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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 11:24:41 GMT -5
For you who sell on etsy, I assume you got the email about the upcoming fee increases and changes. If you haven't, here is a link. As some of you may know, I am not a big etsy fan and never have been, so I'll spare you my not so good opinion on the matter.... ok, no I won't. As for the transaction fee increase- I understand that, although, I think they could have rolled out incremental increases. The 5% fee on our shipping costs is what blows my mind. Really? And, the new services scam is just that, a scam. I have a crystal ball. By next year we will have to subscribe to a service plan in order to stay competitive. The highest tier WILL provide advantages. Mark my words. And, it will be between 35 and 50 a month. It has been well publicized in the press that, going forward, etsy sees seller services as the way to keep their new stockholders happy. This is just a drop in the bucket. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 12:29:33 GMT -5
That sounds about right. They are following eBay's model, acting as if small volume and OOAK sellers have huge profit margins (most of whom have no such thing, if they even make a profit at all) ready to be exploited by them. Yeah, I understand their desire to even out the fluctuation in their income from fees on sales from week to week and from month to month by pushing the monthly subscription model, but that's a losing proposition for all but the larger sellers, AND they layer it on top of their other fees.
One wonders when these sites are going to lose the small sellers, ending up being a site only for purchasing questionable, mass-produced junk from overseas and "refurbished" returns. At that point, I wonder whether the customer traffic will find somewhere else to shop?
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Post by Pat on Jun 18, 2018 12:44:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Tela. I had been considering returning to etsy. Now I probably won't. It was once the best place for small individual sellers. No more.
Where else is there? Thanks.
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 18, 2018 13:26:52 GMT -5
I am a bit confused as I have never bought or sold anything on etsy and have only bought on Ebay. I thought the shipping was between buyer and seller so it seems odd if they would put a 5% charge on that. So If the seller offers free shipping then etsy has nothing to charge, correct?
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Post by MsAli on Jun 18, 2018 13:31:48 GMT -5
Really no different from the EBAY model, lots of talk of big sellers pulling out and opening their own sites. Will be interesting to see what happens to ETSY
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 13:46:49 GMT -5
I am a bit confused as I have never bought or sold anything on etsy and have only bought on Ebay. I thought the shipping was between buyer and seller so it seems odd if they would put a 5% charge on that. So If the seller offers free shipping then etsy has nothing to charge, correct? Yes, shipping is the sole responsibility of the seller and etsy has nothing to do with it. Yet, they are still going to charge 5% of the shipping and handling. This is what is making people the most mad. If you ship large items and/or ship overseas- the costs can get very high. Does not apply to free shipping. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 13:49:07 GMT -5
Really no different from the EBAY model, lots of talk of big sellers pulling out and opening their own sites. Will be interesting to see what happens to ETSY Except that eBay never claimed to be for the small handmade shop. Etsy made their mark by creating a place for small individuals DIYers. Then they let mass produced in. Now they are punishing small shops with the shipping fee. |
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Post by Pat on Jun 18, 2018 13:53:12 GMT -5
Depending on the arithmetic, seller could add shipping fees to cost, and advertise free shipping.
However, that might significantly raise the 5% seller cut they will take.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 14:02:40 GMT -5
Depending on the arithmetic, seller could add shipping fees to cost, and advertise free shipping. However, that might significantly raise the 5% seller cut they will take. Yes. I offer free shipping in the US because I sell small items. But, international shipping can be very high. I will pay a fee on that. If I raise my shipping price to reflect the fee, then the fee simply goes up. I never break even. A lot of people are going to stop selling overseas. I'm lucky that my items are small. Some people have to ship heavy items. |
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Post by MsAli on Jun 18, 2018 14:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by MsAli on Jun 18, 2018 14:08:06 GMT -5
Really no different from the EBAY model, lots of talk of big sellers pulling out and opening their own sites. Will be interesting to see what happens to ETSY Except that eBay never claimed to be for the small handmade shop. Etsy made their mark by creating a place for small individuals DIYers. Then they let mass produced in. Now they are punishing small shops with the shipping fee. That is true and was a big draw to small sellers. I get it in a way why they are doing it Lots of competition. So if they do use the funds for marketing, it can be a win win situation. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 14:18:11 GMT -5
Except that eBay never claimed to be for the small handmade shop. Etsy made their mark by creating a place for small individuals DIYers. Then they let mass produced in. Now they are punishing small shops with the shipping fee. That is true and was a big draw to small sellers. I get it in a way why they are doing it Lots of competition. So if they do use the funds for marketing, it can be a win win situation. I understand raising the fees on transactions, but NOT the shipping. Since they went public and now answer to shareholders, it's a different place. Whether or not they actually help with marketing remains to be seen. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 14:32:34 GMT -5
Except that eBay never claimed to be for the small handmade shop. Etsy made their mark by creating a place for small individuals DIYers. Then they let mass produced in. Now they are punishing small shops with the shipping fee. Yes, ebay was originally an alternative to flea markets and garage sales. It featured simple and very low fees, yet managed to be profitable for both sellers and for ebay. Buyers found it without advertising, featuring massive amounts of cheap imported junk that one could find at Walmart at similar prices, hiring thousands of staff to shuffle paper and figure out how to fleece sellers, import clueless business school PhD's with exorbitant compensation packages to run things into the ground, etc. Then the new managers decided to shift away from the core competencies and audience to become "the next Amazon" (and they are still trying to do that after umpteen repeated failures). As you said, etsy aimed at being a sort of online "crafter's mall" for artisanal products and supplies. They seem to be following the path to irrelevancy blazed by Sears and ebay - depreciating the very things that got them on the map in the first place. Both still have decent visitor traffic, but they aren't the same type customers (as 5 years ago for etsy and 15 years ago for ebay). Frankly, Amazon has raided some of their business, and for the type of mass-produced wares they think it's such a good idea to concentrate on promoting, I invariably find prices are cheaper at Amazon and elsewhere. I'll add that I miss the old Postal Service (before Congress decided to spin it off as a gov't-owned corporation). The cheap "slow boat" methods for overseas packages have disappeared (as they have for Canadian, Australian and European post offices). Meanwhile, export-promoting Asian nations like China heavily subsidize international shipping, resulting in them being able to ship to us at lower rates than we have for sending an item across town. The big companies have their own transshipment services, but smaller sellers are heavily impacted by the lack of support from government and from online venues. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 14:45:59 GMT -5
Never knew Kate Winslet was into sewing (photo at top of article)! Perhaps etsy should change its description from being a "craft" marketplace to being more about "graft"  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 14:51:06 GMT -5
Except that eBay never claimed to be for the small handmade shop. Etsy made their mark by creating a place for small individuals DIYers. Then they let mass produced in. Now they are punishing small shops with the shipping fee. Yes, ebay was originally an alternative to flea markets and garage sales. It featured simple and very low fees, yet managed to be profitable for both sellers and for ebay. Buyers found it without advertising, featuring massive amounts of cheap imported junk that one could find at Walmart at similar prices, hiring thousands of staff to shuffle paper and figure out how to fleece sellers, import clueless business school PhD's with exorbitant compensation packages to run things into the ground, etc. Then the new managers decided to shift away from the core competencies and audience to become "the next Amazon" (and they are still trying to do that after umpteen repeated failures). As you said, etsy aimed at being a sort of online "crafter's mall" for artisanal products and supplies. They seem to be following the path to irrelevancy blazed by Sears and ebay - depreciating the very things that got them on the map in the first place. Both still have decent visitor traffic, but they aren't the same type customers (as 5 years ago for etsy and 15 years ago for ebay). Frankly, Amazon has raided some of their business, and for the type of mass-produced wares they think it's such a good idea to concentrate on promoting, I invariably find prices are cheaper at Amazon and elsewhere. I'll add that I miss the old Postal Service (before Congress decided to spin it off as a gov't-owned corporation). The cheap "slow boat" methods for overseas packages have disappeared (as they have for Canadian, Australian and European post offices). Meanwhile, export-promoting Asian nations like China heavily subsidize international shipping, resulting in them being able to ship to us at lower rates than we have for sending an item across town. The big companies have their own transshipment services, but smaller sellers are heavily impacted by the lack of support from government and from online venues. Surely can't argue with a single point. Funny you mentioned Sears. DH and I have been following their changes and demise for decades- usually preceded with a statement like, "Do you remember when...." Now, they are all but gone and headed into oblivion. They strayed too far from their roots. Sears owns the mall up the street. I have seen it change since 1977. At one point, the parking lot was almost always full- now they offer practically nothing and have divided their space into several other stores. I began shopping at eBay in probably 97 or so. Too many changes and not enough true auctions. I do shop there a lot, though, and not just for rocks. I used to sell there, too. But, most of my money goes to amazon now. |
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Don
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Post by Don on Jun 18, 2018 15:06:03 GMT -5
Etsy Changes
1. The transaction fee you pay when you make a sale is increasing from 3.5% to 5%
We’re planning to invest even more in making Etsy the best place to run your creative business. To help make this happen, we’re updating our transaction fee to 5%, and it will now also apply to the cost of shipping. This change goes into effect July 16, 2018.
Reasoning behind the transaction fee changes:
1. Helps to promote fairness and transparency in the marketplace by removing the incentive for a seller to "hide" part of their pricing by having a low item cost and a high shipping price
This is an ebay policy that was designed to punish sellers who packed extra margin into their shipping. Etsy shop owners by and large do not to this however. Which tells me that the higher ups at Etsy don't really know their marketplace. It's a disappointing move, but not surprising given the Ebay background of the new CEO.
2. With the new transaction fee, it's possible that more sellers will test out the free shipping model. Ultimately it's up to you to decide what's right for your business and customers.
It's pretty clear that Etsy wants all sellers to move to a free shipping model like Amazon. This fee on shipping is another incentive to encourage sellers to move in that direction without actually forcing their hand.
3. It's also standard industry practice to apply transaction fees to both item cost and shipping cost.
Translation: it's basically free money for Etsy, so why not do it? It's "industry standard" because Ebay made it a standard.
4. Increase spending from $78 million to $110 million spent on digital performance marketing that targets buyers and drives them back to Etsy shops and listings, like ads in Google search.
Hopefully this will translate into additional revenue Etsy sellers, but I'm not holding my breath.
Breakdown of Fees:
Transaction fee: 5% on sale and shipping price, pre-tax.
Payment processing fee: 3.5% plus $0.25
Listing/renewal fee: $0.20
Regarding their new pay-per-month packages, Etsy has promised that sellers on a monthly plan will not get search engine priority but I have my doubts that this is true. Their "Plus" plan doesn't really offer me any added value, having access for discounts on overpriced "personalized" packaging and business cards from Etsy partners is worthless for me, as is paying Etsy an inflated rate to have a domain point to my Etsy store. I can set this up myself for $10/year or less with any domain registrar. The listing and advertising credits are cute but not enough to justify the $20/mo plan cost. The Premium plan sounds like something geared specifically to the overseas mass-manufactures that Etsy loves so much. I predict a $100/mo fee or more for "Premium".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 15:08:31 GMT -5
Funny you mentioned Sears. DH and I have been following their changes and demise for decades- usually preceded with a statement like, "Do you remember when...." Now, they are all but gone and headed into oblivion. They strayed too far from their roots. Sears owns the mall up the street. I have seen it change since 1977. At one point, the parking lot was almost always full- now they offer practically nothing and have divided their space into several other stores. The parallels are striking. Sears could have moved their catalog business onto the Internet without changing much of anything or incurring additional costs. They could have been what Amazon became - they already had the infrastructure in place that Amazon had to build from scratch. Instead, they dumped their mailorder business, closed the regional distribution warehouses, and put everything into mall stores. Their management decided to stray from their core business in favor of trying to compete in new fields. Big mistake - if you've built your reputation on delicious blueberry pancakes, you don't go off and start focusing on selling well-drilling equipment. I thought etsy management's rationale that increasing fees will support more "customer service" and "advertising" as laughable. Customer service depends almost entirely on what sellers provide - etsy is no more likely than other venues to provide any real level of customer service to either buyers or sellers (hasn't happened on any other site to date). Advertising is a bottomless pit - it takes real (and expensive) talent to get any appreciable return from ads. Ebay and etsy didn't get where they are today via advertising - word of mouth worked just fine, and is the most effective advertising one can get. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 18, 2018 15:15:18 GMT -5
Funny you mentioned Sears. DH and I have been following their changes and demise for decades- usually preceded with a statement like, "Do you remember when...." Now, they are all but gone and headed into oblivion. They strayed too far from their roots. Sears owns the mall up the street. I have seen it change since 1977. At one point, the parking lot was almost always full- now they offer practically nothing and have divided their space into several other stores. The parallels are striking. Sears could have moved their catalog business onto the Internet without changing much of anything or incurring any additional infrastructure costs. Instead, they dumped their mailorder business, closed the regional distribution warehouses, and put everything into mall stores. Their management decided to stray from their core business in favor of trying to compete in new fields. Big mistake - if you've built your reputation on delicious blueberry pancakes, you don't go off and start focusing on selling well-drilling equipment. I thought etsy management's rationale that increasing fees will support more "customer service" and "advertising" as laughable. Customer service depends almost entirely on what sellers provide - etsy is no more likely than other venues to provide any real level of customer service to either buyers or sellers (hasn't happened on any other site to date). Advertising is a bottomless pit - it takes real (and expensive) talent to get any appreciable return from ads. Ebay and etsy didn't get where they are today via advertising - word of mouth worked just fine, and is the most effective advertising one can get. I have read every single one of the over 5000 posts and almost 250 pages of comments in the thread pertaining to the changes. Nearly everyone is livid abt the shipping fee. Yet, each time an etsy spokesperson comes in, all they say is that it's because some people padded their shipping to make more money on cheaper items. IF, BIG IF, that were true then SURELY they have the means of finding those people and putting a stop to it. How stupid do they think we are? Just admit that it's for the money. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 15:24:26 GMT -5
I have read every single one of the over 5000 posts and almost 250 pages of comments in the thread pertaining to the changes. Nearly everyone is livid abt the shipping fee. Yet, each time an etsy spokesperson comes in, all they say is that it's because some people padded their shipping to make more money on cheaper items. IF, BIG IF, that were true then SURELY they have the means of finding those people and putting a stop to it. How stupid do they think we are? Just admit that it's for the money. Yup, their software could easily have automatically identified and booted such sellers, or they could have tweaked their software to prevent that sort of abuse (the shippers' costs are all online these days) and limited what sellers are allowed to charge in addition. Total bottom-line profit move. |
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Don
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Post by Don on Jun 18, 2018 15:31:42 GMT -5
I have read every single one of the over 5000 posts and almost 250 pages of comments in the thread pertaining to the changes. Nearly everyone is livid abt the shipping fee. Yet, each time an etsy spokesperson comes in, all they say is that it's because some people padded their shipping to make more money on cheaper items. IF, BIG IF, that were true then SURELY they have the means of finding those people and putting a stop to it. How stupid do they think we are? Just admit that it's for the money. Yup, their software could easily have automatically identified and booted such sellers, or they could have tweaked their software to prevent that sort of abuse (the shippers' costs are all online these days) and limited what sellers are allowed to charge in addition. Total bottom-line profit move. Ety's software leaves a lot to be desired. I like how a buyer can enter in damn near anything in as their shipping address, weather or not it's an actual, valid shipping address, but when you go to print the shipping label, you have to spend sometimes hours googling a correctly formatted shipping address for the customer. It would not be difficult to validate the buyer's shipping address when they place the order, since they force the seller to validate the buyer's shipping address when printing the label, but noooo......ugh. |
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