jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 5:35:01 GMT -5
A mix of tumbled hand blown glass and melts done in a kiln. SiC 60 and SiC 500 in rotary. AO 220 and AO polish in vibe. 12 tablespoons of sugar in the AO 220 and AO polish vibe runs. This vibe is modified for shorter strokes(amplitude) but powerful enough to vibrate stones in very thick sugar slurry. The shorter travel and thick slurry seems to be the key to tumble polishing soft stones. Apparently oversea operations use adjustable amplitude vibes in reduced amplitude mode to tumble polish calcite, serpentine, fluorite and other soft stones. Happy Holidays to all ! www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/26731166147/in/album-72157698952154360/![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/787/41598869571_526a959780.jpg) ![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/826/40888165234_e2bb4c4ed2.jpg) ![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/855/40888159904_f2eac98928_z.jpg) ![](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/890/39791674470_6c8be68798_z.jpg)
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Post by fernwood on Dec 21, 2018 5:35:44 GMT -5
Nice ones.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 8:33:07 GMT -5
Thanks fernwood. Haven't been tumbling for 4 months. Other stuff going on.
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Post by fernwood on Dec 21, 2018 8:35:59 GMT -5
So glad you are back at it. Very familiar with the other stuff, but at times one needs to go back to their happy place.
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hnhstngs
noticing nice landscape pebbles
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Member since September 2018
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Post by hnhstngs on Dec 21, 2018 8:49:27 GMT -5
Such cool stuff! So many questions ....
You've mentioned in the past using SiC in rotaries and AO in vibes. Are you establishing a consistent base surface with the 500 SiC then "backing up" with the 220 AO to start the final finish process? I assume you're running the 220 AO for 3-4 days to allow time for it to break down far enough to move to the polish? Having this kind of success with this recipe in glass would you expect the same on a run of obsidian?
This recipe is a departure from what I usually see recommended for softer material (ie. add in a 1000 AO step before polishing). Can't argue with the results though and would really like to understand your thought process.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Dec 21, 2018 8:58:39 GMT -5
Loving the first eyeball piece. There's a few eyeballs in that 3rd green piece, too. Kind of eerie, that one. I like it!
Glad you were able to play with some glass for a little bit. Merry Christmas, jamesp!
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Post by MsAli on Dec 21, 2018 8:58:54 GMT -5
The 1st one is really cool Glad to see you back at it
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 9:39:04 GMT -5
fernwood hummingbirdstones MsAliThose are tumbles from back in February. Photos were never posted. Have not tumbled for several months. hummingbirdstones, the eyeball is a re-melted blob that had a big bubble where the eyeball is. The backing glass is opaque black. In other words a piece of blown glass with a bubble in it laid down on a piece of black glass and melted to it. For some reason the black backing glass erupted from the backside and filled the bubble to make an eyeball go figure. A discovery by accident. This can be repeated by drilling a hole in a decorative piece of glass and laying it on a piece of another colored glass and melting them together. The bottom color will rise and fill the hole in the top piece(again go figure). These eye balls can be impressive with wild concentric rings. Thanks for noticing.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 10:32:36 GMT -5
Such cool stuff! So many questions .... You've mentioned in the past using SiC in rotaries and AO in vibes. Are you establishing a consistent base surface with the 500 SiC then "backing up" with the 220 AO to start the final finish process? I assume you're running the 220 AO for 3-4 days to allow time for it to break down far enough to move to the polish? Having this kind of success with this recipe in glass would you expect the same on a run of obsidian? This recipe is a departure from what I usually see recommended for softer material (ie. add in a 1000 AO step before polishing). Can't argue with the results though and would really like to understand your thought process. I like this question and it is easy for me to answer because I made a deal a long time ago on some weird aluminum oxide abrasives hnhstngs. The deal involved 5 gallon buckets of AO 22, AO 46, AO 80 each. All 3 were (sand) blasting grade cheap aluminum oxide. Over the years I have tinkered with this mother load of coarse aluminum oxide in rotaries and vibes. Conclusion is aluminum oxide is from Venus(smooth like a lady) and silicon carbide is from Mars(prickly like a man). They are two very different abrasives. Aluminum oxide is the ultimate finishing abrasive and silicon carbide is the ultimate cutting abrasive. Well, since the vibe is the ultimate finishing machine then why not restrict it to alum ox. And the rotary is the ultimate cutting machine why not only use SiC in it... One good reason is contamination. Silicon carbide particles left in a vibe can reap havoc on a finish. Where alum ox is much less likely to scratch up your vibe load because you can polish rocks in a vibe with coarse AO 22-46-80. Because alum ox particles do not shatter into sharp particles like SiC particles do. They continually round off and eventually impart a polish regardless of their size. So the SiC 500 scratches and cuts rock way more than alum ox 22-46-80. It is the nature of the beast when tumbling Mohs 5 to Mohs 7. Silicon carbide is simply super aggressive on such hard materials. If you are sanding metal with alum ox paper or silicon carbide paper there is little difference because metal is way softer than glass or agates. SiC will break down in vibe or rotary. I just happen to run it with glass in a rotary because it breaks down fast for a 'pre-vibe finish'. But I rotary run the SiC 500 for 6 to 10 days(or longer) to break it down a lot. Because I have one vibe and 5 rotary barrels. Plenty of rotary capacity...less vibe capacity. The vibe is the bottleneck. You will find most tumbler's vibes sit dormant waiting for the rotary. So going from well broken down SiC 500 (in rotary) to AO 220(in vibe) seems to be the perfect transition step for my set up. Because my vibe has low amplitude but very powerful it will break down AO 220 in thick sugar slurry to about AO 5000 with only 25% quartz pea gravel media and 75% glass in 2 days. In other words a 220 finish to almost wet polish in 2 days using only one step without frosting glass. And many soft rocks. Most glass and obsidian are the exact same. Then 18 hours in AO 14,000 polish for fine shine. Rate of sugar is 12 tablespoons for 8 pounds in vibe making a thick syrup. Which would easily stop the stones in a Lot-O
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Post by 1dave on Dec 21, 2018 11:40:03 GMT -5
Looks FISHY to me. ![1](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/855/40888159904_f2eac98928_z.jpg)
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hnhstngs
noticing nice landscape pebbles
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Member since September 2018
Posts: 93
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Post by hnhstngs on Dec 21, 2018 11:44:57 GMT -5
Thanks Jamesp! This is great information and your rationale for using different types of abrasives in different tumblers makes sense.
I tried a sugar slurry once but it was in 45C and it did not go well (blowout). That was before I had access to a vibe though and I can see there would be a fundamental difference between them. It may be interesting to try using it again in the vibe. In regards to the amplitude variable, I have a UV-3 which I will guess is markedly smaller than what you are tumbling the glass in. I have no idea what the amplitude is and I'm not sure it can be tuned. It may be that with such a small bowl the amplitude would have less of an effect although given how a vibe works I'm not sure I believe that. I do know that with a good percentage of ceramics/quartz as media the action is very smooth in the bowl and I don't think there is much of a chance for surface bruising. I just finished a run of Apache Tears that look to have a good shine. I'll try to get pics up in a new thread for feedback.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 12:21:05 GMT -5
Looks FISHY to me. ![1](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/855/40888159904_f2eac98928_z.jpg) Italian hand blown. White backing color. How they made the fish scale patterns ?? No idea, probably some 9 generation old Italian secret.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,353
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Post by jamesp on Dec 21, 2018 12:37:29 GMT -5
Thanks Jamesp! This is great information and your rationale for using different types of abrasives in different tumblers makes sense. I tried a sugar slurry once but it was in 45C and it did not go well (blowout). That was before I had access to a vibe though and I can see there would be a fundamental difference between them. It may be interesting to try using it again in the vibe. In regards to the amplitude variable, I have a UV-3 which I will guess is markedly smaller than what you are tumbling the glass in. I have no idea what the amplitude is and I'm not sure it can be tuned. It may be that with such a small bowl the amplitude would have less of an effect although given how a vibe works I'm not sure I believe that. I do know that with a good percentage of ceramics/quartz as media the action is very smooth in the bowl and I don't think there is much of a chance for surface bruising. I just finished a run of Apache Tears that look to have a good shine. I'll try to get pics up in a new thread for feedback. The secret with vibes polishing soft materials would be both low amplitude and reduction of sharp(damaging) reversals. The only way to know this information accurately is by connecting hopper to a vibration analyzer. Yet the ability to vibrate stones in a thick slurry which is a bit of an oxymoron. I have a Vibrasonic. With the latest heavy home made steel hopper it holds 8 pounds. But has a powerful 1/3 HP motor and large counterweights. It seems to be near unstoppable regardless of slurry thickness; the stones rotate with the thickest and stickiest of slurry. A sticky slurry being driven by lots of power greatly speeds up abrasive break down because of powerful contact forces between the stones. I believe this is similar to the large oversea machines equipped with amplitude reduction adjustments and their use of thick slurries. Amplitude adjustment and reversal adjustment would require high tech testing equipment to design and build such a machine. Most of those machines are large and have donut shaped hoppers. But rest assured their machines are dynamically tested with vibration analyzers to see what the eye cannot see.
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Post by 1dave on Dec 21, 2018 13:13:36 GMT -5
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Dec 21, 2018 22:20:27 GMT -5
1dave - it looks like a moray eel!
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Post by orrum on Dec 22, 2018 9:14:41 GMT -5
Wowser Jim!!!
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Post by TheRock on Dec 23, 2018 0:49:58 GMT -5
Fricken Outstanding!
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