meanie
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2019
Posts: 8
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Post by meanie on Feb 23, 2019 12:47:54 GMT -5
Hi all, after having enjoyed playing with the toy rock tumbler I got my kids for christmas, I decided to get a proper one for myself--a lortone 33B (two barrels, one tumbler). Right now, I have moss agate in one, and bahia agate in the other. They've been going for three days (60/90), and I decided to peek today to see how things were going. The slurry in the moss tumbler is foamy and gritty to the touch, while the bahia agate is kind of watery. I assume foamy and gritty is what I want? What did I do wrong with that bahia agate? I noticed that there's a kind of mud at the bottom of the barrel in the bahia agate. Will I need to start over? Thanks!
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Feb 23, 2019 13:11:36 GMT -5
Hi meanie, I'll leave your questions for the expert tumblers but just wanted to say welcome!  |
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kskid
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Member since July 2014
Posts: 98 
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Post by kskid on Feb 24, 2019 0:06:04 GMT -5
Hi meanie, and welcome. What you did wrong was open the barrel after just 3 days and expect to see slurry. Just kidding...nothing wrong with peeking to check. However, if you're just starting out you likely don't know yet what you're checking for.  You'll probably get several good (and differing) suggestions in the next few days. My suggestion would be to let 'em roll uninterupped for 1 week minimum and see what happens. Personally, I go 2 weeks at a time. I would expect that in a week your slurry will be fine. I aim for pancake batter consistency. Sometimes I get thinner, sometimes stiffer. Unless there's a recurring problem I don't sweat small variations. As you proceed with your tumbling, pay attention to what the barrel sounds like as it rolls. You develop a knack for what sounds right or wrong and when opening the barrel early is warranted. Don't get me wrong - you can open the barrel every day if that is how you like to roll! I'm not surprised you're seeing foamy, gritty slurry after 3 days. It should smooth out as the roll runs its course. Foam that is seeping out of the barrel or bulging the barrel is a different matter - and a typical reason one would open a barrel to check the contents. I've seen several recent threads concerning mud-like sludge in strange places, i.e. on the bottom or on one side only. You can search around to find them. Very odd for a round container spinning on its side. There were lots of ideas, but I don't know that any of the posts were explained satisfactorily. I've never experienced this myself. Congrats on the Lortone 33B - nice machine! |
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Post by aDave on Feb 24, 2019 0:57:50 GMT -5
Hi meanie, welcome to the forum. To a certain degree from what I've seen above, I agree...let your barrels roll. Three days into your coarse stage, especially with your specific tumbler, will do little to give you an indication as to how things should be progressing. First thing to know about your specific tumbler is that it will not break down material and create a slurry as fast as larger tumblers. You have the disadvantage of "not alot of weight" in your barrel to help grit work the way that it should. It's not a criticism - it's just the nature of the beast for your particular tumbler. The fact you're seeing what you're seeing is not a surprise after only three days. As to the foamy barrel, I would suspect that it's due to the material you're running. You might have some organic material on the rocks that is causing the foam, and that will go away over time. Your second barrel contains material that is really, really hard, and I wouldn't expect it to create foam. The fact you're seeing mud on the bottom of the barrel only relates to the barrel sitting upright for a period of time and all solids are settling to the bottom of the barrel. You'll get all sorts of opinions on how thick a slurry should be and how to get there. Some might do nothing other than adding water, and some might suggest using some sort of thickener to help you develop a certain consistency of slurry that they believe is the optimum. At this stage in the game, I'd only suggest that you add grit and water. Learn what your tumbler will do for you and make any adjustments from there. If you check your barrels in a week or so, you'll find grey water. If there is grit that remains, that only means your tumbler is not efficiently breaking down grit and an adjustment should be made. Most often, if grit is not all gone, the grind did not roll long enough or the balance of smalls to large was not correct. So, at the end of the day, especially being new, it's my humble opinion that you stick with basics until you figure out what your tumbler will give you in terms of results. If you wind up with thin, grey, watery liquid in your barrel, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The biggest thing in my view is to look for totally broken down grit. When you open up your barrel, you don't want to see grit. If your grit is gone, then you're on the right track. At that point, slurry thickness has pretty much taken care of itself. Of course you can adjust down the road with different thickeners, but there's no sense in adding different variables for you this early in the game. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 24, 2019 6:16:55 GMT -5
I add clay from my back yard in step 1 for an instant slurry thickener and avoid starting with straight water. Some use kitty litter.
It can be added a tablespoon at a time until you get a thin milk shake consistency to help circulate the 60/90.
It should serve as a foam reducer too.
This is is what it looks like after 10 minutes after adding clay and silicon carbide 60 at start up:
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Feb 24, 2019 9:13:24 GMT -5
Welcome to the gang Mr. Meanie. The slurry should be thick enough to cover the rocks and not so thick that it gets gummy and slows down the tumbling process. Follow the recommended recipe for your tumbler and if the slurry seems too thick add a little water, if too thin add a little grit and ceramic media. There is not a magic answer to your slurry question. Checking your tumbler at various times will give you some idea as to how the tumbling process is moving along. I read a popular and well written tumbling book called Modern Rock Tumbling. It has some very good information about all aspects of the rock tumbling hobby using both rotary and vibratory tumblers. I use the recommended recipes with a tablespoon of Boras tossed in to increase adhesion and slickness with the slurry. So far the results have been satisfactory with agate and jasper. I'm now experimenting with beautiful colored granites. I have also picked up some great tips and information here on the Rock Tumbling Hobby website. The one thing I found very valuable in the book was that you have to be very very very patient when in stages 1 and 2 (the grinding stages) ignoring the 7 day recommendation of the tumbler instructions and letting the grinding continue until you are happy with the results. According to the information in the book about 90% of the grinding/shaping of the stones occurs in Stage 1 so it should take the longest of the stages with many weekly cleanouts and recharges of the stage 1 grit. About 5% of the grinding occurs in stage 2 with the rest of the polishing in Stage 3 & 4, the pre-polish and final polishing stages. In a rotary tumbler like my 15 lb. Thumler's Mod B this can take many weeks. This is a big rotary tumbler that really moves the rocks and media and it still takes many weeks of tumbling before I'm ready to move to the stage 2.. Good luck, keep looking and listening to your tumbler and rocks but be patient. I'm really looking forward to your posting pictures of your fabulous agates with dazzling mirror finishes. Where did you get the agates? I'm asking because they are rare around where I live on the Delaware Pennsylvania border. littleredstore.com/modern-rock-tumbling-ebook/ |
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Post by arghvark on Feb 24, 2019 14:41:28 GMT -5
Welcome, Meanie! Just to echo what the experts have said and to add a bit of emphasis specific to the 33B: 1. Don't worry. 2. As others have said, the 33B is small, and not as efficient in grinding as larger tumblers (I have a 33B and a QT66 to compare it to.) I typically let the 33B run two weeks at a time for stage 1, regardless of what is tumbling and the consistency of the slurry; it just doesn't seem to use grit faster than that. (Only exception is very soft material, which your agates aren't!) 3. I use less water than the Lortone instructions say. Seems to help a bit. 4. I do add clay, thanks to experiences shared by several folks here. Makes a big difference. The small tumbler definitely uses grit faster - I think it was jamesp who explained that the clay helps grit adhere to the rocks as they rub together, rather than being washed from between them with straight water. |
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meanie
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2019
Posts: 8
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Post by meanie on Feb 24, 2019 22:19:50 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for all the advice--I think part of my confusion is that the slurry looks so different than what the slurry looked like in my kids' 1 lb tumbler, which got quite thick. Does the brand of 60/90 make a difference? I just assumed it was all the same. Also, the lortone tumbles a bit slower than my kids' (it takes about two seconds for the 1 lb barrel to make a rotation on it versus three seconds to go around when I put that barrel on the lortone). After I posted this question, I decided to restart the bahia agate, this time not adding quite so much water, and also adding some ceramic media to it. Just checked it five minutes ago, and I can see some grit on the rocks, so hopefully it's going in the right direction. Also, unrelated question--does anyone ever use a dremel to smooth out pits, etc? Thanks so much! gatorflash1 I got my agates from therockshed.com--they give you a discount when you buy a tumbler (which I did), so I got way more rocks than I probably need. But I live in Mississippi, so there aren't a whole lot of interesting rocks near me. Once it gets warm though, my husband and I like to take the kids camping in Arkansas which does have some. |
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Post by aDave on Feb 24, 2019 22:44:56 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for all the advice--I think part of my confusion is that the slurry looks so different than what the slurry looked like in my kids' 1 lb tumbler, which got quite thick. Does the brand of 60/90 make a difference? I just assumed it was all the same. Also, the lortone tumbles a bit slower than my kids' (it takes about two seconds for the 1 lb barrel to make a rotation on it versus three seconds to go around when I put that barrel on the lortone). After I posted this question, I decided to restart the bahia agate, this time not adding quite so much water, and also adding some ceramic media to it. Just checked it five minutes ago, and I can see some grit on the rocks, so hopefully it's going in the right direction. Also, unrelated question--does anyone ever use a dremel to smooth out pits, etc? Thanks so much! gatorflash1 I got my agates from therockshed.com--they give you a discount when you buy a tumbler (which I did), so I got way more rocks than I probably need. But I live in Mississippi, so there aren't a whole lot of interesting rocks near me. Once it gets warm though, my husband and I like to take the kids camping in Arkansas which does have some. "Brand" of grit makes no difference. If you can discern a particular brand, I'd love to see it. My understanding is that there are few manufacturers that send out their stuff to different suppliers. Just tumble what you can get. Your particular tumbler should turn about 45 RPMs...plus or minus a couple rotations. You can use ceramic media if you like in the coarse stage, but I've always been of the opinion that I wouldn't waste grit on media in that stage...period. I'd never waste grit on material (ceramics) that I can't turn out down the road. Simply get rid of the ceramics and tumble "smalls" if need be. As far as a Dremel, lot's of time spent for little return. At a minimum, most folks will use a wet tile saw or wet grinder to remove imperfections. |
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Post by arghvark on Feb 25, 2019 8:14:55 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for all the advice--I think part of my confusion is that the slurry looks so different than what the slurry looked like in my kids' 1 lb tumbler, which got quite thick. Does the brand of 60/90 make a difference? I just assumed it was all the same. Also, the lortone tumbles a bit slower than my kids' (it takes about two seconds for the 1 lb barrel to make a rotation on it versus three seconds to go around when I put that barrel on the lortone). After I posted this question, I decided to restart the bahia agate, this time not adding quite so much water, and also adding some ceramic media to it. Just checked it five minutes ago, and I can see some grit on the rocks, so hopefully it's going in the right direction. Also, unrelated question--does anyone ever use a dremel to smooth out pits, etc? Thanks so much! gatorflash1 I got my agates from therockshed.com--they give you a discount when you buy a tumbler (which I did), so I got way more rocks than I probably need. But I live in Mississippi, so there aren't a whole lot of interesting rocks near me. Once it gets warm though, my husband and I like to take the kids camping in Arkansas which does have some. If the slurry you refer to with your 1lb tumbler was from rocks that were provided with it, it may be that there were some soft ones in it. This is often the case, and would have thickened the slurry more quickly. The rocks you are tumbling now are pretty hard, so the slurry will not thicken as quickly. You might be surprised at how this whole tumbling thing goes. Today it's "way more than I'll ever need", then magically one day it'll be "hey I need some more rocks!" Some folks do use a Dremel. fernwood and miket come to mind, there are probably more. They can probably tell you about their experiences. ETA: As aDave said no specific brands of grit, just stick with silicon carbide at least for the first 2 or 3 stages. It will work better for those than aluminum oxide, which is also out there. Argh |
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Post by miket on Feb 25, 2019 10:42:20 GMT -5
I haven't been tumbling that long, but the biggest thing I've tried to learn is patience. I'm a peeker, too.  I've been trying to read as much as I can here on RTH and take what I've read to experiment and see what works for me. I notice a huge difference in the slurry between my 33b and my qt66 and I really don't know what causes the difference. They both have the same material tumbling in them. As far as using a dremel goes, I've really only been using it recently to try and make cabs. I use a tile saw to shape sometimes, but since it's been so cold here I don't get on the saw as much as I would like so I've just been throwing rocks in as is. |
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 25, 2019 11:35:36 GMT -5
I run the small Lortone tumblers and fill to 3/4 full with material, add grit (2 TBLS per barrel),than water to the 3/4 level of the rocks...
Let roll for a couple weeks... I only check to make sure the lids stay tight, I never peek...
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Post by arghvark on Feb 25, 2019 13:39:57 GMT -5
I run the small Lortone tumblers and fill to 3/4 full with material, add grit (2 TBLS per barrel),than water to the 3/4 level of the rocks... Let roll for a couple weeks... I only check to make sure the lids stay tight, I never peek... I'm with you. Really, really _want_ to peek, but dislike the hassle of cleaning lid and lip to button everything back up. |
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Post by aDave on Feb 25, 2019 22:53:03 GMT -5
I'm with you. Really, really _want_ to peek, but dislike the hassle of cleaning lid and lip to button everything back up. And, I'm with you about looking. I don't do it all, and my stages in the rotary add about 6.5 weeks after rocks have been moved out of coarse. Yep, I'm pretty patient at this point...I feel no need to look at rocks until changeovers take place. |
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Post by miket on Feb 26, 2019 10:24:42 GMT -5
I'm with you. Really, really _want_ to peek, but dislike the hassle of cleaning lid and lip to button everything back up. And, I'm with you about looking. I don't do it all, and my stages in the rotary add about 6.5 weeks after rocks have been moved out of coarse. Yep, I'm pretty patient at this point...I feel no need to look at rocks until changeovers take place. I look because I have both barrels full on my qt66 of rocks in coarse, then use my 33b for all of the next stages. I pull the ones out that are ready and replace them with the next in line. Which is a long, long line |
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You'll probably get several good (and differing) suggestions in the next few days. My suggestion would be to let 'em roll uninterupped for 1 week minimum and see what happens. Personally, I go 2 weeks at a time. I would expect that in a week your slurry will be fine. I aim for pancake batter consistency. Sometimes I get thinner, sometimes stiffer. Unless there's a recurring problem I don't sweat small variations. As you proceed with your tumbling, pay attention to what the barrel sounds like as it rolls. You develop a knack for what sounds right or wrong and when opening the barrel early is warranted. Don't get me wrong - you can open the barrel every day if that is how you like to roll! 
