dbcooper
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2018
Posts: 6
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Post by dbcooper on Aug 8, 2018 8:37:40 GMT -5
Hi Everyone,
I am very new to this site an am having difficulty navigating it and replying to people. I am also an amateur at tumbling. Although ive tumbled for about a year now, ignorantly, and not understanding the processes.
I have a blower fan for a bouncy house ive deconstructed. It has a 0.6 horsepower motor that revolves around 3500 RPMs. I have managed to break it down into an upright tumbler and also have the PVC and steel sleeves necessary to hold the rocks in place, but havent yet created it. From reading, it seems that the RPM's of this motor are astronomically higher than what is required, 50-120 RPMs. Could this tumbler serve any purpose? such as breaking down larger rocks that dont fit in my small 2lb tumbler? I did a trial run this weekend using a paint can as the crucible and it did fairly well. You would think at those RPMs that the rocks would be pinned to the side of the barrel, but that wasnt the case.
Please let me know your thoughts on this. If this cannot be used as a tumbler, what can i do with it related to rocks in general?
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Aug 8, 2018 8:54:05 GMT -5
Motor RPM can be reduced of course. Smaller pulley on motor shaft to larger pulley on drive shaft.
The RPM of the barrel is what matters. Never did a home build but can tell you about Lortones. The small smooth 3# barrels about 50 rpm and larger 6 & 12# barrels about 30 rpm.
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dbcooper
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2018
Posts: 6
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Post by dbcooper on Aug 8, 2018 10:48:17 GMT -5
tkvancil Ken, the way i have it set up is direct, so there are no pulleys at all. it would hook directly to the barrel. is 3500 rpm definitely a problem? can it be used to break apart larger rocks? i am not sure how i would rig a pulley system for it but i think an automatic clutch like from harbor frieght would work.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 8, 2018 11:17:54 GMT -5
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dbcooper
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2018
Posts: 6
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Post by dbcooper on Aug 8, 2018 11:27:56 GMT -5
TheRock Duke/Bob i gather that but can i use this as a rock tumbler or something related to it?
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Post by TheRock on Aug 8, 2018 13:10:43 GMT -5
TheRock Duke/Bob i gather that but can i use this as a rock tumbler or something related to it? Well 3500 RPMS is too damn fast for anything and Would be Unsafe in my Honest Opinion. I am an HVAC Contractor of 36 years I have worked on shafts Fans pulleys from large Vortex Fans Squirrel Cage type and everything in between that take 50 hp motors on down in size. And 3500 RPM is cooking. You need some kind of reduction Motors come in 1725 and 3450 rpm 1stly you need to find a 1725 rpm motor then pulley it down and gear reduce the speed in someway. I Paid $660.00 for my 45T and could have built it a whole lot cheaper but I wanted to get rolling Impatience Cost me. Lets see some pictures of what you have and see if we can come up with a solution for you.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 8, 2018 13:16:22 GMT -5
Just sitting here thinking 3500 RPM would cause such a centrifugal force I don't know how in Sam's Hill you would keep the rocks and Barrel from flying apart. Not only that there would be no rolling the centrifugal force would keep the Rocks in place the only Breaking would be when they Crack Yer Noggin and the Ambulance comes! DON'T DO IT! ITS NOT SAFE!
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dbcooper
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2018
Posts: 6
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Post by dbcooper on Aug 8, 2018 13:31:17 GMT -5
TheRock i actually did manage to make it safe to be around. the setup of it already was perfect for that as one side of it is a large shield. im with you though its way overkill. Thanks for letting me know what you thought. I dont know hardly anything about pulleys though.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 8, 2018 13:37:30 GMT -5
TheRock i actually did manage to make it safe to be around. the setup of it already was perfect for that as one side of it is a large shield. im with you though its way overkill. Thanks for letting me know what you thought. I dont know hardly anything about pulleys though. Well the offer still stands would like to see some pictures of it (Stills) And maybe a Youtube Vid of it in operation Maybe would be able to assist with better Ideas at present I'm just shooting in the dark!
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J Mee
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2018
Posts: 21
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Post by J Mee on Aug 8, 2018 13:54:22 GMT -5
I agree that 3500 rpm is way too fast. If you are dead set on using what you’ve already built you may want to look into means of electronicly reducing the motor speed. Depending on the type of motor a variac (variable transformer) or speed controler like is used on a foredom (which is based on a variable resistor) may work. You’d be looking for a pretty big (1/100) reduction so you may need to custom build a circuit to do it. Often when reducing motor speed that much you loose a lot of torque so it may not be possible. There are high torque gear drive motors that may be a nice drop in solution as well. Pics of your setup would help.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,432
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Post by Wooferhound on Aug 8, 2018 14:21:43 GMT -5
Look in the hardware store in the ceiling fans, get a Motor Speed Control
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Aug 9, 2018 9:10:57 GMT -5
tkvancil Ken, the way i have it set up is direct, so there are no pulleys at all. it would hook directly to the barrel. is 3500 rpm definitely a problem? can it be used to break apart larger rocks? i am not sure how i would rig a pulley system for it but i think an automatic clutch like from harbor frieght would work. 3500 is too fast. I agree with what TheRock (Duke) has said.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 9, 2018 12:57:23 GMT -5
You are going to have a hell of a time trying to use a speed control on an induction motor. (google it) And if you try a normal speed control you will burn the motor up. you can buy a 1/3 hp 1725 motor and adjustable shieve pulley for under $50.00 from a HVAC guy I used to have a shelf full of em. there has been plenty of guys on here that have built tumblers Chuck Drummond Island Rocks and Rob Jugglerguy have threads on this you would be better off following their lead and do what they did.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 9, 2018 13:05:07 GMT -5
I agree that 3500 rpm is way too fast. If you are dead set on using what you’ve already built you may want to look into means of electronicly reducing the motor speed. Depending on the type of motor a variac (variable transformer) or speed controler like is used on a foredom (which is based on a variable resistor) may work. You’d be looking for a pretty big (1/100) reduction so you may need to custom build a circuit to do it. Often when reducing motor speed that much you loose a lot of torque so it may not be possible. There are high torque gear drive motors that may be a nice drop in solution as well. Pics of your setup would help. A foredom is a shaded pole motor just like a ceiling fan. (BRUSHES) Totally different than a Induction motor. In industrial use, frequency drives are used for motors but 5000.00 + is entry level and I don't have the time to get into those.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 9, 2018 14:03:38 GMT -5
You are going to have a hell of a time trying to use a speed control on an induction motor. (google it) And if you try a normal speed control you will burn the motor up. you can buy a 1/3 hp 1725 motor and adjustable shieve pulley for under $50.00 from a HVAC guy I used to have a shelf full of em. there has been plenty of guys on here that have built tumblers Chuck Drummond Island Rocks and Rob Jugglerguy have threads on this you would be better off following their lead and do what they did. I have not built a tumbler, but Chuck has. I use a Lortone 33b, a Lortone QT66, a Thumler’s AR2 (hate it), and a Lot-O. I am planning to build something to replace the three rotaries though.
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Post by pauls on Aug 9, 2018 16:09:19 GMT -5
To get a motor running at that speed down to around 50 RPM you are going to need a tiny pulley driving a huge diameter pulley, or an idler shaft with a small motor pulley driving a large pulley on the idler and another small pulley on the idler driving another large pulley on the tumbler shaft. Too complex, and very expensive if you have to buy those pulleys, large pulleys cost an arm and a leg. A brand new (Chinese) motor at a reasonable speed (1400RPM I think) will cost less than a heap of pulleys, you will still need to buy one 10 or 12 inch pulley to drive your shaft, or scrounge one from an old washing machine. They are common under fairly ancient washing machines.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
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Post by NRG on Aug 9, 2018 16:18:37 GMT -5
6/10 HP is way too much power. 1/6hp will roll 100#+ of barrels.
Everyone was so focused on gear reduction this got ignored.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
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Post by NRG on Aug 10, 2018 0:15:50 GMT -5
the way i have it set up is direct, so there are no pulleys at all. it would hook directly to the barrel. is 3500 rpm definitely a problem? can it be used to break apart larger rocks? i am not sure how i would rig a pulley system for it but i think an automatic clutch like from harbor frieght would work. Now that I see this? You are trolling.
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Post by TheRock on Aug 10, 2018 22:48:10 GMT -5
6/10 HP is way too much power. 1/6hp will roll 100#+ of barrels. Everyone was so focused on gear reduction this got ignored. You are reading his post wrong he said 0.6 hp which is 1/10 over a 1/2 hp Yes I agree a bit much. My 40T has a 1/3 hp motor and runs warm being under load 24/7 Remember we are dealing with a SPINDLY Lorotone tumbler here.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
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Post by NRG on Aug 10, 2018 23:00:09 GMT -5
6/10 HP is way too much power. 1/6hp will roll 100#+ of barrels. Everyone was so focused on gear reduction this got ignored. You are reading his post wrong he said 0.6 hp which is 1/10 over a 1/2 hp Yes I agree a bit much. My 40T has a 1/3 hp motor and runs warm being under load 24/7 Remember we are dealing with a SPINDLY Lorotone tumbler here. Lol With tremendous respect and admiration: Maths say 0.6 HP is exactly the same as 6/10 HP I changed the decimal to a fraction because that is how motors are designated. It is a huge overkill. On my purple pebble water, I can spin 100# of barrels with a 1/6 HP and THAT is overkill.
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