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Post by grumpybill on Jul 18, 2018 14:29:36 GMT -5
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 18, 2018 14:42:37 GMT -5
grumpybill - I just heard that story on the news. But they are 100 miles down. Wanna borrow a shovel? 
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Post by grumpybill on Jul 18, 2018 18:20:51 GMT -5
rockpickerforever , I'm thinking I'll just keep welding a bunch of post hole augers together as I dill down. Hopefully one of those diamond bearing inverted cone things is under my backyard.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 18, 2018 19:12:50 GMT -5
rockpickerforever , I'm thinking I'll just keep welding a bunch of post hole augers together as I dill down. Hopefully one of those diamond bearing inverted cone things is under my backyard. Or you can just build a massive crossbow to spear this planet and pull it in: 
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 18, 2018 19:54:36 GMT -5
If you guys manage to get a bunch of those deep subterranean diamonds, first think how a massive amount of new stones would affect the diamond market. Values would drop down to practically zero. While diamonds aren't exactly rare even now, a huge new supply would destroy the entire market structure that supports the illusion of rarity that's been carefully created by DeBeers and the Russian cartel.
I think that advertising-created illusion will topple anyway in the near future because DeBeers now is selling man-made diamonds that can be made in unlimited quantity. Does anyone else remember when CZ sold for around $100/ct.?
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 18, 2018 20:29:55 GMT -5
If you guys manage to get a bunch of those deep subterranean diamonds, first think how a massive amount of new stones would affect the diamond market. Values would drop down to practically zero. While diamonds aren't exactly rare even now, a huge new supply would destroy the entire market structure that supports the illusion of rarity that's been carefully created by DeBeers and the Russian cartel. I think that advertising-created illusion will topple anyway in the near future because DeBeers now is selling man-made diamonds that can be made in unlimited quantity. Does anyone else remember when CZ sold for around $100/ct.? Several companies have been marketing man-made gem quality diamonds for years. Gemesis is one of the major players.
The big race though its to make diamonds large enough to produce diamond computer chips, which will increase speeds significantly. Right now they are maxed out on speed for silicon chips. But they have not made large enough diamonds though for pure diamond chips so they are using hybrids of CVD diamond coatings on a base of silicon, which has increased speeds some.
The other big factor affecting the diamond market is moissonite (silicon carbide). The moissonite manufacturers are trying to replace diamond with missonite as the stone of choice for engagement and wedding rings in particular. Moissonite is almost as hard and has more "fire" than diamond and can be offered at a lower price.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 18, 2018 21:45:16 GMT -5
If you guys manage to get a bunch of those deep subterranean diamonds, first think how a massive amount of new stones would affect the diamond market. Values would drop down to practically zero. While diamonds aren't exactly rare even now, a huge new supply would destroy the entire market structure that supports the illusion of rarity that's been carefully created by DeBeers and the Russian cartel. I think that advertising-created illusion will topple anyway in the near future because DeBeers now is selling man-made diamonds that can be made in unlimited quantity. Does anyone else remember when CZ sold for around $100/ct.? Several companies have been marketing man-made gem quality diamonds for years. Gemesis is one of the major players. The big race though its to make diamonds large enough to produce diamond computer chips, which will increase speeds significantly. Right now they are maxed out on speed for silicon chips. But they have not made large enough diamonds though for pure diamond chips so they are using hybrids of CVD diamond coatings on a base of silicon, which has increased speeds some. The other big factor affecting the diamond market is moissonite (silicon carbide). The moissonite manufacturers are trying to replace diamond with missonite as the stone of choice for engagement and wedding rings in particular. Moissonite is almost as hard and has more "fire" than diamond and can be offered at a lower price.
, I'm well up to speed on the man-made diamond industry. I've followed it closely since the 1990s. The big difference now is that DeBeers, whose name has been synonymous with diamonds since the early 1900s, has decided to market synthetics. More than that, the Gemological Institute of America has recently announced it will grade synthetic diamonds. They are the gem diamond industry giants and as they go, so goes the retail diamond trade. Moissanite is nothing but a man-made polymorph of silicon carbide that ranges from white to uglier shades of yellow and greenish brown. Unlike diamond it's doubly-refractive and very easy to ID by inspecting stones from the side. It's cut with the table facing down the optic axis which eliminates the doubling of facets in that particular direction. But Charles and Colvard, like DeBeers, has a masterful advertising program that distracts people from the first rule of precious gems: rarity. There are several other natural and man-made white gems that show more dispersion (fire) than either diamond or Moissanite. There will always be magpies who crave the bright and shiny stuff, natural or man-made. It'll be interesting to see how these marketing ploys play out over the long term. |
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 18, 2018 23:54:41 GMT -5
Several companies have been marketing man-made gem quality diamonds for years. Gemesis is one of the major players. The big race though its to make diamonds large enough to produce diamond computer chips, which will increase speeds significantly. Right now they are maxed out on speed for silicon chips. But they have not made large enough diamonds though for pure diamond chips so they are using hybrids of CVD diamond coatings on a base of silicon, which has increased speeds some. The other big factor affecting the diamond market is moissonite (silicon carbide). The moissonite manufacturers are trying to replace diamond with missonite as the stone of choice for engagement and wedding rings in particular. Moissonite is almost as hard and has more "fire" than diamond and can be offered at a lower price.
, I'm well up to speed on the man-made diamond industry. I've followed it closely since the 1990s. The big difference now is that DeBeers, whose name has been synonymous with diamonds since the early 1900s, has decided to market synthetics. More than that, the Gemological Institute of America has recently announced it will grade synthetic diamonds. Yes, I was talking to GIA down at the JCK show. I saw their display of natural vs. synthetic where they were showing some of the differences.
Actually synthetic diamond synthesis goes back well before the 1990s. GE started synthesizing diamonds back in 1955 and there are some unconfirmed reports of other cases of synthesis going back to the 1800s. GE initially could not get past 1 carat in size and they doped their diamonds with boron to make them in to semiconductors. The high temp high pressure process though was very expensive and the diamonds produced were more costly that the real thing. It was not until they changed the ratio of the carbon isotopes that they were able to stabilize the crystals to grow diamonds beyond 1 carat.
So I am also familiar with the topic as I started doing heavy research on diamonds and diamond synthesis in the early 1980s as part of some project designs I put together for diamond synthesis. One high pressure and one low pressure. I did run as experiment for low pressure 27 years ago but improvised a little too much and it ended up all over the ceiling, walls and me. I had a very unhappy roommate. I have gathered additional research since then though further verifying my theory on diamond formation and am currently working on obtaining funding to produce large diamonds for computer chips. Actually should not be difficult at all with the proper equipment.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 19, 2018 0:39:24 GMT -5
Not to minimize your diamond research, but I know well the story of GE's synthetic diamond production. It started because DeBeers refused to sell the U.S. (or Russia) industrial diamonds during WWII, claiming war neutrality. Diamonds were needed for industrial tooling for our war effort so the GE experiment was a mini-Manhattan project and it succeeded. The reference in my earlier post was the manufacture of gem-size-and-color diamonds and their marketing. Yes, it started much earlier than the 90s but had no major commercial effect before that. Most diamonds were made for the electronics industry.
It's interesting that Russia took a different path in meeting their wartime industrial diamond needs. They went prospecting in Siberia, and discovered several major diatreme pipes that have had a truly major impact on the world diamond trade due to their high quality an abundance. In fact Russian diamonds have been the major factor in DeBeers' decreasing and now nonexistent rough diamond monopoly, though Canada has played a big role too. There's an interesting book about Russian diamond prospecting one of my former newspaper colleagues brought back to me in the mid-1960s from his tour of the USSR. It's still in print and you might enjoy reading it. It's V. Osipov's "Siberian Diamonds."
As for your diamond manufacturing experiments I LOL'd. Whoops! It's interesting that there are now several companies, one in Provo, UT, that use high-pressure, high-temperature (HPHT) machines to actually improve the color of natural diamonds depending on their chemistry. I recall seeing red diamonds being promoted at the Tucson gem shows back in the late 80s as I remember. They had obviously been colored by a Russian HPHT process. Anyhow it's an interesting topic and fun to follow though I much prefer colored gems to diamonds any day of the week.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 19, 2018 1:52:49 GMT -5
Not to minimize your diamond research, but I know well the story of GE's synthetic diamond production. It started because DeBeers refused to sell the U.S. (or Russia) industrial diamonds during WWII, claiming war neutrality. Diamonds were needed for industrial tooling for our war effort so the GE experiment was a mini-Manhattan project and it succeeded. The reference in my earlier post was the manufacture of gem-size-and-color diamonds and their marketing. Yes, it started much earlier than the 90s but had no major commercial effect before that. Most diamonds were made for the electronics industry. It's interesting that Russia took a different path in meeting their wartime industrial diamond needs. They went prospecting in Siberia, and discovered several major diatreme pipes that have had a truly major impact on the world diamond trade due to their high quality an abundance. In fact Russian diamonds have been the major factor in DeBeers' decreasing and now nonexistent rough diamond monopoly, though Canada has played a big role too. There's an interesting book about Russian diamond prospecting one of my former newspaper colleagues brought back to me in the mid-1960s from his tour of the USSR. It's still in print and you might enjoy reading it. It's V. Osipov's "Siberian Diamonds." As for your diamond manufacturing experiments I LOL'd. Whoops! It's interesting that there are now several companies, one in Provo, UT, that use high-pressure, high-temperature (HPHT) machines to actually improve the color of natural diamonds depending on their chemistry. I recall seeing red diamonds being promoted at the Tucson gem shows back in the late 80s as I remember. They had obviously been colored by a Russian HPHT process. Anyhow it's an interesting topic and fun to follow though I much prefer colored gems to diamonds any day of the week. GE's process would have been useless for the production of industrial diamonds for tools for the most part considering the time and cost involved to form very tiny diamonds in very small quantities.
The company in Utah you are referring to is MegaDiamond. Nothing on their site about this.
HPHT changing of diamond color I have only seen being done in Australia where they change the color and clarity of the once "garbage" brown diamonds, which they now market as "champagne", "chocolate" and "rootbeer" diamonds.
The company I mentioned before, Gemesis is manufacturing gem quality stones using HPHT based on technology they bought from the Russians back in the mid 90s.
The projects I am working on are mainly for production of large gem quality diamonds. Again the ultimate goal of using them for computer chips.
Also of interest is that there have been man-made diamonds produced that are actually harder than naturally occurring diamonds. Some by using buckey balls as a stater carbon source and others by increasing pressure on the synthetics to push the atoms closer together.
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timloco
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2012
Posts: 545
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Post by timloco on Jul 19, 2018 12:49:29 GMT -5
Graphene is where's at for computer chips it looks like lately anyways - you can make it cheaper than diamonds I'll bet. Kinda curious how you'd make diamond into a computer chip - is is for photonic interconnects on silicon or the whole chip substrate?
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 19, 2018 14:12:59 GMT -5
James: "GE's process would have been useless for the production of industrial diamonds for tools for the most part considering the time and cost involved to form very tiny diamonds in very small quantities." That's correct. Our wartime needs were met by natural industrial diamond imported mainly from Brazil and other South American mines not controlled by DeBeers. The GE project was begun out of the recognition that U.S. diamond needs could not depend on DeBeers. The first GE synthetic diamonds were not produced until the early 1950s, after the war was over.
"The company in Utah you are referring to is MegaDiamond. Nothing on their site about this." No, the company I had in mind is NovaDiamond, now Novatek. It seems to have diversified considerably since I last looked into it and I'm not sure how much effort it now devotes to diamonds per se. Here's a pdf about it's work on diamond color: www.nicediamond.com/storage/File/Enhancement/HPHT%20Process.pdf"The company I mentioned before, Gemesis is manufacturing gem quality stones using HPHT based on technology they bought from the Russians back in the mid 90s." Yes, I've followed their work from the beginning. The company is now known as Pure Grown Diamonds. They use both CVD (chemical vapor deposition) synthesis and HPHT. In the past they offered only yellow diamonds but have recently been able to grow large white stones in the 3 ct. range. From what I can gather they use both CVD and HPHT to grow white stones, using HPHT to remove the nitrogen which creates the yellow color.
I'm done with this topic now. We each know what we know. No point in debating it further. |
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Post by mohs on Jul 19, 2018 14:56:39 GMT -5
 woke from a diamond dream this is what I saw |
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 19, 2018 20:46:43 GMT -5
James: "GE's process would have been useless for the production of industrial diamonds for tools for the most part considering the time and cost involved to form very tiny diamonds in very small quantities." That's correct. Our wartime needs were met by natural industrial diamond imported mainly from Brazil and other South American mines not controlled by DeBeers. The GE project was begun out of the recognition that U.S. diamond needs could not depend on DeBeers. The first GE synthetic diamonds were not produced until the early 1950s, after the war was over.
"The company in Utah you are referring to is MegaDiamond. Nothing on their site about this." No, the company I had in mind is NovaDiamond, now Novatek. It seems to have diversified considerably since I last looked into it and I'm not sure how much effort it now devotes to diamonds per se. Here's a pdf about it's work on diamond color: www.nicediamond.com/storage/File/Enhancement/HPHT%20Process.pdf"The company I mentioned before, Gemesis is manufacturing gem quality stones using HPHT based on technology they bought from the Russians back in the mid 90s." Yes, I've followed their work from the beginning. The company is now known as Pure Grown Diamonds. They use both CVD (chemical vapor deposition) synthesis and HPHT. In the past they offered only yellow diamonds but have recently been able to grow large white stones in the 3 ct. range. From what I can gather they use both CVD and HPHT to grow white stones, using HPHT to remove the nitrogen which creates the yellow color.
I'm done with this topic now. We each know what we know. No point in debating it further. Actually nitrogen does not always create yellow. It can be thought of like a stoplight where very high levels can lead to red, intermediate levels yellow and low levels green.
But not all diamond coloring is from impurities. Diamonds can also be changed in color due to vacancies in the crystal lattice. For instance from radiation exposure leading to green diamonds.
The main player in CVD I have heard of is Apollo I mentioned earlier.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 19, 2018 20:49:25 GMT -5
The diagram you posted refers to the original method of CVD diamond production. The coil is tungsten and the gas primarily methane sometimes with some carbon dioxide added. Similar to what I was working with 27 years ago.
Then they went to eliminating the coil and using a microwave beam to knock the carbon out the methane to form of the CVD diamond coatings.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 19, 2018 20:51:50 GMT -5
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Nov 14, 2024 18:17:57 GMT -5
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