cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Feb 23, 2019 12:44:31 GMT -5
This is my first post, still a noob here on the forum, lol. However, as a first post I think a build thread is appropriate. I am Currently in the process of drafting a plan to build my own 6", 6 Wheel grinding machine and need some help with a few ideas. I plan on building this from the base up, cutting and bending the base metal housing and hood, having custom shafting machined locally, finding and mounting proper bearings, and implementing the drive system, and simple 6 station water system with valves to each wheel. I am just looking for some guidance, help, suggestions, or any advice from others who have done any similar, metal work, plumbing or anything regarding engineering a lapidary machine. I want go with at least 26" for the shafting to leave plenty of space between wheels and bearings. And I am considering stainless overall for the shaft and machine housing itself. The few topics I could use guidance with are: 1) What type of steel/ or aluminum for the arbor housing? Stainless or not, what gauge would YOU use? 3) Is a 1" shaft overkill, or would 3/4" be more efficient? 4) Measurements overall? Pan width and length? hood height? Hinged or removable hood? 5) Proper Bearing spacing, type, and mounting, to deliver the best shaft performance. 6) Any Tips on websites to source quality parts and materials without paying a fortune? 7) Do you think the photo below is "The Way to Go" Lortone style?
A lot of questions, I know, but any and all info would be much appreciated, thanks for looking! Have a spectacular day!
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 23, 2019 13:19:24 GMT -5
Welcome from Northern Arizona!
I can't help you out with your machine because I'm majorly not mechanically inclined, but there are lots of folks who have built there own here and I'm sure they'll be chiming in to help you out.
Here's a great place to start browsing around to get some ideas, though:
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 23, 2019 21:32:40 GMT -5
Hello and welcome. That's a lot of questions. I think the suggestion above is a great way to start. Look at what others have done.
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Post by manofglass on Feb 24, 2019 9:37:13 GMT -5
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 2, 2019 15:36:30 GMT -5
Finally got my REZies from Lithuania!(Baltic Abrasive Tech.) They def look as pictured, burly and beautiful.
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Post by arghvark on Mar 2, 2019 21:11:02 GMT -5
I'll just chime in to ditto again the first two suggestions. I'm in the process of (very slowly) building one as well, and the DIY pages have extremely helpful.
One comment about the shaft. I went with 1" because I'm building mine with just two inboard bearings, as several others here have done. If you were putting bearing supports on the ends it seems like 3/4" would be just fine.
Argh
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 6, 2019 10:42:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion Arghvark, do you have a build thread up? I will most likely go with twin central or inboard bearing placement. I am curious to know the proper mounting width of the bearings depending on shaft length and diameter of course. Some of the physics equations I have looked up are a lil over my head, lol.
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 6, 2019 11:13:33 GMT -5
I Decided to go with a 3/4" (304) Stainless shaft cut at 30". Will have it threaded 3/4"-16 both sides, with a set screw flat dead center, and two retaining ring grooves spaced just outside the bearing sleeves, once I figure out the mounting distance. Was also considering having one end tapped @ 1/4"- 20, but not sure if I want to go that route. And still trying to decide which Gauge and type of of steel to use for the housing. Ill get some photos up when the shaft is done... Thanks for the comments everyone!
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Mar 6, 2019 23:10:59 GMT -5
One of those 3/4-16 threads should be left-handed to go on the left end of the shaft when facing the machine. Parts [wheels and such] will self tighten rather than trying to work themselves loose that way. If you use bearings with set screw or eccentric locking collars you don't need retaining rings to keep things in place. Make sure the place you buy the shaft material knows you are planning to put bearings on it, a regular old off-the-shelf piece of stainless shaft has a tolerance of +.003 on the diameter.
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 7, 2019 0:21:36 GMT -5
Like Larry said, if you want the wheels to stay on definitely thread the left end with left handed threads, and make sure you send the nuts to fit out to the shop with your shaft. Stainless TGP Shafting is what you want, here's one source, but you may find a better price elsewhere. www.metalsdepot.com/stainless-steel-products/stainless-steel-tgp-shaftingI would also have them thread 1/4 20 on at least one end, you can always put a set screw in the hole to protect the threads when not using it. When building the unit consider cleaning, removable trays and spray shields are awful handy.
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 7, 2019 9:49:48 GMT -5
One of those 3/4-16 threads should be left-handed to go on the left end of the shaft when facing the machine. Parts [wheels and such] will self tighten rather than trying to work themselves loose that way. If you use bearings with set screw or eccentric locking collars you don't need retaining rings to keep things in place. Make sure the place you buy the shaft material knows you are planning to put bearings on it, a regular old off-the-shelf piece of stainless shaft has a tolerance of +.003 on the diameter.
Yes, the shaft will have the standard right hand regular and left hand reverse threads. As for the retaining ring, it will be for the grinding wheel placement. I want to offset the first inboard wheel on each side a small distance away from the set screw collar on the bearing, to avoid any extra load on the bearing itself, and keep away from having to add a collar. I dont know if keeping the wheels off the bearing is necessary but it makes sense to me, I guess, lol. The shop that sold me the shaft said it is bearing quality, with appropriate tolerance for my application, but I'll keep that in mind when I take it in for machining. Thanks for the input Larry! I appreciate it!
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 7, 2019 10:00:43 GMT -5
Like Larry said, if you want the wheels to stay on definitely thread the left end with left handed threads, and make sure you send the nuts to fit out to the shop with your shaft. Stainless TGP Shafting is what you want, here's one source, but you may find a better price elsewhere. www.metalsdepot.com/stainless-steel-products/stainless-steel-tgp-shaftingI would also have them thread 1/4 20 on at least one end, you can always put a set screw in the hole to protect the threads when not using it. When building the unit consider cleaning, removable trays and spray shields are awful handy. Interesting, I def see why that would be the best selection for shafting. Probably a good idea to just get one side tapped 1/4" 20 while its in the shop. Removable trays, thats something I didn't think of. Great input, sounds like you and Larry have some experience in the DIY department. Thank you my friend!
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 7, 2019 10:14:51 GMT -5
Any suggestions on wheel flanges, and spacers? Source, size, material, price? What are you guys and gals out there using, other than PVC tubing? Anything to help the wheels align flawlessly?
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Post by arghvark on Mar 8, 2019 22:17:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion Arghvark, do you have a build thread up? I will most likely go with twin central or inboard bearing placement. I am curious to know the proper mounting width of the bearings depending on shaft length and diameter of course. Some of the physics equations I have looked up are a lil over my head, lol. I don't have a thread up. My progress is extreeeemely slow. Unfortunately, I'm also approaching this from a highly nontechnical perspective, so I can't address "proper" bearing spacing. I looked at what others did, estimated required wheel spacing, then based on shaft length and wheel widths set my bearings at about 6 inch centers. Seems to be wider than what others have done. Note my shaft is 36" (ok, 35 1/2 after a "minor machining mishap" by a friend. ) I'm sorta hoping it will work at this point, and if I get wobble I'll reconsider and reset.
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Post by arghvark on Mar 8, 2019 22:45:41 GMT -5
When building the unit consider cleaning, removable trays and spray shields are awful handy. Was thinking this as well. That's partly why I'm going with 1/4" HDPE, instead of metal (that, and easier to work with.) I'm going with a slight modification of Walt's manofglass design. My thought is to make the shrouds separate from the arbor housing and trays. The idea is for the walls of the shrouds to snugly fit just inside the trays, and make "hooks" from two strips of HDPE that will be epoxied to the shroud walls which slip over the walls of the trays. The hope here is that this will allow for shrouds that will be stable but will just lift off when desired. They can always be anchored on the outside with velcro if needed. Here's a crude drawing to help visualize. .
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
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Post by NRG on Mar 10, 2019 16:18:43 GMT -5
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
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Post by quartz on Mar 10, 2019 23:04:10 GMT -5
The 1/4-20 right hand tapped thread is for holding a leather or canvas polishing pad as seen on the right end of the shaft on a Genie, that's what is on ours.
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 11, 2019 7:17:53 GMT -5
Like Larry said, if you want the wheels to stay on definitely thread the left end with left handed threads, and make sure you send the nuts to fit out to the shop with your shaft. Stainless TGP Shafting is what you want, here's one source, but you may find a better price elsewhere. www.metalsdepot.com/stainless-steel-products/stainless-steel-tgp-shaftingI would also have them thread 1/4 20 on at least one end, you can always put a set screw in the hole to protect the threads when not using it. When building the unit consider cleaning, removable trays and spray shields are awful handy. Turns out the shaft is TGP, lucked out on that one. Thanks again!
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cozmonautt
off to a rocking start
Crystal Addiction is Real
Member since August 2018
Posts: 18
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Post by cozmonautt on Mar 13, 2019 17:59:11 GMT -5
So I have been thinking about bearing selection options. Set Screw VS Concentric bearing mounting Types. Does anyone have any input on "set screw" type bearings vs. "concentric" type? For instance does the set screw insert cause enough shaft misalignment to create noticeable vibration? Whereas Concentric mounting 'supposedly' eliminates any shaft misalignment or vibration due to the advanced (self centering) locking mechanism. Does this even matter at 1800RPM? Kind of a advanced technical question, my brain has to consider every possibility for some reason? Thanks again folks, I appreciate you all!
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 13, 2019 19:43:23 GMT -5
So I have been thinking about bearing selection options. Set Screw VS Concentric bearing mounting Types. Does anyone have any input on "set screw" type bearings vs. "concentric" type? For instance does the set screw insert cause enough shaft misalignment to create noticeable vibration? Whereas Concentric mounting 'supposedly' eliminates any shaft misalignment or vibration due to the advanced (self centering) locking mechanism. Does this even matter at 1800RPM? Kind of a advanced technical question, my brain has to consider every possibility for some reason? Thanks again folks, I appreciate you all! All the cabber units and saws I have ever seen that utilized pillow block or flange bearings has used the set screw type with no issues. I don't personally see a problem with the concentric type either. See, I'm a lot of help...
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