -5
Our electricity co-op has always relied 100% on hydropower. Rates have still been constantly rising, due more to grid prices than any cost increases. Aside from renewables, the big conservation savings have yet to be implemented. One of the big wastes is simply the huge losses in transmission and transformers. The power industry is extremely slow to adopt changes even when the savings are obvious and immediate. For example, HVDC lines which cut transmission losses are only now coming online in some areas - using technology developed in the 1930s. Much more efficient tech for transmission, switching, transformation and generation are out there (supercooled transmission and ballistic transport) and also beginning to come online internationally, though true to form, US utility companies are slow adopters and will probably adopt the latest in 1940s technology rather than leapfrogging to something more up-to-date.
Yes, I've also had some LED lamp failures since installing them 10 years ago (at least the prices have come down). The problem isn't with the LED itself, but the cheapo transformers they are putting in most of them. LED runs on DC and our variable AC power plays havoc with those tiny electronic transformers. I've had much less failure after installing a whole-house surge protector, but LEDs would work better/longer on a DC system (where you wouldn't need a transformer in each bulb).
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 2, 2018 12:34:57 GMT -5
Our electricity co-op has always relied 100% on hydropower. Rates have still been constantly rising, due more to grid prices than any cost increases. Aside from renewables, the big conservation savings have yet to be implemented. One of the big wastes is simply the huge losses in transmission and transformers. The power industry is extremely slow to adopt changes even when the savings are obvious and immediate. For example, HVDC lines which cut transmission losses are only now coming online in some areas - using technology developed in the 1930s. Much more efficient tech for transmission, switching, transformation and generation are out there (supercooled transmission and ballistic transport) and also beginning to come online internationally, though true to form, US utility companies are slow adopters and will probably adopt the latest in 1940s technology rather than leapfrogging to something more up-to-date. Yes, I've also had some LED lamp failures since installing them 10 years ago (at least the prices have come down). The problem isn't with the LED itself, but the cheapo transformers they are putting in most of them. LED runs on DC and our variable AC power plays havoc with those tiny electronic transformers. I've had much less failure after installing a whole-house surge protector, but LEDs would work better/longer on a DC system (where you wouldn't need a transformer in each bulb). Can I just say how much I enjoy reading your posts? A like just wasn't good enough. I, too, wonder why we are still using technology from the Cowboy days. I have a worry about coronal ejection or EMP as well. I think something better can be done to update and secure the grid. I just had 4 led bulbs blow. All at the same time, all installed at the same time. They were only about 2 years old. Thank God they are cheaper now.
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lookatthat
Cave Dweller
Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
Posts: 1,360
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Post by lookatthat on Mar 2, 2018 12:43:12 GMT -5
when my great-uncle died, he'd had one bulb in his house that had been in continual use for 40 years or more. No one was sure exactly how long, since it had "always been there" plugged in and on. I think it was a GE experimental bulb (?). It was one of the first things the relatives took when it was time to divy up the estate.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 13:49:33 GMT -5
I have a worry about coronal ejection or EMP as well. Goodness yes, I worry about those, too. We've been lucky so far, but what happens when we have another coronal mass ejection at anything remotely approaching the level of the 1859 direct hit. Worrying because we've become so dependent on our grid and electronic devices. Apart from destroying electrical infrastructure, with so little on paper these days, are our investment, financial, medical and other data safe on hardened systems? Maybe 1dave knows something about our preparedness (or lack of) for such events? when my great-uncle died, he'd had one bulb in his house that had been in continual use for 40 years or more. No one was sure exactly how long, since it had "always been there" plugged in and on. I think it was a GE experimental bulb (?). It was one of the first things the relatives took when it was time to divy up the estate. I remember seeing one of Edison's bulbs that was still burning. I'm thinking that was at Greenfield Village south of Detroit in the 1960s. They never turned it off. It was DC, which was what Edison almost went bankrupt trying to promote. I recall back when we never bought light bulbs. The local utility gave them out free, and of course they pushed the higher wattages ![P-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/pirate.png)
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,642
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Post by Mark K on Mar 2, 2018 14:35:17 GMT -5
. The problem isn't with the LED itself, but the cheapo transformers they are putting in most of them. LED runs on DC and our variable AC power plays havoc with those tiny electronic transformers. I've had much less failure after installing a whole-house surge protector, but LEDs would work better/longer on a DC system (where you wouldn't need a transformer in each bulb). Makes you wonder when they will begin adding surges to cause failure of energy efficient items. (which they have stock, or own part of)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 16:48:08 GMT -5
Makes you wonder when they will begin adding surges to cause failure of energy efficient items. (which they have stock, or own part of) At some level, I think they'll cry all the way to the bank when those transformers fail. Since the whole-house surge suppressor was installed, I have noticed that the fluorescent tubes in the shop seem to be lasting longer. Just waiting for them all to burn out so that I can replace them with LEDs (not so much for energy efficiency, but because the fluorescents take forever to brighten out there during winter).
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Post by MrP on Mar 2, 2018 17:35:07 GMT -5
A power dip is easy, somebody hits a line or a large equipment failure to ground but it is hard for a power company to supply the type of surge needed to cause household electric equipment to fail. Sometimes if everything wrong closing a capacitor bank in can cause a surge but that is rare. Lighting is the cause of most surges. If a voltage regulator is not set right it can allow the voltage to rise above 127 volts, which light bulbs and some other equipment do not like........................MrP
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