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Post by aDave on Apr 12, 2018 11:49:56 GMT -5
Jim jamesp, I'm with everyone else on the comments, so no sense repeating all of them. However, I definitely agree with MrP about putting links to your current (and future) websites in your sig. With as many "visitors" and members that we have visit each day, and as prolific as your posts are, that's a bunch of potential exposure for you with very little effort. I do have a couple of thoughts though, but I'm assuming you have already put them on your "to do" list. When you end up doing your glass website, be sure to include photos of your brick add-on/studio. While that may not be your actual work area for this stuff, the photos that you have used on your other sites will add to the "handmade" aspect of the glass, simply due to the rustic appearance of the building, IMHO. That building is beautiful, and I think you should continue to showcase it in some fashion to help you sell. In your "about me" on your Etsy fire pits site, be sure to update it and include that you custom make glass cabs and be sure to mention your Etsy site there as well. I know you mention your wife's site, so I see no reason why you shouldn't do that with the glass site. I'm sure she can also mention your stuff as well on her end. Additionally, since your fire pits site is so prominent in Etsy, I'm left wondering if you can take advantage of that. I'm trying to figure out if you would be able to perhaps take a couple of photos with some cabs either in or around some pits, just to generate curiosity about what they are or where to get them. Looking for a snowball effect, of sorts. And lastly, along those lines, perhaps consider sending a couple cabs (not necessarily the good stuff) off to folks when they buy a pit...kind of as a thank you and a description of what they are. Your wife could do the same. This may help in a small degree simply by word of mouth. Perhaps your buyers aren't into jewelry making, but they know someone who is. Again, the snowball effect.
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,756
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Post by Tommy on Apr 12, 2018 11:59:26 GMT -5
jamesp, I'm seriously impressed at your vision and focus and determination in taking this from just something you were dabbling in and having fun with - to a well stocked Etsy store in such a short amount of time. I almost want to say "welcome to our world..." with the introduction to selling one-off pieces on Etsy. It's a whole different animal from selling a set product line where stability and SEO is everything. My head has been rattling with about 18 things I want to tell you since I first read this thread so the following is a random list of random thoughts that probably don't add a whole lot to what has already been said or thought about. I completely agree with what the others said about the word 'tumbling' and I'm glad to see you get it. Correct wording is not just something it's EVERYTHING. If it were me I would say something like "hand crafted" and "highly" or "expertly" polished. All of these are true even if the hand crafting was done with a hammer People don't have to know how you shaped OR polished the glass. Definitely play up the source of the material as "local artisan" - it's artsy and homey and immediately separates you from the cheap China imported crap that people are over-whelmed with. (Edited to add: I freakin love aDave's idea about showing the brick studio - brilliant! People love that stuff) You probably already know this but 'keywords' are everything. Etsy has stated that they are going to change the search dynamic but for now it remains - and this is the single most important piece of advice that ANY of us could offer - all of the words in your Title need to be repeated again in the Description and repeated again in the Tags. To accomplish this I keep a cheat-sheet taped beside my computer monitor. These are 20 character phrases (because 20 chars is the maximum tag) that I try to use in EVERY listing I post. For me it's phrases like "natural stone gem" or "artisan hand crafted" or "pendant jewelry bead." For you it might go in the direction of "lampwork cabochon" as well. I'll send you my complete cheat-sheet if you desire it. With these pre-determined 20-char phrases in place I leave room at the beginning of the title for three things - the short description (ie: poppy jasper cabochon) and the colors (ie: red black cab). In the title I separate each phrase with a comma so that the whole thing doesn't quite turn into a word salad and helps the eye read it. I copy the title, paste it into the description, then use it to create my 20-char tags - and yes, maximize both the title AND the tags - don't leave space for a single character unused if you can help it. Regarding photos - use ALL ten photos in various lights. I do like three to five angle photos in my make-shift light box, then one or two in hand under garage fluorescent, then move out my back door and get one in shadows and and one in direct light. I finish it with one shot against an 'L' scale for size reference. I'm only saying all these because it cuts down on busy-work, folks asking for other lighting photos and eliminating "it's too dark" complaints. Plus I get a lot of complements on showing every piece in various lights. As the others said - solid color background with uniform usage - in other words do the same thing every time. It really helps you with a consistent pattern of getting bunches of new items added plus it makes your shop look consistent and trustworthy. OK, coffee is wearing off... I hope some of this has been helpful to you.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 12, 2018 12:04:25 GMT -5
I hate to say this, but I don't like either background. Because glass is so translucent, I think white or black would be better. The glass has so much going on- no need to compete or distract. Also, I would save the penny picture for one of the pictures in the ad not the first gallery picture. Let the glass be center stage for the gallery stage, then they can click over and see the scale. I know you will do well. No doubt in my mind. eta- Will you be doing longer titles? Yep, verbiage is bouncing in brain as tinkering and looking at other Etsy sellers Tela. The title will be loaded with the best search terms too, so it will have all that keyword garbage in it too. But key descriptive info, it is too bland as is. Etsy recently changed their search engine seriously, it now searches perhaps descriptions and/or keyword list too. Not 2 months ago they only used the title for years. I learn all this Etsy search stuff from Marmalade's news bleeps.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 12, 2018 12:18:13 GMT -5
I am not dialed in to the software white balance manipulations on the iPad yet. I will get a Youtube lesson soon. Nonetheless, the following photos were taken on much whiter copy paper and the EXPOSURE was adjusted all over the place between them. The whiter the better as you guys are hinting IMO. Will try black too.
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Post by MrP on Apr 12, 2018 12:20:43 GMT -5
I don't want to be an a$$ James but when the H LL are you going to put the links to your sites on the bottom of your posts? Us people with poor minds can't remember how you are listed on other sites so please put the links to ALL your sites on your posts. Thanks?............................MrP Shoot Michael, this Etsy shop is very much in it's infancy. It takes me months to dial in an internet shop. In past couple of days I have been taking photos w/different cameras/conditions and loading the photos on to Etsy to see the effect. I have a long long way to go before having a presentable shop. I was pleased to find the category "glass cabs" in Etsy is clearly differentiated from China trash and true lamp work glass. There is about 2 listings per 24 on each page by true glass artists. Lots and lots of junk. A good thing. Just like fire pits, lots of fire pit signage and poker listings, and then the fire pit listings. What part of FOLLOWING you are you NOT getting. I am sure that if we put it up for vote you would loose. Most of us watching are doing it because it is exciting and we also want to learn from you. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it easy for us that are not great searchers..............................MrP
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Post by Pat on Apr 12, 2018 12:25:24 GMT -5
Agree with MrP Just now wanted to show husband your fire pits. No link!! Make it easy for viewers to find your stuff!! Thank you
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Post by aDave on Apr 12, 2018 12:30:31 GMT -5
I am not dialed in to the software white balance manipulations on the iPad yet. I will get a Youtube lesson soon. Nonetheless, the following photos were taken on much whiter copy paper and the EXPOSURE was adjusted all over the place between them. The whiter the better as you guys are hinting IMO. Will try black too. jamesp, while the exposure is better, and I know it's still early in the process, but if you use a white background, figure out a lighting solution where shadows are reduced/eliminated. In your photos above, the shadows make it very irritating to my vision...almost to the point where it seems I can't focus on the cab or I'm partially seeing double. It may be time for a good light box or tent. Just a friendly suggestion.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 12, 2018 12:33:37 GMT -5
These are good photos. Your first photo though should not include the ruler. The ruler photo should be the last picture. If it were me I would have the main photo be a nice straight on shot. Second photo at some sort of angle that explains what the edges look like. Third photo would be your straight on shot with the ruler. Nice background and clear photo. Chuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 12, 2018 12:39:50 GMT -5
Hold those thoughts aDave and Tommy. I want to digest all of this. I am called away at the moment. I will say the Etsy site was pretty much tacked together yesterday. It has a real long way to go. The 'hand made' card will be played heavily because what we are doing is very hand made. No choice in that. This MUST be conveyed literally and illustratively by use of photos and links. And all of the features on this property will be taken advantage of on the Etsy site. I have been so deep into making glass it has consumed me. That is leveling out. I have tried to be an open book and keep my activities open to the RTH as best as a have time to. I hope that the 'openeness' is helpful to others interested in pursuing similar. Jewelry is a daunting business due to mass competition. Fire pits a breeze, in no way as challenging. And selling something that is a one-off adds to complexity. Anyway, this looks like it may be a unique approach to jewelry due to cool glass sources and aardvark process methods. I think you guys would freak out if you were to see some of the things being done here. Some of it I fear to publicize because of it's efficiency. There are so many variations on the glass theme. I found a mentor this morning on Etsy.(they don't know me) Crazy about their glass, a target to aim for: www.etsy.com/listing/606923141/lampwork-glass-focal-bead-round-marble?ref=shop_home_active_2
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Post by drocknut on Apr 12, 2018 13:05:44 GMT -5
Not much I can add but wanted to say good luck and hope you do well. You are getting some good advice on here plus Marmalead is a good source for information and SEO. I have heard that Etsy is still working on their SEO search and they are now favoring shorter titles and listings with free shipping, this is from a group of Etsy "experts" who constantly monitor things and report what they find out to the group.
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Post by MrP on Apr 12, 2018 14:18:15 GMT -5
Jim jamesp , I'm with everyone else on the comments, so no sense repeating all of them. However, I definitely agree with MrP about putting links to your current (and future) websites in your sig. With as many "visitors" and members that we have visit each day, and as prolific as your posts are, that's a bunch of potential exposure for you with very little effort. I do have a couple of thoughts though, but I'm assuming you have already put them on your "to do" list. When you end up doing your glass website, be sure to include photos of your brick add-on/studio. While that may not be your actual work area for this stuff, the photos that you have used on your other sites will add to the "handmade" aspect of the glass, simply due to the rustic appearance of the building, IMHO. That building is beautiful, and I think you should continue to showcase it in some fashion to help you sell. In your "about me" on your Etsy fire pits site, be sure to update it and include that you custom make glass cabs and be sure to mention your Etsy site there as well. I know you mention your wife's site, so I see no reason why you shouldn't do that with the glass site. I'm sure she can also mention your stuff as well on her end. Additionally, since your fire pits site is so prominent in Etsy, I'm left wondering if you can take advantage of that. I'm trying to figure out if you would be able to perhaps take a couple of photos with some cabs either in or around some pits, just to generate curiosity about what they are or where to get them. Looking for a snowball effect, of sorts. And lastly, along those lines, perhaps consider sending a couple cabs (not necessarily the good stuff) off to folks when they buy a pit...kind of as a thank you and a description of what they are. Your wife could do the same. This may help in a small degree simply by word of mouth. Perhaps your buyers aren't into jewelry making, but they know someone who is. Again, the snowball effect. aDave Those are all great ideas!.......................MrP
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Apr 12, 2018 14:50:21 GMT -5
unclesoska MsAliAbsolute white makes great sense. With so many viviid colors Alison. Masking white balance adjustments - wow, never thought about that one. Been fussing about the various levels of cream.(many years fooling w/white balance) That might be what rockjunquie does with her fine photos. Over exposure becomes less of an issue too. white is white is white... Getting smart today. You guys are setting me off rocket in right direction ! Yes, abolutely rockjunquie has the white nailed! She truly sees the "color" in white, and is better than anyone on this forum for achieving pure white backgrounds. Just to elaborate a bit. Today's cameras do things to photos that were never an issue back in the film days. Your local 1 hour photo folk would adjust green people to a more human tint if you complained loud enough.Today camera setting have become a complex arrary of algorithms. Adjustments get made unbeknownst to us when there is a dominant color in the photo, or excessive light and dark, and also as many know, the color temp can affect color balance, ie. sunlight @ different times of day, lighting in the home vs. outdoors, etc. Also different light sources (incandescent, halogen, fluorescent, etc.) are deficient in parts of the visible light spectrum (fluorescents are deficient in red, so people look green when photoed under fluorescent indoors). Anyway, long story short, you should try to achieve pure bright white w/ no tint or shading in your photo backgrounds, and if accomplished, the photos of your rocks or glass will have the truest colors possible. Compare your photos to a piece of bright white printer paper, but be mindful too of the light you are viewing the piece of paper under. Now that I've confused everyone...
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Apr 12, 2018 15:06:03 GMT -5
Maybe on black for the beauty or cover shot, either black velvet, or there's a black flocked paper that works well and comes in larger rolls that both work excellent, as they reflect zero light, unlike say, a black poster board. Be mindful of dust on black, or maybe the dust and scratches filter in Photoshop can fix. Same rules apply as white- black is black, it is not charcoal grey.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2018 15:06:04 GMT -5
Thanks, unclesoska. jamesp, I have 2 cameras. A nikon dslr and a midrange canon. I set the white balance (and everything else) to auto for outside pics with the canon and use manual white balance with my nikon in the light tent. But, the real power is with Photoshop Elements. You can get it pretty cheap and actually install it on your puter- no cloud BS. It does a super fabulous job making white truly white and getting color right. I use the color cast removal function to easily remove any color cast in the white. Then I use the levels function to bump up the white without blowing anything out. Of course, getting the best picture straight from the camera is what you want to do, but little tweaks are so easy with elements. It is a HUGE time saver and I heartily recommend it. Also, I can set the background of the program to white. That way, I can compare the picture to the pure white background that it is on. It is very easy to see where the image has a cast or darkness. If you get elements, and I hope you consider it, I can help you with it. I got mine on Amazon. I had been using an old Photoshop, but this is 100 times better- though I do wish I could make my own crop templates/presets. The only drawback as far as I can tell.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2018 15:17:36 GMT -5
eta- I did not change the colors or lighten the cabs. All I did was remove the color cast which gives the correct color of the cabs and lighten the background. Notice how it just looks cleaner and sharper? Much more eye appeal than a dish water white. edit again- You can make a custom watermark with the paintbrush tool which I recommend you do- otherwise some jerk on ali ba ba will be using your pictures.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 12, 2018 15:28:34 GMT -5
I want to address aDave and Tommy as they had a lot to say. aDave I intend to take advantage of all the resources you mentioned. The fire pit clients get a hand full of tumbles as it is. Next will be this glass. As far as the hardscape and landscape on this property photos will be posted on the Etsy site. This farm has a fair amount of interest and lends itself to making some cool pics. I want to target people that buy cabs for resale Dave. If my quality makes that cut. The last thing I wanted to do was sell retail. OK for $500 sales, not so for $20 sales. Starting out in retail is fine, but if it does not shift to wholesale then it will get shut down unless there is a large volume of sales. It just has to go that way if it is going to work for my life style with an established business already set up. This glass site is going to have to be simple and not a large time eater. I won't be near as thorough as you Tommy Such as 10 photos and constantly changing descriptions. In fact the target is to spend as little time on the variable items like description updates and title updates with each sale. Two or three photos if possible. Intending on keeping it bare bones and very simple. Which goes against conventional Etsy success. I can offer a fine cab for resale for a small price because of rather productive methods. Hoping to acquire repeat customers that sell a lot. Motto "fine product at a fair price and able to sell itself" is the target. If things don't go wholesale or high volume retail I will walk away from internet sales. However these jewels will give me a ticket to attend our many festivals in Atlanta. They are a lot of fun. And I have time to attend them now. Small light weight product makes for easy set up(as opposed to fire pits). You guys know I appreciate the comments/suggestions/help. I was amazed at the hands down opinion of a plain white/black background. Suits me great. The point on tumbling came through loud and clear. Suits me great too. Taking photos of the scenery has been an attention getter w/the fire pits. Got that one. Making the handmade point clear is gonna happen because I work hard and this stuff is a ton of hand work.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 12, 2018 15:35:07 GMT -5
unclesoska MsAliAbsolute white makes great sense. With so many viviid colors Alison. Masking white balance adjustments - wow, never thought about that one. Been fussing about the various levels of cream.(many years fooling w/white balance) That might be what rockjunquie does with her fine photos. Over exposure becomes less of an issue too. white is white is white... Getting smart today. You guys are setting me off rocket in right direction ! Yes, abolutely rockjunquie has the white nailed! She truly sees the "color" in white, and is better than anyone on this forum for achieving pure white backgrounds. Just to elaborate a bit. Today's cameras do things to photos that were never an issue back in the film days. Your local 1 hour photo folk would adjust green people to a more human tint if you complained loud enough.Today camera setting have become a complex arrary of algorithms. Adjustments get made unbeknownst to us when there is a dominant color in the photo, or excessive light and dark, and also as many know, the color temp can affect color balance, ie. sunlight @ different times of day, lighting in the home vs. outdoors, etc. Also different light sources (incandescent, halogen, fluorescent, etc.) are deficient in parts of the visible light spectrum (fluorescents are deficient in red, so people look green when photoed under fluorescent indoors). Anyway, long story short, you should try to achieve pure bright white w/ no tint or shading in your photo backgrounds, and if accomplished, the photos of your rocks or glass will have the truest colors possible. Compare your photos to a piece of bright white printer paper, but be mindful too of the light you are viewing the piece of paper under. Now that I've confused everyone... Yep, Tela does have the photos dailed in. And her wares are perfect for strong light and close in shots. I see how she does it now. The Nikon Dslr about has to be used in manual for many shots Tela. Darn thing shots to the cold side.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,323
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Post by jamesp on Apr 13, 2018 6:05:46 GMT -5
rockjunquie Drummond Island Rocks MsAli Tommy hummingbirdstones aDave drocknut MrP PatMAYBE I THINK MY PRODUCT IS BETTER THAN IT REALLY IS It sure seems fine. I probably shouldn't be telling you guys this but this is my situation - Over-production. Asking you what to do with all this material being produced. We are all family and these tumble melts are not on the market. No one else is making this. This is a totally new glass product. The tumbling can reveal glass in so many unusual ways such as feathering and layer exposure like Fordite There could be hundreds of others making this same product and still plenty of buyers out there. I study a lot of glass jewels(most is fused) and this stuff holds it's own w/the best of them. Fuse process is quite limited. This tumble polish process allows polishing ANY and ALL melts. Fuse glass MUST be flame polished which is very limiting. Lamp work and blown glass are other categories of glass, both are way more labor intensive one-offs, as is fused glass. All are dependent upon flame polish. Working at a rate of 5 hours per day: Prep and load glass into furnace every other day. Wife helps here, she loves the melt part. Cleaning out tumblers and transferring glass to next tumbler Pre-grinding individual glass melts into cab shapes on a fast 60 grit wheel on the lapper(labor eater). The tumbler does the rest of the finishing. Some glass is pre-tumbled first to see needed grinding spots and then shaped and then tumbled again. Note: Tumblers are running brutally fast with aggressive abrasives. I found the limits of the glass for very fast tumbles. At 5 hours per day we are making about 90 finish polished pendants. Purchase of a Vibrasonic and another Lot-O would double the production. So with minimal equipment I can produce 100- 180 flat back pendants per day.(not the curved vase shards) They may not have perfect girdles for setting and wrapping but they are finely radiused and wet polished both sides. Flatter girdles for wrapping are easily done though with less coarse tumbling. The 2 for $25 is ridiculous. They could be sold for $5 each for a $500/day income ! $5 is way cheap for this quality glass IMO. So, how to market such ? 2 per listing is a headache. I want to sell in lots of 50 or 100. And this stuff is not garbage, most of it is hand blown glass from some of the finest artists in the world. I have tons of blown scrap, no end to production. Daily production out of polish with limited amount of vibratory tumblers: Every 2 days out of rotary tumblers running at 40% capacity:
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 13, 2018 6:34:10 GMT -5
If I were you, I would set up several ways to buy these and see what works best. Make the larger "wholesale" buy more enticing and economical. For instance, 1 for 7.50, 2 for 14, 5 for 30, and 10 for 40.-- or something like that. See what sells best. Experiment to see what ppl will buy. Larger lots- call wholesale. Make sure you advertise these as unique one offs, handmade, handblown artglass artisan shards, repurposed, "green", OOAK, flat back cabochons, etc. Be prepared for ppl to ask you to drill holes. How much will you drill a hole for? Not a week passes that I don't get a request for a hole. Maybe set up ads for color families, random assortment, line patterns, round patterns, etc. Give lots of ways to purchase and see what works. That's what I would do.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 13, 2018 7:09:42 GMT -5
Selling them in small lots is way more work but gives the impression of hand made one of a kind. An ETSY site with 50 listings with 100 cabs in each listing kind of screams mass production. How about soliciting brick and mortar stores that they might fit into. That way you have the chance to really sell them on your process in person. Could even come up with a nice descriptive brochure and mail that and 5 or 10 sample cabs out to a bunch of retailers that you think might be able to sell them.
What types of retail shops do you see these doing well in? If your making 100 a day that means you need 50 stores to sell 2 cabs each everyday just to keep them from piling up.
Chuck
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