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Post by fernwood on Jan 5, 2019 19:52:35 GMT -5
This is a frustration post. Appreciate others chiming in with their finds where they should not be or anyone who acknowledges that I am finding glacial deposits of some very unique things. Since moving to my present location in late 2015, I have made many finds that I thought were amazing. Will not post photos here, as I have already posted them since becoming a RTH member. When showing local geologists, natural history museum director and “local” rock club members some of these, they have all been skeptical. Am often told that someone scattered a major fossil/rock collection over my 39 acres of land. Some were also scattered on my neighbors 40 acres. What was scattered includes many fossils. Mostly coral, but some shells, teeth and bones. Some Malachite, Amethyst, Bornite, Lake Superior (and other) Agates, Bricia Jasper, volcano “bombs” and petrified wood, to name a few. I have gathered over 1000 pounds of these materials. Why would someone take the time to randomly deposit over 1000 lbs. of a rock collection over almost 80 acres? Most finds on my land occurred when the fields were plowed for the first time. Either first time in over 15 years, or, possible, first time in 25+ years. Some occurred in dry creek beds. Others were in the ancient rock walls on the property. Some just presented themselves on the groomed ATV/riding trails. My son in law has taken most of the geology classes offered at the local college and has been helping me. We determined that my land was where the latest Wisconsin glacier ended and melted. It traveled from the North East. It was also the edge of glacial Lake Wisconsin to the West. There is a major, but mostly unknown Amethyst deposit in NE Wisconsin. I am having a tough time understanding why the glacier could not have transported many of the items I am finding. Also, why some could not have been washed into the land from the glacial lake. Would appreciate thoughts from 1dave, toiv0 (who has been to my place and very familiar with the area) and other experts here. Am just getting tired of others questioning my finds and saying I am not finding them on my land. Or, that they were left there by others. My specific location in Wisconsin is shown on my Avitar. SE Portage County, WI. If anyone really wants to see photos, I will post them, but it will take a while to find specific ones on my computer, upload to Flickr and post. Thank you. |
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 5, 2019 20:19:17 GMT -5
fernwood It doesn't matter what folks say about it not being there naturally, the discussion has passed them by and is now defined by "how did it get there?". Glaciers seem to be the obvious answer. Of course, before the glaciers there were lot's of other events that could have scattered material. Ancient rivers, Inland Seas, old uplifts, etc,etc.... This reminds me of the pictures that txrockhunter has posted of rocks found in the gravel banks of the San Jacinto river just north of Houston. At first glance my reaction some of those rocks should not be there, yet they are and how they got there is interesting question. Glaciers did not come this far south so it has to be alluvial in nature, maybe 2 or 3 separate alluvial events. It also reminds me of the urban legend that a lot of the folks in Texas like to spread, that the Woodward Ranch was seeded with Agate. So if the legend were to be true, Frank Woodward paid someone to collect these agates, Red Plume at that, somewhere in Mexico, haul them 200 or 300 miles and pay them to scatter them over 10,000 acres and then sell them for .50 cents to a $1 a pound and make a profit. On the other hand all one had to do was find the exposed Rhyolite on the Ranch with agate nodules embedded to know that all the agate found was weathering out naturally.
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 5, 2019 20:37:45 GMT -5
Glaciers are one possibility. A major flood is also a possibility. There was a massive flood from an ice dam break in what is now Canada that is said to have deposited a lot of the rocks in the Midwest.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 5, 2019 20:38:46 GMT -5
fernwood It doesn't matter what folks say about it not being there naturally, the discussion has passed them by and is now defined by "how did it get there?". Glaciers seem to be the obvious answer. Of course, before the glaciers there were lot's of other events that could have scattered material. Ancient rivers, Inland Seas, old uplifts, etc,etc.... This reminds me of the pictures that txrockhunter has posted of rocks found in the gravel banks of the San Jacinto river just north of Houston. At first glance my reaction some of those rocks should not be there, yet they are and how they got there is interesting question. Glaciers did not come this far south so it has to be alluvial in nature, maybe 2 or 3 separate alluvial events. It also reminds me of the urban legend that a lot of the folks in Texas like to spread, that the Woodward Ranch was seeded with Agate. So if the legend were to be true, Frank Woodward paid someone to collect these agates, Red Plume at that, somewhere in Mexico, haul them 200 or 300 miles and pay them to scatter them over 10,000 acres and then sell them for .50 cents to a $1 a pound and make a profit. On the other hand all one had to do was find the exposed Rhyolite on the Ranch with agate nodules embedded to know that all the agate found was weathering out naturally. DITTO! Glaciers is obviously the answer. Why they would not see that answer makes them the question, not the material. "Geological Correctness" is becoming a problem. |
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fishnpinball
Cave Dweller 
So much to learn, so little time
Member since March 2017
Posts: 1,491 
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Post by fishnpinball on Jan 5, 2019 23:42:45 GMT -5
Also I get reminded from time to time of the fact that the pattern of rivers can change in a short period of time, let alone become a totally different part of the terrain. Leaving material behind that appears unexplained.
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 5, 2019 23:48:54 GMT -5
Well I for one find things where they are not suppose to be. I found a small sharks tooth embedded in limestone outside Duluth MN on lake Superior, I also found lots of amethyst in the alluvial till. Nearest amethyst is around Thunder bay so yours traveling from NE WI is not unusual. The various pits I work in northern IL have trouble with native copper clogging the crushers nearest known is the UP MI 20 miles away there is no problem. There have been Diamonds found in southern WI in alluvial till, nearest location known is east of lake Huron. Most Of Northern Mn is now in Iowa. When they dredge below the overburden around Des Moines they pull mammoth teeth, bones, shells and other fossils buried under MN (glacial till). I find agates like crazy from Carlton MN to Moose Lake, But one area produces 10 times the next area. There is no rhyme or reason. So what I am trying to say is anything is possible. The last glacial age was 7 to 14 thousand years ago but what about the one before that. What did it deposit? Was that dragged with the last? What about before that. Who knows, There were two glacial lakes over or around your area after the last Ice age. gsa.confex.com/gsa/2004AM/finalprogram/abstract_76387.htmSo as all of this material has been rolled, pushed, tumbled by the glacial action it stands to reason that somethings get caught, stuck, piled up by obstructions, kind of like gold around a boulder. You would also think with your son in law knowing what he knows and who he knows some of the experts would step up to the plate. The one question I do ask is how far it is on your land to bed rock, the fossils and material are being weathered out obviously from the till above bed rock. East of Waupaca about 15 miles lies solid limestone (has fossils) Then comes the sandy area along with huge granite boulder fields then your area, west of that granite, rotten granite, and sand stone they make frac sand from. So in just a matter of 50 miles you can find lots of different things to question. This mineral list tells of the minerals in Waupaca county www.mindat.org/loc-59342.html, at the end it said most of the bedrock is covered in glacial till. To the NW in Marathon co the mineral list is times 4. And last but not least is what does it matter what other people think, it is there. Maybe it is special, maybe it isn't, not everyone shares our enthusiasm for these type of things. My motto is keep your head low and hope no one notices you. It has worked so far for 66 years. If you know and believe that is all you need, keep your powder dry and keep on keeping on. |
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 6, 2019 0:07:30 GMT -5
DITTO! Glaciers is obviously the answer. Why they would not see that answer makes them the question, not the material. "Geological Correctness" is becoming a problem. I think the scientist see with blinders on sometimes and can't step out of their comfort zone. They obviously know the answer but don't think its unusual that there is a 1/4 square mile of unusual material. There are quite a few gravel pits within 15 miles that have crushed and processed this same materials and have only seen driveway material, fill, and and concrete. When I am around the pits the guys wonder what I look for, they just see rock. They shut down the expansion of Hwy 10 between Stevens Point and Waupaca when they found a few indian points in a marsh. The political correct did their due diligence then construction began again. I think sometimes its the flavor of the day which turns the wheels. |
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Post by 1dave on Jan 6, 2019 7:34:01 GMT -5
Most people DO NOT LOOK!
"Scientists" have only their reputation to keep them from oblivion and don't dare speculate outside of the accepted box for fear of ostracism.
Failure is the only road to success. Without crawling, walking would never happen. Food all over everything becomes efficient eating. Riding a tricycle becomes driving huge vehicles.
But today failure is not an option.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,718
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 6, 2019 10:20:12 GMT -5
Yuppers around here the great Montana flood carried material miles and miles.. In North Dakota, the glaciers carried material into that area...
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lookatthat
Cave Dweller
Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
Posts: 1,360 
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Post by lookatthat on Jan 6, 2019 10:56:30 GMT -5
Glacial Lake Missoula and the Channeled Scablands. There is a neat video on this.
I personally suspect Letchworth State Park "may" have a similar origin, but it seems impossible to even have a discussion with scientists about the possibility, because "everybody knows" it was caused by gradual erosion. They won't even entertain the notion that it could be something else.
When in doubt, always blame the glaciers. I always do!
Oh, and by the way fernwood, sorry I haven't been able to keep up with our rock-scattering agreement. I may have to wait until spring before sending over the next dump truck. Got some nice fluorescent material for you this time, that ought to really throw them off.
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Post by fernwood on Jan 6, 2019 15:18:01 GMT -5
Glacial Lake Missoula and the Channeled Scablands. There is a neat video on this. I personally suspect Letchworth State Park "may" have a similar origin, but it seems impossible to even have a discussion with scientists about the possibility, because "everybody knows" it was caused by gradual erosion. They won't even entertain the notion that it could be something else. When in doubt, always blame the glaciers. I always do! Oh, and by the way fernwood, sorry I haven't been able to keep up with our rock-scattering agreement. I may have to wait until spring before sending over the next dump truck. Got some nice fluorescent material for you this time, that ought to really throw them off. LOLOL. Love your sense of humor. |
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Post by fernwood on Jan 6, 2019 15:18:41 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the agreement that I am not crazy and finding very special things where they should not be.
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Post by arghvark on Jan 7, 2019 9:37:22 GMT -5
Sometimes experts can be blinded by what they know. This occurs in many fields of endeavor, not the least of which is scientific research, in all areas. Obviously you're not crazy (well, with regard to the rocks you have found  ) since you found them. They were there. Don't let yourself be gaslit by "experts". One of the greatest compliments I ever received, about 20 years ago, after solving a significant problem at my job by using an approach that "shouldn't" have worked. I was just a few months into a role that I was completely inexperienced with: "The advantage you have as a newbie is that you don't know what isn't possible." |
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Post by 1dave on Jan 7, 2019 9:53:38 GMT -5
Sometimes experts can be blinded by what they know. This occurs in many fields of endeavor, not the least of which is scientific research, in all areas. Obviously you're not crazy (well, with regard to the rocks you have found ) since you found them. They were there. Don't let yourself be gaslit by "experts". One of the greatest compliments I ever received, about 20 years ago, after solving a significant problem at my job by using an approach that "shouldn't" have worked. I was just a few months into a role that I was completely inexperienced with: "The advantage you have as a newbie is that you don't know what isn't possible." |
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Jan 8, 2019 12:52:21 GMT -5
Just the for record about 5 or 6 years ago don't remember the channel maybe the science channel I really dont remember which one.
But the fact of the matter it was about when the 50 US states was covered with ice. That being said how many thousands of years ago was that 50 thousand years ago or more, anyway during that time maine for instance was covered with ice 2 miles thick.
When the ice melted what do you think happened river's, streams were formed now they are called ancient river's, stream beds, look at good mining in Alaska one spot was called just that a ancient river bed that's where they dig for ancient gold deposits.
So with all this melting going on from the ice covered us, creating water levels to rise forming new rivers and streams due to the massive chunks of ice that began to melt of coarse this process started slowly at first, until the new land formations also began to warm speeding up the melting process.
In these massive blocks of ice were sometimes very large boulders of enormous sizes to pebbles of grains of sand all this debrieses was carried for several if not more correctly several states away.
It was from this warming period over several thousand of years many things were happening hills, valleys and mountains were being carved out and rivers were forming around mountains adding new minerals and gems to the freshly made water ways. In the mean time these massive chunks of ice was also dropping off minerals, rocks of various types some containing other minerals and crystals that were traped in the ice and not local to some areas.
In most cases like with meteorites or massive chunks of gem material if it doesn't have crystal faces its quartz if there is no fusion crust it's a rock if you use a magnet it's magnatite. Thats the common answer from some of the geologists, professors or any person with a degree that has only studied one area or just plain suck at what they do..
I can show you meteorites that I saw falling in my backyard in 2010 from the perseids meteorite shower I took a reading from a digital compass that fried from collecting the next day. I also have a rock that was trapped in a glacier that has been injected with various minerals leaving a bullseye dated by the maine usgs as 600 thousand years old. This is what got me started in reading and learning about glacial desposits and (Liesegang banding a German word from the maine usgs) another learning curve for me.
Its amazes me to no end at some of the many answers you can get from some people when you witnessed a event meteorite shower for example and they come up with the reason your wrong and they are right.
Just my two cents worth
Thanks for reading
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Post by 1dave on Jan 8, 2019 14:03:27 GMT -5
dreamrocks Liesegang layers are common where impact shock waves have collapsed pore spaces in sandstone, forcing the water out and leaving iron behind. Iron concretions are built in those areas during harmonic reverberations rapidly turning quartz crystal piezoelectric properties on and off.
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Post by fernwood on Jan 8, 2019 14:42:40 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your amazing stories. I will keep finding more things on my land that should not be there. Share these rocks with others. If they say I am misrepresenting where they were found, so be it. I will be a peace with myself and what I have found.
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dreamrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
I got lucky this morning and was able to post this no others since
Member since November 2018
Posts: 1,232
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Post by dreamrocks on Jan 8, 2019 16:37:22 GMT -5
dreamrocks Liesegang layers are common where impact shock waves have collapsed grain spaces in sandstone, forcing the water out and leaving iron behind. Iron concretions are built in those areas during harmonic reverberations rapidly turning quartz crystal piezoelectric properties on and off. The USGS let me spend sometime there picking there brains reading through their reference books asking them many questions about liesegang banding and glacial deposites. In turn they recommended books the state library had I could check out. I could also come back during or after reading and pick their brains some more so I did. These were verified by them as also being liesegang banding, but don't quote me on this but are also sedimentary rocks. Your making me think when I am thinking of placing a rock and grit order. For get it gonna go play guitar order tomorrow.  |
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Post by fernwood on Jan 8, 2019 17:01:01 GMT -5
dreamrocks Play guitar? I also play guitar and dulcimer. Sometimes to my rock specimens.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 8, 2019 18:03:55 GMT -5
The liesgang banding occurs in the sedimentary layers from before the impact, but not after it.
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) since you found them. They were there. Don't let yourself be gaslit by "experts".
