ohthatspretty
starting to shine!
Member since March 2018
Posts: 28
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Post by ohthatspretty on Mar 18, 2018 17:53:15 GMT -5
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Post by MsAli on Mar 18, 2018 18:40:52 GMT -5
Overall not bad for 1st time I think the biggest lesson I've learned was to tumble like hardness, be patient and lots of cushioning in the final stages. Good luck on your second batch
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 18, 2018 18:50:25 GMT -5
Those look good. Take it from another newbie, I've only got a couple batches more under my belt, but you'll find just about every batch presents another opportunity to learn something. This forum is an outstanding place to get help, or just show off what you've already done.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 19, 2018 9:33:03 GMT -5
The shaping may not be the greatest, but the shine is pretty amazing, and the photos are really good too. If you don't like them you can always run them through again.
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 19, 2018 9:43:11 GMT -5
There is still much more to learn by screwing up. Those look darn good for your first time! Keep at it and keep notes as to what works for you and what doesn’t. For vibes, the less grit the better.
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ohthatspretty
starting to shine!
Member since March 2018
Posts: 28
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Post by ohthatspretty on Mar 19, 2018 12:26:25 GMT -5
There is still much more to learn by screwing up. Those look darn good for your first time! Keep at it and keep notes as to what works for you and what doesn’t. For vibes, the less grit the better. That is what I am actually always preaching. A mistake is only really a mistake if you fail to learn from it. A mistake you learn from is really just a lesson.
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 19, 2018 13:12:09 GMT -5
I think you did VERY well Josh! I agree with the comments of other members... Double or triple the time in the rotary tumbler 80 grit stage, and try to match hardness to the loads.
This will be difficult because a 6 yr old's patience usually does not last long. Get her involved in the grit change out every week... let her own it.
I go through a lot of coarse grit, and get mine from the Rock Shed in South Dakota. They also sell the pre-measured packs, but I have found buying by the pound was more economical. The tumbler manuals usually call for WAY more grit than you need... so your partial use of the first packet was probably enough... just repeat the first Stage more times.
You are doing well1d
Glenn
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 19, 2018 14:53:31 GMT -5
Not a bad looking first batch at all. Don't be too hard on yourself. Sounds like you are hooked.
I am confused by your statement that you did not run the second stage and 1200 stage long enough? In a vibe tumbler all stages are basically 24-48 hours each. The action in a vibe tumbler breaks the grit down really fast.
You also mention stage two and then 1200? Was there a step in between those? A run in 500-600 is the most common third stage.
There are a few people using different approaches but the mainstream method for those using a rotary and then a vibe look like this.
stage one: rotary with one tablespoon per pound of rock using 60/90 or 46/70 grit until you are happy with the overall look of the stones. Some want flawless some want to retain the natural look.
stage two: vibratory with 220 graded or 120/220 grit at 2 tablespoons per 3 pounds of rock for 24-48 hours
stage three: vibratory with 500 or 600 grit at 1/2 teaspoon per 3 pounds of rock for 24-48 hours
stage four (OPTIONAL): vibratory with 1000 grit at 1/2 teaspoon per 3 pounds of rock for 24-48 hours
stage five: vibratory with A/O polish (14000 grit) at 1/2 teaspoon per 3 pounds of rock for 24-48 hours
What rotary and what vibe tumbler are you using?
Chuck
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ohthatspretty
starting to shine!
Member since March 2018
Posts: 28
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Post by ohthatspretty on Mar 19, 2018 19:49:05 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 3a and a Diamond Pacific MT-10 Basically it's like this. I got this grit package from amazon. 3A tumbled for exactly seven days with 60 SiC Stage two was 220 SiC and brand new ceramic pellets - couldn't get the tumbling action right and broke through the bottom of the hopper on BOTH hoppers. They were threadbare on the unit I purchased. I got new hoppers and ran 220 again for two days, but I know that my slurry was wrong Stage three was SiC 500- Again my tumbling action was off and I didn't have a real understanding of what I was looking for the vibe to do. I looked all over the net and couldn't find a single video clip of my unit in action. Stage four was AO 1200 - I found a couple of really useful posts on this site that cleared things up on what I am looking for as far as action, slurry, and how to get it there. At this point I was actually more interested in getting the equipment and method dialed in then I was in getting the rocks to perfection. I ran the 1200 for three days until you see the semi polish is the pictures above. I don't have AO polish......yet. Next batch is going to be far better and I am really looking forward to it.
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 19, 2018 20:17:17 GMT -5
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nchillbilly
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2018
Posts: 212
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Post by nchillbilly on Mar 19, 2018 20:25:15 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 3a and a Diamond Pacific MT-10 Basically it's like this. I got this grit package from amazon. 3A tumbled for exactly seven days with 60 SiC Stage two was 220 SiC and brand new ceramic pellets - couldn't get the tumbling action right and broke through the bottom of the hopper on BOTH hoppers. They were threadbare on the unit I purchased. I got new hoppers and ran 220 again for two days, but I know that my slurry was wrong Stage three was SiC 500- Again my tumbling action was off and I didn't have a real understanding of what I was looking for the vibe to do. I looked all over the net and couldn't find a single video clip of my unit in action. Stage four was AO 1200 - I found a couple of really useful posts on this site that cleared things up on what I am looking for as far as action, slurry, and how to get it there. At this point I was actually more interested in getting the equipment and method dialed in then I was in getting the rocks to perfection. I ran the 1200 for three days until you see the semi polish is the pictures above. I don't have AO polish......yet. Next batch is going to be far better and I am really looking forward to it. You are definitely "hooked". I find myself doing the same thing. I run a batch, learn something that improves my work, and almost before I finish cleaning up one batch, I'm looking forward to starting on the next batch.
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 19, 2018 20:29:39 GMT -5
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 19, 2018 21:55:57 GMT -5
ohthatspretty how did you wear through the hopper like that? Were you tumbling live sharks??
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Post by gmitch067 on Mar 19, 2018 23:56:42 GMT -5
Sounds like the person he purchased the MT-10 from had used it in ALL stages and the coarse grit wore out the hoppers (he had to replace both). It DOES state in the user's manual that it can be used as a Stage-1 machine.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2018 3:30:07 GMT -5
ohthatspretty how did you wear through the hopper like that? Were you tumbling live sharks?? I tried some ceramic media that has abrasive AO fused into it and it chewed up the blue Vibrasonic hopper. Learned there are different types of ceramic media, some fused with AO polish and others fused with larger aggressive AO particles for coarse grinding. The Vibrasonic hopper is untouched by SiC 30 but that aggressive media made blue slurry from the blue hopper liner. Could not figure out where the blue slurry was coming from till I did a clean out and noticed the liner was rough to the touch. However this abrasive media rounds glass well in the rotary without using any powdered abrasive and protects it from bruising at the same time. Initially expensive but reusable many times. Abrasive media = live sharks "The density of ceramic preformed shapes is usually determined by the amount of abrasive incorporated into the mix prior to firing - the more abrasive, the higher the density. This is important because the higher the density, the more "aggressive" the ceramic media will be (faster cutting, rougher surface) and the quicker it will wear. Therefore, dense media is only practical where the objectives cannot be achieved any other way or where the reduction in cycle time brings a greater value than the extra cost in media consumption. The type and quantity of abrasive grain can be varied to accomplish particular tasks, depending on the bond selected." www.kramerindustriesonline.com/tumbling-media/ceramic-media.htm
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ohthatspretty
starting to shine!
Member since March 2018
Posts: 28
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Post by ohthatspretty on Mar 20, 2018 5:40:09 GMT -5
With that in mind James, Let me ask you this.....
I read somewhere that I should use ceramic media that has been run through my courser cycles in my polishing stages.
Since I don't know what type of ceramic I have (although it feels very smooth to the touch) would I be better of ditching it in the final stages?
I was surprised when I got my new hoppers and saw how thick and rigid the plastic is on these. when I got the machine from ebay the bottom of the hoppers I received with it were soft and flexed like rubber. I honestly thought that was a design feature of the machine. LOL. Apparently not.
I did experiment with additives on the final stage of 1200 on that batch and got a really nice slurry. It was something like a tablespoon of water, a heaping teaspoon of 1200 and a heaping teaspoon of Borax and about 4 drops of handsoap. I put it in and went to work. After I got home (14 hours later) I found most of the pellets cemented to the round portions of the hopper and the remaining stones chattering noisily. I shut it down and scraped the pellets from the wall, added some water(another tablespoon or so) and she went to work happily. It never dried out again in the following three days, but I did add a few drops of water every morning and every evening. Seems like the Borax takes a while to absorb the water, then turns really thick if it doesn't have enough. That too was a valuable lesson for me.
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ohthatspretty
starting to shine!
Member since March 2018
Posts: 28
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Post by ohthatspretty on Mar 20, 2018 5:50:14 GMT -5
gmitch: thanks for the links. I am going to repost the MiniSonic youtube clip on here for anyone else interested. MiniSonic or MT-10 Courtesy of amygdule
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2018 6:07:40 GMT -5
Yes, tumble new ceramic media to make it smooth. ***Ceramic media made for polishing like the Rock Shed sells.
If you bought used rogue ceramic media off of Ebay for instance I would get rid of it and buy it from the Rock Shed. There is a 100 different types of ceramic media, only a few of them are made for polishing.
Maybe Mini Sonic made flexible rubber hoppers at one time. Call them and ask. I would rather have 1/4" thick flexible rubber hoppers than these 3/4" Plastisol hard plastic hoppers any day. You can search Plastisol, it is a cast able plastic, perhaps PVC composition. Rubber is the coup de gras of abrasion resistance. The harder the plastic the faster it abrades. Hope that Michelin starts making rotary barrels some day, tire rubber is as abrasion resistant as it gets.
As far as using 1200 I don't, nor do I use ceramic media any longer. I only use coarse grit(rotary) and and a fine grit(vibe). Occasionally polish(vibe). Quartz pea gravel for media. I am not sure why people use 3 and 4 steps in a vibe. To each his own.
" I found most of the pellets cemented to the round portions of the hopper and the remaining stones chattering noisily" What pellets are you referring too ? The ceramic media ? No matter, if you cemented you did not have enough water. Vibes are like concrete, a bit to much water and it causes problems, a bit too little water and it causes problems. I don't use Borax either because it is too moisture sensitive.
So I am of little help to you. Sorry.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 20, 2018 6:10:24 GMT -5
amygdule is quite familiar with the Mini Sonic as gmitch067 mentioned and extremely helpful with a project I had using the Mini sonic hoppers. IMO the Mini Sonic hopper is the best design on the market. It has a round profile and requires little stimulation to get the rocks to start rolling. Perfect design for soft materials. Yet narrow enough to prevent big rocks walking to the left and small rocks walking to the right.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Mar 20, 2018 10:07:58 GMT -5
amygdule is quite familiar with the Mini Sonic as gmitch067 mentioned and extremely helpful with a project I had using the Mini sonic hoppers. IMO the Mini Sonic hopper is the best design on the market. It has a round profile and requires little stimulation to get the rocks to start rolling. Perfect design for soft materials. Yet narrow enough to prevent big rocks walking to the left and small rocks walking to the right. It better be.......at over $420.00 a pop for the duel 4lb hopper, it's price is nearly twice that of the Lot-O duel 4.5lb barrel...........Have a buddy who owns the single hopper Sonic and two dbl barrel Lot-O's......The Lot-O's are noisier, but from what I have seen from his results, the Lot-O win....hands down. He uses the Sonic for polishing soft material only now. He bought it first...........If this hobby sticks with me, The Lot-O will be my next "investment"....lol
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