NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 13, 2019 18:47:02 GMT -5
Hello all. QT-12 owner here for 3 months running non-stop, but I think I should ask for help here.
I might be damaging the tumbler. But need to ask.
Hear me out please, as the details often matter in stuff like tumbling I have found. Thank you.
It was 1 month used when I got it. No dust, nothing. Barely used. But I oiled rollers and inspected everything before I ran it.
And the belt tension was just waaay too loose then. (It turns out, this was the way I received both of my new QT-6 units. Loose.). So, I tighten up the belt firm (not tight) like videos say to, and off we go.
Three months later the 12 lb. is chugging right along through 2/3 loads and 3/4 loads just fine.
<< PROBLEM >> 2 weeks ago, I hear this little squeeking, like a hamster on a treadmill, barely audible, but it is there. I know the sound. Like a belt on a car. OK, I'll service it.
1 week later I take it apart (yesterday) for its monthly oiling and inspection. The belt looks fine. But there is belt dust. A lot. I would say that there is probably 1/2 a teaspoon of dust in various places, and collecting at bottom of cover. Hmm.
Q) Is this common on a QT-12 or QT-66 running the heavy loads?
I don't want to burn out the little motor.
My QT-6 units are not making this noise, or making dust yet after a month or more .. And I set both of their belts to the same tension as this one.
<< PROBLEM >> Today I look at it, and it is squeeking again. So I take it apart.
I take the belt cover off, and then plug it back in so I can inspect it running. Only, for the first time ever, it does not start turning. I have to start it turning by hand. Now I am wondering.
Once it gets going, I spraw just a little bit of Prestone Belt Dressing on there, and the sound goes right away. Great.
I put it back together, and turn it on. Again, it doesn't go by itself.
OBSERVATIONS:
- It is not slipping - It is not smelling like a burnt motor - The motor is the same temperature as the 2 QT-6 units
Q) Should I give the little guy a day off? He has not had one in 3 months or more. Like 24/7.
Q) Is there some way of describing what tension the belt should be at?
Q) Wouldn't it be great if they put little grooves or teeth on the inside of the motor pulley, so it would grab, rather than slip? Probably not.
OK, not hitting the panic button, but I am buying these units 12, 6, 6, and another 6 on the way, so they are same diameter, and some day I can make one of those really cool bigger custom ones that a lot of you have already made. Some day. I just didn't expect to do it after 3-6 months. The little Lortone guys are so cute too.
Advice, comments, critisisms .. flaming. No problem, I am all ears.
Thank you in advance to anyone (especially with a long term 12 or 66 unit) who has ideas on this!
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Post by aDave on Mar 13, 2019 22:27:09 GMT -5
Not sure I'll be much help. I have a QT66 which has pretty much run non-stop for two years.
Every now and then a little squeak, but I ignored it. I stopped the rolling barrels with my hand to check belt tightness, as I wondered if there was some slipping going on. If the pulley's would have kept moving while I held the barrels still, I would have tightened. Since the pulley didn't move, I did nothing.
I have had belt dust inside the cover, but I seem to recall that was when a new belt was put on. I just figured that was due to a certain amount of intolerance in the machine and let it go. Seems not to be an issue now.
Once, and only once, my tumbler needed a push start with loaded barrels on it. That was probably one year ago.
If, however, you are continually having (startup) problems, perhaps the motor is getting tired. If it rolls at a proper RPM after starting (approx 31), then I wouldn't panic just yet. You just might want to get a new motor and have it on hand should the questionable motor give up.
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,426
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 13, 2019 23:04:36 GMT -5
I refurbished my QT-66 after 14 months of tumbling. I had never checked belt tension so it was as the factory sent it. There was about a teaspoon of black dust in there. Cleaned it up and tightened the belt and due for another refurbishment after 14 more months. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/82835/refurbished-lortone-qt66
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kskid
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Post by kskid on Mar 14, 2019 0:34:08 GMT -5
No pro here, NevadaBill. But your post made me laugh - this is how I learned the difference between preventive maintenance and tinkering. I routinely oil the bearings & motor, look closely, and listen intently as my QT 6 & 12 run (preventive). I once tightened the belt on my new QT 6 because i thought it looked loose. It wasn't giving me any problems & I didn't know what the spec. tension should be (tinkering). Then I worried that I was going to burn up the motor, ruin the motor bearings, melt the belt, wear out the belt, break the belt, or wear out the shaft bearings, all hazards of which my tinkering had created. Finally, I loosened it back a bit - probably just as it was before. It ran flawlessly, non-stop for over three more years and was going strong when Santa brought me a new QT 12. I am determined to resist the urge to mess with my QT 12 if it isn't giving any indication of being broken. A loose belt will eventually reduce performance and cause one or two obvious, but relatively minor inconveniences. A too tight belt will cause more numerous, more urgent, more critical, and more expensive issues. My suggestion is if you love tinkering then by all means tinker to your heart's content. But it since it appears to be affecting you the same way it affected me, I would put it back the way it was until it gives some indication that something is out of whack and then respond appropriately. FWIW, my tumbler belt looked ridiculously loose compared to the car, truck, and tractor belts I was used to seeing. I could see the belt arc upward between the pulleys. I didn't think to scale down the load and RPM's to those of my tiny little tumbler. Tension is not nearly as tight at such a small scale. This may not be technically helpful, but at least you know you aren't alone. Congrats on your new machines!
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 14, 2019 9:29:36 GMT -5
Not sure I'll be much help. I have a QT66 which has pretty much run non-stop for two years. Every now and then a little squeak, but I ignored it. I stopped the rolling barrels with my hand to check belt tightness, as I wondered if there was some slipping going on. If the pulley's would have kept moving while I held the barrels still, I would have tightened. Since the pulley didn't move, I did nothing. I have had belt dust inside the cover, but I seem to recall that was when a new belt was put on. I just figured that was due to a certain amount of intolerance in the machine and let it go. Seems not to be an issue now. Once, and only once, my tumbler needed a push start with loaded barrels on it. That was probably one year ago. If, however, you are continually having (startup) problems, perhaps the motor is getting tired. If it rolls at a proper RPM after starting (approx 31), then I wouldn't panic just yet. You just might want to get a new motor and have it on hand should the questionable motor give up. That seems like a good method to check tightness; stopping it by hand to see if there is slippage. I'll try that. Interesting you mention belt dust. You would think this would be common with QT12 /66 owners. I'll wait for more feedback. I've read about others having to push start their barrel (other online). I have another backup motor already. Randy gave me one for free. So, luckily I have that. Thanks Dave.
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NevadaBill
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 14, 2019 9:34:32 GMT -5
I refurbished my QT-66 after 14 months of tumbling. I had never checked belt tension so it was as the factory sent it. There was about a teaspoon of black dust in there. Cleaned it up and tightened the belt and due for another refurbishment after 14 more months. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/82835/refurbished-lortone-qt66Thanks for the link Woofer. I need any information I can get, and didn't really search at all yesterday. There is probably more here. Interesting that people leave the barrel on the factory tension. That seems loose to me, and almost as if it would start slipping from day one. On the other hand, they also say not to over tighten the belt, or drive motor damage will occur.
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 14, 2019 9:46:54 GMT -5
No pro here, NevadaBill . But your post made me laugh - this is how I learned the difference between preventive maintenance and tinkering. I routinely oil the bearings & motor, look closely, and listen intently as my QT 6 & 12 run (preventive). I once tightened the belt on my new QT 6 because i thought it looked loose. It wasn't giving me any problems & I didn't know what the spec. tension should be (tinkering). Then I worried that I was going to burn up the motor, ruin the motor bearings, melt the belt, wear out the belt, break the belt, or wear out the shaft bearings, all hazards of which my tinkering had created. Finally, I loosened it back a bit - probably just as it was before. It ran flawlessly, non-stop for over three more years and was going strong when Santa brought me a new QT 12. I am determined to resist the urge to mess with my QT 12 if it isn't giving any indication of being broken. A loose belt will eventually reduce performance and cause one or two obvious, but relatively minor inconveniences. A too tight belt will cause more numerous, more urgent, more critical, and more expensive issues. My suggestion is if you love tinkering then by all means tinker to your heart's content. But it since it appears to be affecting you the same way it affected me, I would put it back the way it was until it gives some indication that something is out of whack and then respond appropriately. FWIW, my tumbler belt looked ridiculously loose compared to the car, truck, and tractor belts I was used to seeing. I could see the belt arc upward between the pulleys. I didn't think to scale down the load and RPM's to those of my tiny little tumbler. Tension is not nearly as tight at such a small scale. This may not be technically helpful, but at least you know you aren't alone. Congrats on your new machines! This is some really great feedback. Hmm. I've started two topics with "Ask the Pro's". I thought it sounded kind of official. But I realize how it could be interpreted. Maybe I am scaring people off inadvertently because they don't want to be seen as Pro's, such as "ye oldest profession in the world ..."? I'd laugh at that too. That aside, I was hoping to get some great feedback like yours here. I am a technical, mechanical and critical thinker. So I am always messing with everything. It is no wonder I haven't fully taken one of these apart yet just to see how it ticks. But it seems straight forward to me. I am treating the belts like an other belt driven accessory, I think. I am in agreement with you that the belts on all 3 units looked way too loose when I received them. Compared to other belt driven applications (grinders, autos, even old lathes, presses and machine works). Perhaps it is smart to reset them all back to the slackness they had when they first arrived. I have a new (4th) one coming, and so it will be easy to see, and do with the other 3 I already own. I appreciate the time you spent explaining your experience here.
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NevadaBill
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 14, 2019 10:20:58 GMT -5
I am adding this, because it was mentioned in Wooferhound thread topic he referenced, about the motor on the Lortone units. " ... Also added a couple of drops of oil into the 2 lubrication holes on each end of the motor." " ... The oil holes are on each end of the motor. Not on top but part of the way down the side. A couple of V notches with a small tube leading down to the motor bearings. Had to look close, almost missed them.
" I was also not aware of these oil holes on the motor. But I think it is worth mentioning to anyone who stumbles upon this topic. Thank you
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Post by aDave on Mar 14, 2019 13:27:35 GMT -5
I am adding this, because it was mentioned in Wooferhound thread topic he referenced, about the motor on the Lortone units. " ... Also added a couple of drops of oil into the 2 lubrication holes on each end of the motor." " ... The oil holes are on each end of the motor. Not on top but part of the way down the side. A couple of V notches with a small tube leading down to the motor bearings. Had to look close, almost missed them.
" I was also not aware of these oil holes on the motor. But I think it is worth mentioning to anyone who stumbles upon this topic. Thank you Seeing this referenced again, I decided to place a call to Lortone to inquire about the oiling ports (as they were described above). My interest was piqued, as the manual for the QT series of tumblers specifically mentions under maintenance for the motor (page 5): " The motor is designed for continuous use and does not need oiling or other maintenance. It is normal for the motor to run hot to the touch."This above statement runs in contrast with the instructions for a similarly styled motor that Thumlers uses. Instructions found on this vendor's website indicates that the motor should be oiled monthly. Even though we're dealing with two different motors, and shafts and bearing could be different, that is seemingly quite a disparity. So, how did the call go with Lortone? Initially, the woman who answered the phone confirmed the statement in the manual. Oiling is not needed. However, she did add that a user may place a drop in the (triangular shaped) holes should a user desire. Specifically, she stated that oil could be added if some squeaking developed from the motor itself. But, she did not advocate oiling monthly like Thumlers does, simply due to buildup and dirt attraction causing more issues. At the end of the day, is this simply a case of "planned obsolescense" by Lortone? Don't know. On one hand, it seems to fly in face of common sense to NOT recommend oil, but who knows? I'm not here to advocate one way or another. All I know is I have not oiled my motor for what has been over two years of continuous 24/7 use. Just thought I'd pass this along.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,426
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 14, 2019 15:45:40 GMT -5
I recommend putting a couple of drops of oil in the motor once a year. Could too much oil hurt it ?
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Post by aDave on Mar 14, 2019 17:28:33 GMT -5
I recommend putting a couple of drops of oil in the motor once a year. Could too much oil hurt it ? Too much oil? I think that could cause an issue with gunk buildup and trapped dirt. However, if I was to oil, I would go with your oiling frequency - annually. :thumbsup
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 15, 2019 8:56:31 GMT -5
"...Specifically, she stated that oil could be added if some squeaking developed from the motor itself. But, she did not advocate oiling monthly like Thumlers does, simply due to buildup and dirt attraction causing more issues."
Wow, I didn't think to make the call to Lortone. Good work Dave! The manual is not that specific, is it.
Well, I imagine that I will add this to my list of things to do annually (if the motors last that long).
Thank you for sharing this with all of us.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 15, 2019 17:11:17 GMT -5
I run three QT-12's most the time and have not had much trouble. (Hope I didn't just jinx myself) I replace the belts periodically regardless of their appearance because a belt can be worn out but still look OK to the casual observer. I don't oil the motors because of the way it attracts dirt. I feel it's preferable to have the belt on the loose side more than too tight. I try to keep a couple spare belts and a motor on hand for the inevitable.
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Post by Starguy on Mar 16, 2019 7:15:48 GMT -5
The only time I have had to hand start the barrel of my qt12 was when the outside of the barrel was dirty. A good scrub with a clean cloth fixed it.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 16, 2019 10:31:28 GMT -5
The only time I have had to hand start the barrel of my qt12 was when the outside of the barrel was dirty. A good scrub with a clean cloth fixed it. I have experienced this also.
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salpal48
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2015
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Post by salpal48 on Mar 17, 2019 14:04:33 GMT -5
I would suggest that you check the alinement of the belt between the large shaft pully and the small motor pulley. they will make Noise and have dust If not Sal
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NevadaBill
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 18, 2019 10:46:46 GMT -5
I loosened the belt back up to the way I found it originally. I also loosened the other rotaries back up too.
While it looks more loose than what I am comfortable it being set at, this has not negatively effected performance since. The QT-12 does not make any belt noises either.
Oddly, since I hand started it that once, it has not needed a push start since. And I have shut the power strip which it is attached to, off a few times this week servicing it and other rotaries. So it has done half a dozen start / stops on its own now.
Thanks everyone for helping me out with these issues.
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NevadaBill
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Post by NevadaBill on Mar 18, 2019 10:48:30 GMT -5
I would suggest that you check the alinement of the belt between the large shaft pully and the small motor pulley. they will make Noise and have dust If not Sal I will absolutely check this today Sal. Thank you for mentioning it as a possible problem as well!
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Post by arghvark on Mar 20, 2019 21:02:01 GMT -5
I'm not a "pro" either. I do have a 33B and a QT66 which have been running continuously for about 2 years as well. To me the belt should only be tight enough that there is no slippage, easy to detect by checking rotation speed from time to time. I don't think Lortone is a "planned obsolescence" kind of company. They've been around a long time, they keep parts available, they make few design changes, and their machines have a great reputation for reliability. I've always placed barrels on a running machine, partly because with 2-barrel machines, I'm only taking one off at a time to do cleanouts. Also, perhaps erroneously, I've always thought that starting then placing wold put less load on the motor than starting a machine with 2 loaded barrels on it. Finally, perhaps misremembering, but thought the Lortone manual said to start then place barrels? Argh
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