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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 24, 2018 6:28:01 GMT -5
I have been in contact with a fellow wire wrapper for a long time. I was checking out his shop and looked to see why his review stars were down. I found this 1 star review for him:
The back story: John was contacted by this woman (a supposed Dr) who wanted to buy just the stone. He said he makes jewelry and that he prefers that it remain wrapped. She bought it to take out the stone. He told her again that he was a jeweler and that he would like to see it remain as it is. She went nuts and posted the personal attack. He is a great guy and never once made me think he was creepy. I asked him if he reported this ugly attack to etsy and he did. THEY ARE FINE WITH IT! Can you imagine? That was nothing more than slander and defamation. It says more about etsy leaving it up than it does about him, IMHO.
John is a lawyer. He has always been honest with me. I believe his version of events, which are not the same. Here is his response:
We chatted about this and he revealed that his anger and humiliation were so great that he took an anger management class. For real.
Some people are just toxic. And, Etsy has their collective heads up their asses if they think this is OK.
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Post by fernwood on Aug 24, 2018 6:41:10 GMT -5
I have had many suggest I open an Etsy Shop. The above is one of the reasons I never will.
Your friend as not out of line, the customer was for leaving the review.
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 24, 2018 6:50:16 GMT -5
I have had many suggest I open an Etsy Shop. The above is one of the reasons I never will. Your friend as not out of line, the customer was for leaving the review. The thing with etsy is it is still the best place to sell handmade. But, the business itself has a lot to be desired. |
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Don
Cave Dweller 
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Aug 24, 2018 10:04:31 GMT -5
you can't tell people what they can and cannot do to the stuff they purchase from you. The note was completely unnecessary and a bad move IMO. I don't blame the customer for feeling creeped out. I understand being attached to your own work, but if you're going to be in the selling game, you have to let go. Pricing your work at a price high enough that makes you comfortable with the idea being parted from your work helps. If someone buys a bangle from you and wants to wear it on their junk for example, that's none of your business once the item is sold. You don't include a note that says "I would prefer it if you did not wear this on your junk, thanks". Take the money, make the next piece, rinse and repeat.
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Post by roy on Aug 24, 2018 10:09:41 GMT -5
you can't tell people what they can and cannot do to the stuff they purchase from you. The note was completely unnecessary and a bad move IMO. I don't blame the customer for feeling creeped out. I understand being attached to your own work, but if you're going to be in the selling game, you have to let go. Pricing your work at a price high enough that makes you comfortable with the idea being parted from your work helps. If someone buys a bangle from you and wants to wear it on their junk for example, that's none of your business once the item is sold. You don't include a note that says "I would prefer it if you did not wear this on your junk, thanks". Take the money, make the next piece, rinse and repeat. I AGREE |
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Post by MsAli on Aug 24, 2018 10:23:05 GMT -5
you can't tell people what they can and cannot do to the stuff they purchase from you. The note was completely unnecessary and a bad move IMO. I don't blame the customer for feeling creeped out. I understand being attached to your own work, but if you're going to be in the selling game, you have to let go. Pricing your work at a price high enough that makes you comfortable with the idea being parted from your work helps. If someone buys a bangle from you and wants to wear it on their junk for example, that's none of your business once the item is sold. You don't include a note that says "I would prefer it if you did not wear this on your junk, thanks". Take the money, make the next piece, rinse and repeat. I agree Personally I would of removed all the wire and gave her what she wanted He didn't need to add extra commentary and to be quite honest if he felt that strongly about it, he didn't need to sell it to her at all. however, shame on ETSY for not removing her review, those types of comments should not be allowed the whole thing is extremely childish on both sides I think buyers IMO are going to see this for what it is, and if his work is good enough it will speak for itself The part that concerned me more is he needed to take anger management classes because of this? That to me speaks of a HUGE red flag on his end as well |
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 24, 2018 10:38:05 GMT -5
As a young man, my father's advice to me was to stay out of retail sales.
I am a strong believer in the customer is always right. This will get repeat business and a higher rating
When reviewing feedback for a merchant or a product, I look at a sample of reviews rather than overall score. When faced with a tremendous number of choices, like Yelp, I go for the rating because I can't look at everybody.
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 24, 2018 10:39:18 GMT -5
... Some people are just toxic. And, Etsy has their collective heads up their asses if they think this is OK. A lot to unpack here. I think that recognizing the difference between "being OK" and seeing that it did not rise to the level where etsy intervention was needed are different things. They did the latter, and you are tarring them for the former. This kind of logical fallacy is a large symptom of public discourse ills today. Having a review process is not perfect, but valuable. Having standards for review content is good, but needs to be least restrictive possible to keep process honest. Maybe there could be a system where sellers get to occasionally exclude a review from tallies, but details would need to be worked out. How to have review and/or comments and how to hold people accountable for speech is an issue our society is grappling with. Not really fair to rag on etsy by attributing (i.e., being OK) their position on a dispute. The woman behaved badly by using ad hominem attack of banjos and woods, suggesting inbred ignorance. It may also be that the low rating was mostly retaliation for not selling the stone alone at a cheaper price. But John got into classist attack territory by making hay over whether someone was or was not a "Dr" and what it might or might not mean if it is included in a signature. I see dog whistles on all sides of this. just saying |
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Aug 24, 2018 10:53:18 GMT -5
I will add though, the customer's review is in extremely bad taste and says more about her than it does about the seller. There's nothing funny about rape, which is what "woods and banjos" is alluding to.
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,982
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Post by Tommy on Aug 24, 2018 11:03:31 GMT -5
Yeah... dag nabbit. I saw this a couple of weeks ago. I only have a minute to post here and there is much more to think about but I will say that I know of and like John, and although he might have chosen his words more carefully (to here privately and in response) I don't think he deserved such a disparaging revew  Usually I think sellers should just stay quiet and move on but I'm glad he responded as he did in this situation in response to her public comments. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,982
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Post by Tommy on Aug 24, 2018 11:07:47 GMT -5
you can't tell people what they can and cannot do to the stuff they purchase from you. The note was completely unnecessary and a bad move IMO. I don't blame the customer for feeling creeped out. I understand being attached to your own work, but if you're going to be in the selling game, you have to let go. Pricing your work at a price high enough that makes you comfortable with the idea being parted from your work helps. If someone buys a bangle from you and wants to wear it on their junk for example, that's none of your business once the item is sold. You don't include a note that says "I would prefer it if you did not wear this on your junk, thanks". Take the money, make the next piece, rinse and repeat. I also totally agree with this. The whole thing doesn't happen if he quietly ships her the pendand and lets her hang it from her nose if she chooses to do so. I would never dream of telling a customer what they can and cannot do with my product. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 24, 2018 11:12:21 GMT -5
My biggest problem with this is that etsy says it's ok. You would NEVER be allowed to post something like that in their forum. It's bad for everyone to leave it up. It's a disgusting, disparaging remark. And, I agree it does say more about the buyer than it does about the seller.
eta- He did not tell her what to do with the piece. He shipped it to her for her to do as she pleases.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Aug 24, 2018 11:18:13 GMT -5
My biggest problem with this is that etsy says it's ok. You would NEVER be allowed to post something like that in their forum. It's bad for everyone to leave it up. It's a disgusting, disparaging remark. And, I agree it does say more about the buyer than it does about the seller. eta- He did not tell her what to do with the piece. He shipped it to her for her to do as she pleases. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 24, 2018 11:19:21 GMT -5
My biggest problem with this is that etsy says it's ok. You would NEVER be allowed to post something like that in their forum. It's bad for everyone to leave it up. It's a disgusting, disparaging remark. And, I agree it does say more about the buyer than it does about the seller. eta- He did not tell her what to do with the piece. He shipped it to her for her to do as she pleases. Your point? He did not tell her what to do. He restated his opinion. |
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Aug 24, 2018 11:24:05 GMT -5
Your point? He did not tell her what to do. He restated his opinion. It was inappropriate and resulted in a bad review. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 24, 2018 11:26:40 GMT -5
Your point? He did not tell her what to do. He restated his opinion. It was inappropriate and resulted in a bad review. I'm not against her giving a bad review. I am against her being allowed to make a personal attack. |
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Aug 24, 2018 12:18:18 GMT -5
It was inappropriate and resulted in a bad review. I'm not against her giving a bad review. I am against her being allowed to make a personal attack. You can't control what someone will say in a review, and if Etsy doesn't feel like it warrants removal, then the best practice is to do what you can to make sure the customer has a positive experience, within reason. A few thoughts: 1. The seller knew in advance that the customer wanted to remove the stone from the setting for another project. The seller could have declined the sale, but decided not to do so. 2. Having accepted the sale, the only further communication with the customer should have been "Thank you for your order". Including a note that basically said "I'm salty about this and I hope you don't do what you said you were going to do but am sending it anyway because I want the sale, so a deal is a deal.  " Was asking for a negative response from the customer. 3. Customer review was negative and ugly. Was probably completely avoidable. Seller should learn from the experience and move on. Lord knows that I've had plenty of "learning" to do on Etsy myself. |
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Aug 24, 2018 12:59:00 GMT -5
We see the review that the customer wrote, paraphrasing the seller's note, but we don't get to see the full text of that note.
Her reference to her "dress" is the crux of the problem.
However he said it, that was what ticked off the customer.
I'm sure this has helped him learn to project a more professional image of his business.
Lynn
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doublet83
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 118 
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Post by doublet83 on Aug 24, 2018 19:54:37 GMT -5
I have started selling on Etsy, Ebay, and Amazon over the past year. I've actually found Etsy customers to be the nicest among the three, possibly because they feel a more personal connection to the seller. The return rates on Etsy seem to be the lowest, and returns are what really hurt you, more than harsh words at least.
One out of 100+ customers always comes a crazy one, and as a seller its part of your job as a professional to deal with these crazies without driving yourself nuts too. I admit, it didn't feel good when it first happens to you, as adults we need to learn how to rise above this nonsense and not let crazy customers get us down.
I also learned that Etsy doesn't really remove reviews unless it falls into some specific categories, like the customer blaming you for something out of your control, like shipping was delayed due to USPS' fault. I had my headaches too trying to get a review removed on Ebay for something I felt was completely not my fault. I guess you can fault Etsy or Ebay here for not being "reasonable", but you can also see it from their point of view: They simply don't want to devote a lot of time and effort to do investigative work over who was right or wrong for every bad review. There's no way to train your employees either over what is a "fair" negative review or a "unfair" negative review. Even some posters in this form seem to disagree somewhat in this instance. So Etsy keeps it simply and rarely removes reviews. Its not a policy I enjoy, as a seller, but I understand it.
Furthermore, if Etsy where to remove most of the negative reviews out there (frankly most negative reviews seem unreasonable), the consumer would suffer for it, because everyone would have 5 stars for and consumers would no longer trust the reviews (many don't already).
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" Was asking for a negative response from the customer.
