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Post by fernwood on Nov 12, 2018 7:37:49 GMT -5
Loaded question. Everyone has their own methods and desired outcomes.
Posting a few things to think about and comment on.
1. If you have a beautiful crystal point that you want a shine on, what do you do? Throw it in the rotary or vibe? Hand polish? Spray coat with something?
2. Petrified wood with bark. What to do? Run until all the bark is removed or do a partial run to leave some of the bark? Leaving the bark would leave some grooves.
3. A piece with deeper pits. Grind away all of the pits, reducing the size (and/or beauty) considerably? Or, be very careful to remove all the grit from stages and leave some pits.
4. Polish for softer, more challenging rocks. When to say it is good enough, cabs or tumbles?
For me there are some items that can never be perfectly smooth with the high gloss. It would destroy them to even try.
I let each rock guide me in what are the best methods to refine it. Sometimes only a little, sometimes a lot.
How you determine enough is enough?
Thanks
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Post by fernwood on Nov 12, 2018 8:33:23 GMT -5
I also ask myself the same questions when cabbing. How much is too much? How much shine is needed? Do I sacrifice part of the character to get that perfection?
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 12, 2018 8:34:37 GMT -5
1) What kind of crystal? I assume that it must be damaged. In my case it's Quartz crystals and I have collected a large number over the years so I am picky about which ones I keep as is and which ones I throw in the tumble bucket. For me it also depends on the size the crystal. If it's a large crystal, say over 3 or 4 inches I tend to accept slight dings.
2) Bark on Petrified wood, it depends on the attractiveness of the piece. If it's large I may cut off an end and flat polish the cut end, preserving most of the bark. On very small pieces, less than an inch or two it's usually into the tumble bucket. Here again I have lots of petrified wood, so my decisions are easier.
3) Pits in tumble rock. For me I don't mind pits in rocks, would rather have smooth river rounded material if I can get it. If the piece is a nice agate, then I say the heck with the pits, grinding on enough material to fill a tumbler is not how I wish to spend my time. If it's a really exception piece I may touch it up a bit but with most I go straight to the tumbler. I always do a 4 or 5 hour soap run between any SiC stage and the AO stages. In my mind passing a few grains of 46/70 or 80 SiC to 220 SiC is not that big a deal and those few grains will be broken down so quickly that they have no affect on the process.
They are your rocks, you set your own levels of expectations. There are no wrong answers to any of these three, it's always your choice.
For me this is not faceting, it's tumbling and the degree of precision can be ball park. Most agate and petrified wood is very forgiving and variations in the process are no big deal for me. Obsidian, Clear Quartz and Preforms are where I will tighten up my process as those materials are less forgiving.
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Post by fernwood on Nov 12, 2018 8:50:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I put this out there for others to really think about things before working with them.
For me, the crystals are 2 to 3", perfect. Pet wood is less than 3", with attractive bark. Ends show reds, blues, yellows. Agree on the pits.
Thanks.
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Post by rockjunquie on Nov 12, 2018 9:04:22 GMT -5
They are your rocks, you set your own levels of expectations. There are no wrong answers to any of these three, it's always your choice. That's how I look at it. If we all did things the same way- it would get kinda boring. As for cabbing, I always want the best polish possible. I will leave small pits if I have to. With some material, you almost can't get around it. I won't leave an obvious crack. Lots of otherwise good cabs have been tossed for them. Some cabs, as Tommy can attest to, look awesome with some natural rind left, but, again, it all depends on the material.
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Post by miket on Nov 12, 2018 10:36:03 GMT -5
I think some of the best advice I've gotten on this subject is this: As long as I'm happy with it, it's good enough for me. But I am brand new and doing it purely for the pleasure of my new hobby so far. Maybe someday I'll be more of a perfectionist- if I start to cab, for instance- but for now I am going to continue to experiment, listen to the pros here on RTH and do what makes me happy.
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,710
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Post by Tommy on Nov 12, 2018 10:42:23 GMT -5
As for cabbing, I always want the best polish possible. I will leave small pits if I have to. With some material, you almost can't get around it. I won't leave an obvious crack. Lots of otherwise good cabs have been tossed for them. Some cabs, as Tommy can attest to, look awesome with some natural rind left, but, again, it all depends on the material. I concur with this. There are several things I won't tolerate in a cabochon - the first one being obvious cracks and it's a show stopper. I will not work on a cracked cabochon unless it's a crack I can explain and show as normal - such as a natural crack across the agate center of a thunderegg cabochon where it's obvious that the crack does not extend into the matrix areas and will never destabilize the piece. The others are a shine I know can be better, and ANY man-made marks such as visible scratches or flat spots/scuffs. I will literally drive myself crazy rectifying either of these situations. I can't tell you how many times I'll get towards the end stages thinking I'm in the clear only to find a scratch or blemish and end up back to the start - or put the cab aside to start over later - or throw it in the "lost cabs" jar if it has given me a particular hard time. Some of my favorite and quickest selling cabs have been just rough as hell - natural edges, textured surface, pitting, etc. People like the natural look, especially like a thunderegg that has nice agate and rough natural edges of the original rind. I just spell the situation out in the description and try to show it adequately in the photos and let folks make their own decisions.
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Post by MsAli on Nov 12, 2018 11:02:22 GMT -5
One of the reasons I think it takes me so long to cab something is because I do try to get it "perfect" & that inst always going to happen, but if I can get the scratches out and one hell of a shine then I am pretty happy Drove myself nuts with some sunstone until I had to walk away.
I don't sell my cabs though-just don't think they are good enough yet. Although there are a few I am really proud of.
The main thing is something you always say and is your tag line: "Listen to the rock. The rock knows its destiny. It will guide you in fulfilling that."
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Nov 12, 2018 13:09:24 GMT -5
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".........It does not exist on it's own merit, but rather created by those who observe and their perceptions. Much like "perfection" being a condition or quality as free as possible of what one may perceive as flaws or defects........!.....It's all subjective until standards or measurements are applied by those who perceive "flaws or defects" as disqualifying rejection........
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fishnpinball
Cave Dweller
So much to learn, so little time
Member since March 2017
Posts: 1,491
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Post by fishnpinball on Nov 12, 2018 17:51:31 GMT -5
I see imperfections in stones all the time. Some I know will never be made into jewelry, because of the crack, etc... I just cut a boulder opal that kept opening up little holes. end result was not even worth a picture, the holes effectively hid the opal, which would have looked like 2 lightning strikes. I was very disappointed. I have gotten much better with scratches that I leave behind in the last year of doing this. I probably should go back and rework some of the earlier cabs.
On the other hand, you take a cab and get a good picture. You throw it on the computer and start seeing little scratches or other imperfections. I have to take a deep breath and tell myself that is alright because I am magnifying the stone by a factor of 20 sometimes. There is nothing visible at low magnification. But sometimes it still bugs me.
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goatgrinder
spending too much on rocks
Make mine a man cave
Member since January 2017
Posts: 368
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Post by goatgrinder on Nov 12, 2018 18:03:17 GMT -5
Good heuristics all around.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 12, 2018 19:17:47 GMT -5
Why strive for perfection can be countered with why settle for mediocre. I treat my tumbles much like Tommy treats his cabs. For the most part I will not leave a flaw that I know can be fixed. I would be willing to bet that about 5-10 percent of all of my finished tumbles end up getting repaired on a grinding wheel and ran again starting back at stage one to remove a flaw that showed up at polish stage. I do have exceptions for certain types of rock like pet woods and such but general jaspers, agates, chert and flint I am looking for flawless. The best part is that we all get to choose what we consider perfection to be. Chuck
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 12, 2018 19:58:59 GMT -5
Why strive for perfection can be countered with why settle for mediocre. I treat my tumbles much like Tommy treats his cabs. For the most part I will not leave a flaw that I know can be fixed. I would be willing to bet that about 5-10 percent of all of my finished tumbles end up getting repaired on a grinding wheel and ran again starting back at stage one to remove a flaw that showed up at polish stage. I do have exceptions for certain types of rock like pet woods and such but general jaspers, agates, chert and flint I am looking for flawless. Chuck Chuck, I do admire your work as your tumbles are flawless, the attention to detail shows. For myself, somewhere short of flawless works for most of my tumbles. On a side note, I use all of the trim pieces from the Preforms I cut out as the smalls for tumbling with those Preforms. My wife has taken to using those polished pieces to decorate small wooden crosses as a craft project and she has gotten the autistic boy across the street involved helping her look though them to keep and to decorate with. I have been teaching him the different types and he has gotten real good at identifying the type. So I like to think that some of my tumbles are doing some good. That and the kids at the Shows I do get a big kick out of picking out shiny rocks, even the big kids! Karma!
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Post by miket on Nov 13, 2018 18:01:37 GMT -5
Ok, now I feel like I'm jumping ship. I had a batch of agates that I had set back to make room for a barrel of wood and they've been tumbling in 120/220. I checked them at lunch today and sent them back to 80 for a week. I think they could be better so I'll check them next week.
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 13, 2018 19:24:45 GMT -5
Ok, now I feel like I'm jumping ship. I had a batch of agates that I had set back to make room for a barrel of wood and they've been tumbling in 120/220. I checked them at lunch today and sent them back to 80 for a week. I think they could be better so I'll check them next week. Oh No!!! You have gone over to the Dark Side!!! Shane come back! Come Back Shane!!! Just kidding, only you can decide when rocks are ready to move on. have fun and good luck with them. Henry
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