|
|
Post by fernwood on Nov 19, 2018 6:22:49 GMT -5
Admins. Please move if better placed elsewhere.
My daughter and I were at an artisan market yesterday with about 500 booths. We saw many booths with cabs and jewelry. My main goal for going was market research. We examined all the polished rocks, rough rocks/slabs, cabs, pendants and jewelry.
After each booth, we went to a quiet place to discuss what we saw. The biggest take away for me was that in most cases, adding a snap on or glued on bail in plated or base metal material, devalued the cab greatly. Presentation is also very important.
One booth had bins full of loose, beautiful cabs with these types of bails and others that were a head pin threaded vertical through the cab. They were priced at $5.00 each. There must have been over 300 pendants in the bins.
Other booths had lower quality cabs that were beautifully wire wrapped. All displayed individually. These were priced at $25.00 to $50.00 each. Some of these booths also had lower quality cabs with wire wrapped bails. They were priced at $10.00 to $20.00 each. We saw more of the wire wrapped pendants purchased than those with glue on bails.
It was a valuable piece of research. Also, helped my daughter understand why I am shying away from the glue/snap on bails. Why I do not display bins full of cabs/pendants and insist on each piece displayed individually. Understand that it takes much longer to display items this way, but feel the rewards outweigh the set up time.
I also noticed that individual, polished rocks, under 2" in size were priced up to $15.00 each! This included Lakers, Jaspers, common rocks. The lowest priced tumbles were $2.00 each.
1/4" Slabs under 4" were up to $15.00 each for common items. Lowest priced I found was for a slice of Jasper with not much going on. It was about 2" by 1 1/2". A little less than 1/4" thick. It was marked at $4.00. Highest priced was a 6" by 4" piece of Amethyst Sage for $28.00! It was very nice, but not that nice. Lower quality than what was in the most recent Traveling Rock box here.
We also saw many items that were not priced and signs instructing customers to ask for price. A big turn off to me.
When we were there, thousands of customers were walking through. Most booths were packed and the aisles were elbow to elbow. We often had to wait a few minutes to keep walking or enter a booth. Most exhibitors would spend minimal time talking with customers. Strictly business. Make the sale, wrap the item. Take the money.
We spent about 2 hours there. Entered about 15 booths. Walked past all.
Price of anything is always determined by what the seller wants/needs and the customer is willing to pay. Some booths were way over priced to me. Others were seasonally priced for Christmas.
So, what do others think? Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by HankRocks on Nov 19, 2018 9:04:00 GMT -5
(sorry but I am going to ramble a bit here)
Those prices sound way too high. I wonder if it's because it was not a "Rock Show". Just attended the Houston Gem and Mineral Show a week ago and I never saw slabs or tumble stones priced that high. Suppose my 4 for $1 tumbles are way too cheap. They do make a lot of kids happy, even the grown up kids!. That and most of the Dealers I talked to were friendly and helpful and everything was not just about the sale.
As it happens, I just did my first craft show of the Fall the past weekend. Did ok, although the cool rain that moved in Sunday afternoon pushed the attendance down a bit(it was an indoor show). Also need to add that this was a true craft show and I was the only person there selling rocks, minerals and pendants. That's a good news/bad news thing as folks going there are not really shopping for rocks, but I have no competition. There were about 5 or 6 folks who bought from me who were repeat customers from past shows who had sought me out, either because of what I had for sale or the good prices or both. That always makes you feel good when someone comes back.
I do sell pendants most of which are the pinch bail variety. Do not do any wrapping however I have a friend who I trade with who does nice job with some of my stuff. They are not in the same league as I have seen some of you folks make out here so I am able to put a price between $12 and $15 to $16. Built a board that can display 32 pendants on cords or chains which I usually put any wrapped stones or any really nice ones with the pinch bails that I sell for $10 or 2 for $18. Also putout about 90 to 100 pinch bailed stones in sectioned flats for $7 up to 4 for $20. If I was selling stones that were crafted as well as some I have seen out here the prices would need to be much higher. In my case I am targeting that customer base that really does not want to spend much more than $10 for a decent stone pendant.
Need to also add that I am a bit spoiled when it comes to buying rock. 95% of the material I have was either self collected or bought for $1 a pound or less or given to me. This year I managed to bring home 3000 lbs of material; about 700 collected, about 800 pounds given to me and the rest was $1 a pound. That definitely allows me to price things accordingly. One might think that the quality that I am bringing in is low, but it would surprise most to see some of the rock included in that 3000 pounds this year.
Another note on selling. It's hard to tolerate, or buy for that matter from folks who just don't have any personality. My wife and her 2 or 3 shopping friends all commented on this during the weekend. They would enter a booth and the folks there barely acknowledged them, much less any words of greeting. In almost all cases they walked out to see if they could find the same thing from a friendlier vendor. One doe not need to be the high-pressure back slapping car salesman type, just a simple "How are you folks today", "enjoying the Show?" anything to show some interest in them. In my case if folks hang around and show interest I can engage on where the rocks or from, or where I collected them or whatever. Not everyone wants to talk a lot, but at least engage them if they show some interest.
(apologies fro drifting away from the topic bit)
Henry
|
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Nov 19, 2018 9:11:23 GMT -5
@hankrocks Love your comments. Agree completely. I have a PR/Marketing background, plus 35+ years in Human Services. Understand the importance of that. Sending you a PM about some things. Thanks for responding.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 19, 2018 9:46:32 GMT -5
We only have one big show that comes twice a year- Treasures of the Earth. The prices I see there are WAAAAAAAY above what you are talking about. I don't know if it is the area or what, but wire wraps start around 50 and most are much much higher. But, we're talking about huge, professional set ups with lights and glass counter cases. Cabs run the gamut, with very few as cheap as your talking. Virtually no slabs, but the mediocre ones I saw were fairly cheap. I got the impression they just wanted to get rid of them. I didn't see a lot of jewelry with glued on bails etc or I just wasn't looking at them. It isn't that kind of show. I do live in a high income resort area. I guess everything depends on the kind of show you go to.
When I go to shows, I don't like very chatty vendors. I think everyone is different in that respect. I do want questions answered, but I don't really want to engage. I want to browse and move along. I do appreciate a welcome or acknowledgment, though, and a smiling face is a plus.
Overall, I think prices are dictated by the kind of show that it is. I know in my area, the shows we get tend to cater to a more affluent crowd with higher quality items and higher prices to go with them. The few "crafty" things I saw did not get much attention. So, it's another case of "know your audience". We do have smaller craft shows, but I haven't been to one in decades. There are only so many knitted pot holders I can take. LOL!
|
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 19, 2018 9:51:52 GMT -5
I have been selling at gem and mineral shows for about 5 years. I take pride in my work and I take pride in my display. My prices reflect that.
I do have a small stand that has about a dozen glue on bail pendants on cords for $10 each. I would rather not have those but I do sell at least one at every show. Most of the time a parent getting one for a small child.
I sell a lot of tumbled stones. More then any other vendor at every show I do. I usually have my bin of "u-pick" mixed tumbles that sell for $5 per velvet bag (over one half pound). I also have a couple dozen individual types of tumbled stones that sell per each piece and those range in price from $1 each to $25 each. The most expensive single tumble I have sold at a show was a 2.5" long lake Superior agate with deep purple amethyst center for $60. That might sound high but I still regret selling that rock. Every item in my booth was created by me so I know the value. Nobody can come up to me and tell me they can get the same quality tumbles at another booth for a better price. Own your prices and be able to back them up.
I do have a couple of bins of tumbles that say ask price and all of my cabs in riker trays are ask price. I will not place price tags on my cabs or tumbles. I am very hands on so If I see someone looking at items that are ask price I try to get right to them to help them. In my five years of selling I have had one customer get snotty with me about the ask price tumbles. She said to me "so I show you a rock and you just tell me whatever you want at that moment?" I said yes you show me the rock you would like and I think about how much I paid for that rough and how much time I spent on it and I tell you how much that is worth to me. In other words it is my rock that I polished but if you want it more then I do you can take it home. She happened to pick up a beautiful tumbled botswana agate half and I said $8. She put it down and walked away. I lost no sleep over it.
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 19, 2018 9:58:07 GMT -5
We only have one big show that comes twice a year- Treasures of the Earth. The prices I see there are WAAAAAAAY above what you are talking about. I don't know if it is the area or what, but wire wraps start around 50 and most are much much higher. But, we're talking about huge, professional set ups with lights and glass counter cases. Cabs run the gamut, with very few as cheap as your talking. Virtually no slabs, but the mediocre ones I saw were fairly cheap. I got the impression they just wanted to get rid of them. I didn't see a lot of jewelry with glued on bails etc or I just wasn't looking at them. It isn't that kind of show. I do live in a high income resort area. I guess everything depends on the kind of show you go to. When I go to shows, I don't like very chatty vendors. I think everyone is different in that respect. I do want questions answered, but I don't really want to engage. I want to browse and move along. I do appreciate a welcome or acknowledgment, though, and a smiling face is a plus. Overall, I think prices are dictated by the kind of show that it is. I know in my area, the shows we get tend to cater to a more affluent crowd with higher quality items and higher prices to go with them. The few "crafty" things I saw did not get much attention. So, it's another case of "know your audience". We do have smaller craft shows, but I haven't been to one in decades. There are only so many knitted pot holders I can take. LOL! I use the same line with just about every customer that walks up to my table. I just say "Hello, If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask." That is it. I do not engage after that until they ask a question. There are times that I will see someone looking at one item for awhile and I will walk over to tell them about it. But I never pester. I am trying to think of a way to promote the fact that every item on my tables were created by me. No imports and no re-selling. At gem and mineral shows that is rare. I am sure at craft and art shows it is different. Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 19, 2018 10:05:43 GMT -5
Every item in my booth was created by me so I know the value. Nobody can come up to me and tell me they can get the same quality tumbles at another booth for a better price. Own your prices and be able to back them up. You nailed it- be confident about your work and product. Know the value and stick to it. I know that you do a really sweet job with your shows. People should expect quality from you and your prices should reflect that quality and confidence. On etsy, for example, I hate to see some housewife making something that costs 10 to make and then see her sell it for 7. Not only are you devaluing your own product, but you are under cutting and making it more difficult for other people who actually want a profit. I could go on and on. Bottom line- charge for ALL the value in your product and stand behind your prices. Nevermind the few people who want justification for prices. They can always get something cheap and of less quality elsewhere. For you Beth, I'd say that your experience and your knowledge in a lot of the things you make and sell bring value to your product. The education a client receives with your product has value. |
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 19, 2018 10:07:39 GMT -5
We only have one big show that comes twice a year- Treasures of the Earth. The prices I see there are WAAAAAAAY above what you are talking about. I don't know if it is the area or what, but wire wraps start around 50 and most are much much higher. But, we're talking about huge, professional set ups with lights and glass counter cases. Cabs run the gamut, with very few as cheap as your talking. Virtually no slabs, but the mediocre ones I saw were fairly cheap. I got the impression they just wanted to get rid of them. I didn't see a lot of jewelry with glued on bails etc or I just wasn't looking at them. It isn't that kind of show. I do live in a high income resort area. I guess everything depends on the kind of show you go to. When I go to shows, I don't like very chatty vendors. I think everyone is different in that respect. I do want questions answered, but I don't really want to engage. I want to browse and move along. I do appreciate a welcome or acknowledgment, though, and a smiling face is a plus. Overall, I think prices are dictated by the kind of show that it is. I know in my area, the shows we get tend to cater to a more affluent crowd with higher quality items and higher prices to go with them. The few "crafty" things I saw did not get much attention. So, it's another case of "know your audience". We do have smaller craft shows, but I haven't been to one in decades. There are only so many knitted pot holders I can take. LOL! I use the same line with just about every customer that walks up to my table. I just say "Hello, If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask." That is it. I do not engage after that until they ask a question. There are times that I will see someone looking at one item for awhile and I will walk over to tell them about it. But I never pester. I am trying to think of a way to promote the fact that every item on my tables were created by me. No imports and no re-selling. At gem and mineral shows that is rare. I am sure at craft and art shows it is different. Chuck How about a sign or banner that simply says "Handmade in Michigan"? That might get people asking - by whom? |
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Nov 19, 2018 10:11:04 GMT -5
As a caveat- I should make it clear that I have never done a show, nor will I ever. My son did a few shows with my stuff at a small artshow and I was in a major art exhibition once and I have been published, but I won't do a show because I am not a people person. I'm a shy introvert- if you can believe it. So, all you doing shows are heads and shoulders above me. My experience with shows is as an observer/customer.
|
|
NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
|
Post by NRG on Nov 19, 2018 10:23:16 GMT -5
The cheap cabs you mention are almost certainly from India. Cut in huge factories by the pallet load. Cost is $0.10-1.00 each in large volume lots. It's not that the bail devalued the cab. It's that they are cheap quality goods to start with. jeannie has sold cabs with glue on bails. One of them she got $90 in trade value. I have thought about buying those cabs and repolishing in the Lotto. |
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 19, 2018 10:31:44 GMT -5
The cheap cabs you mention are almost certainly from India. Cut in huge factories by the pallet load. Cost is $0.10-1.00 each in large volume lots. It's not that the bail devalued the cab. It's that they are cheap quality goods to start with. jeannie has sold cabs with glue on bails. One of them she got $90 in trade value. I have thought about buying those cabs and repolishing in the Lotto. A vendor at the last show I did had a bin of K2 Jasper cabs that were horribly cabbed. He did not try to defend them at all he just stated that that's how they come in when he imports them. I told him some were large enough to re cut. He sold me a handful for $5 each even though the were all marked $12-$16. I made this from one of his 30x40 cabs and took it back wire wrapped the next day to show him.  Chuck |
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Nov 19, 2018 11:02:24 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I thought the cabs were mostly import. Even though they had high gloss. Planing on contacting that vendor in the future and asking. I know the area he is from. Tourist area and his shop is in the downtown area.
He also had lots of the dyed, Brazilian agate slices high priced.
|
|
|
|
Post by HankRocks on Nov 19, 2018 11:14:08 GMT -5
rockjunquie , Drummond Island Rocks , I understand where both of you are coming from, your work is super high caliber. Many times I will call my wife over to show her your latest wraps or tumbles and she is always impressed. I can sometimes duplicate the tumbling outcome but the Wraps and the Cabs are beyond my current skill set. Maybe someday I will get better, but probably not as pendants only make up about 15-20% of my Lapidary efforts. Cutting and polishing Geodes, Bookends, Slabs, cleaning Quartz etc take up most of my time. As it turns out that same percentage is about equal to the makeup of total sales. You do need to have a decent set of people skills to be actively involved in any type of sales. You don't need chatty, just polite friendly knowledgeable attitude, and be able to engage potential buyers when the need arises. Play to you strengths. I was not an engaging person in my younger years, however 42 years in the Engineering business helped me develop a decent set of communication skills. I had to deliver presentations to various sets of highly educated folks, both fellow workers and clients. They could spot BS in a heartbeat. Anyway I have found that I do enjoy selling aspect of this. A couple of things that helps with that is that this is not part of making a living for me, it's fun for me and a way to make some money to offset some of my Lapidary expenses. Another is that I can limit myself to 6 maybe 7 shows a year, or stop for 6 or 8 months because something more fun came up. I do feel for the folks who do this 20 to 30 times a year or more and that it is their main source of income. Tough business. One last thing, I promise! I am also a Karma person. If you treat enough people politely and help them out when you can, good things will happen to you. An example of that for me happened this weekend at the Show. When I showed up Friday afternoon to do my setup, went to the lady in charge to get my space assignment. To my surprise they had put me right by the main entrance on the end of a single booth aisle. When I commented on it and thanked her she said she remembered me from last year and enjoyed having me at their show. Later on Sat a couple of head ladies from one of the other Shows I recognized came by and said hi. Told them I had mailed my entry for their Show in the spring, and they oh yes you are in and we put you in the same spot. I always make sure to go by and thank any of the organizers after the Show for their efforts, they are all volunteers for the FFA fundraisers and appreciate a nice word. It beats the usual moaning and complaining they hear from a few Vendors. Henry
|
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 19, 2018 14:40:47 GMT -5
Booth rent and labor for working the booth are often overlooked items. My table costs run between $25-$50 per table per day. I only have a two table display so that can be $200 for the weekend. Most 2 day shows are open for a total of about 18 hours plus set up and tear down. If I valued my time extremely low at $10 per hour that is still $200 for the weekend. Those two items alone would mean the first $400 in sales go to overhead (that is a lot of tumbled stones even at $2 each). I also spend a lot of time the week before a show packing and prepping. I am sure that all sounds bad but I actually like the show weekends. I enjoy talking about rocks and it is a way to reduce my inventory so I have a reason to make more. The vendors that are trying to make a living have to worry more about those numbers.
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by HankRocks on Nov 19, 2018 17:33:08 GMT -5
Booth rent and labor for working the booth are often overlooked items. My table costs run between $25-$50 per table per day. I only have a two table display so that can be $200 for the weekend. Most 2 day shows are open for a total of about 18 hours plus set up and tear down. If I valued my time extremely low at $10 per hour that is still $200 for the weekend. Those two items alone would mean the first $400 in sales go to overhead (that is a lot of tumbled stones even at $2 each). I also spend a lot of time the week before a show packing and prepping. I am sure that all sounds bad but I actually like the show weekends. I enjoy talking about rocks and it is a way to reduce my inventory so I have a reason to make more. The vendors that are trying to make a living have to worry more about those numbers. Chuck One reason I like the Craft Shows is a 12' X 10' booth space only costs me $100, less if I register early. The venue is only about 5 miles from the house. The Show ended yesterday at 4:00 pm, I was packed up and home by 5:20 pm. I have managed to get myself organized to the point that packing up, loading and unloading the truck is a quick task. One would be hard-pressed to associate the word organized with me after one look in my garage! Not sure how to value my time, for me it's fun and entertaining so I tend to discount my rate. But you are correct, I don't envy anyone attempting to make a living in this business as it's a tough proposition. I am very glad I am in the "beer and gas money" mode. Henry |
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 19, 2018 22:06:24 GMT -5
Booth rent and labor for working the booth are often overlooked items. My table costs run between $25-$50 per table per day. I only have a two table display so that can be $200 for the weekend. Most 2 day shows are open for a total of about 18 hours plus set up and tear down. If I valued my time extremely low at $10 per hour that is still $200 for the weekend. Those two items alone would mean the first $400 in sales go to overhead (that is a lot of tumbled stones even at $2 each). I also spend a lot of time the week before a show packing and prepping. I am sure that all sounds bad but I actually like the show weekends. I enjoy talking about rocks and it is a way to reduce my inventory so I have a reason to make more. The vendors that are trying to make a living have to worry more about those numbers. Chuck One reason I like the Craft Shows is a 12' X 10' booth space only costs me $100, less if I register early. The venue is only about 5 miles from the house. The Show ended yesterday at 4:00 pm, I was packed up and home by 5:20 pm. I have managed to get myself organized to the point that packing up, loading and unloading the truck is a quick task. One would be hard-pressed to associate the word organized with me after one look in my garage! Not sure how to value my time, for me it's fun and entertaining so I tend to discount my rate. But you are correct, I don't envy anyone attempting to make a living in this business as it's a tough proposition. I am very glad I am in the "beer and gas money" mode. Henry I have only done one true craft show and it was not my cup of tea. The customer base just did not have much interest in tumbled rocks. I do not consider one show to be a very good gauge though. I might of just had a dud. The gem and mineral shows do cost more for table rent but you paying for a guaranteed rock enthusiast customer base. The bigger the head count the more they charge for tables. Our large show gets about 2,500-3,000 customers throughout the weekend and they all paid an entrance fee so you know they are fairly serious about rocks when they walk in the door. Kind of funny story. I am good friends with a vendor that does at least a dozen gem and mineral shows every year with a large six table booth with a large selection of import items. A couple years ago they decided to set up their display at a comic-con convention. Turns out that was their highest grossing show of the year. Their thought was that they were not competing with any other vendors. They were selling something unique. Chuck |
|
mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
|
Post by mikeinsjc on Nov 22, 2018 10:56:43 GMT -5
Lots of good advice here- OP thanks for the topic.
Me and my wife spend the summers in Montana doing our business. We set up in early June and break down after labor day. The business is near one of the five gates into Yellowstone park. I spend all winter polishing slabs and tumbling material. We take at least 1200 pounds of material to Montana each summer.
The first thing we learned is to know your customers. Our customers are 95% ignorant of rocks and minerals. They are tourists, overseas visitors, college students, parents with minivans full of screaming kids and are usually looking for something to appease the kids or a memento from the trip. For those people the item has to be cheap and pretty. They are not Santa Barbara or Laguna Beach people. Also, our town is not a destination Like Jackson- just a quick stop to pee the kids, gas up and grab a burger. This makes a big difference because everyone is in a hurry to get somewhere else.
The second thing we learned is that what appeals to us often does not appeal to our customers. Why our bookends don't fly off the shelf amazes me. It galls me that people prefer the arrowheads from India to my slabs that I cut and polish. All of which leads me to this- if you are going to be in business (which this is for us) you have to set aside your pride. For me, that means handling stuff that has little appeal to me.
You also have to be flexible. Because of our location, there are many repeat customers and they expect to see new stuff each time they come through. Trends come and go. Stuff that sold one year may sit on the shelves the next. My wife and I are old, and again what appeals to us- traditional jewelry for example- holds no interest for the Apple set.
Our best customers- bikers and Chinese (as much as I hate dealing with them-the Chinese I mean). Worst are locals and those for which our town is a day trip. The demographics in that area are not wealthy. When they drive up in a car with MT or WY plates, I know not to expect much.
OP, I haven't intended to hijack your post-sorry. Just thought some of what we have learned might be of interest.
|
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Nov 24, 2018 5:53:24 GMT -5
|
|
