jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 24, 2019 23:15:43 GMT -5
I don't know if others do this, but I tend to work on several cabs at any one time and rarely take one from start to finish in one sitting. I blame the discovery of the dop stick that holds screws, and the forest of stainless steel saplings I've created. Too many to choose from distracting me...or maybe ADD. Finished the fronts of a few that I've been working on here and there for a while and thought I'd put them up, and ask a few questions of the pros. Spent a little more time on photos today, but it's still a big challenge to get good shots for a whole host of reasons. I guess I'm just going to need to sit down and set up a little area and tweak until I can get lighting, backgrounds, etc. working with consistent results. Then, of course, each stone is different...getting photos of obsidian is killing me, at least good visibility of features. I've only done two Royal Sahara cabs. They both ended up with a glassy polish but developed these little white micro-pits. They show up even more in pictures, and I've seen it on others when browsing around sites. Is that normal for the material, or does it just still need more polish and then they go away? They're not scratches, just tiny pits.  RoyalSahara by Kevin, on Flickr  Montana by Kevin, on Flickr  Montana2 by Kevin, on Flickr This sonora sunrise took a glossy polish, but it has a bit of an orange peel / waxy quality. Is that normal for this stuff? Is the orange peel-ness from undercutting? Can it be avoided?  IMG_0813 by Kevin, on Flickr  Blackskin by Kevin, on Flickr  Blackskin2 by Kevin, on Flickr  Brazilian by Kevin, on Flickr  Brazilian2 by Kevin, on Flickr This maury moss agate was interesting. I've run in to this in other moss/plume like agates that are "in progress", and one I've finished. The moss gets exposed and causes some sizeable pits. Is that just the nature of working with those types of stones? I don't see how it can be avoided as it seems some will always exposed as you polish down, especially if there is a lot of moss. Any suggestions?  Maury by Kevin, on Flickr The picture of this stone doesn't even come close to showing how cool it is. There are multiple lairs, with plumes and eyes, floating in clear agate. There was a really cool wisp of clouds on the right, but much of it was lost as I was polishing. This was just an odd little patch in a slab of flame agate. A cool surprise.  IMG_0835 by Kevin, on Flickr Clearly, I need a lint-free cloth to wipe them down.  I couldn't figure out how to show the two little layer patches in this obsidian in a posed picture, so had to hold it to the light. I love this stuff, though at times it's frustrating. It has an awesome translucency - can't wait to see it when the back is done.  IMG_0843 by Kevin, on Flickr  IMG_0845 by Kevin, on Flickr |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 2:57:49 GMT -5
I've only done two Royal Sahara cabs, but they both ended up with a glassy polish but these little white micro-pits. They show up even more in pictures, and I've seen it on others when browsing around sites. Is that normal for the material, or does it just still need more polish and then they go away? They're not scratches, just tiny pits. Some VERY nice cabs you've done there! That's been my observation for most of the Royal Sahara I've had over the years. The pits are quite common, and seem to pop up in the most inconvenient places (right in the middle of the nicest landscapes). Some seem to get lucky (or apply filler), because I've seen some without, just not my experience. I've also had undercutting, though that can be minimized just as for other mixed-hardness stones. Sometimes the "white" in the pits is actually hardened polish, so you might try teasing it out with dishwashing soap and a pin to minimize how apparent it is. Love the cab with the bubbly floating eyes. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 25, 2019 7:31:07 GMT -5
Very choice cabs you got there! The Brazilian and obsid are esp nice with your composition. Great job on the obsid polish!
Yes, on the RSJ pitting, although I have have some that did not.
The Sonora looks real nice. Yes, the orange peel is due to micro undercutting. I have had very few without it. I generally get a real good polish, but a lot of people claim you can't polish it. Yours is further proof that you can.
On the moss- yes, when the moss breaks the surface, it looks pitted. I find that it can seldom be avoided. For really choice pieces maybe you can try using hxtal. I haven't yet for moss, but the thought does occur to me.
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adrian65
Cave Dweller 
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on Mar 25, 2019 8:40:15 GMT -5
Astonishing cabs! As for your problems, I know the moss-related issues but don't know how to fix it. The Sonora is rather soft as far as I know, so the wax polish might be all you can get. This is the reason I stick to solid, hard stones.
Adrian
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wpotterw
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2016
Posts: 447 
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Post by wpotterw on Mar 25, 2019 9:52:48 GMT -5
I don't know if others do this, but I tend to work on several cabs at any one time and rarely take one from start to finish in one sitting. I blame the discovery of the dop stick that holds screws, and the forest of stainless steel saplings I've created. Too many to choose from distracting me...or maybe ADD. Finished the fronts of a few that I've been working on here and there for a while and thought I'd put them up, and ask a few questions of the pros. Spent a little more time on photos today, but it's still a big challenge to get good shots for a whole host of reasons. I guess I'm just going to need to sit down and set up a little area and tweak until I can get lighting, backgrounds, etc. working with consistent results. Then, of course, each stone is different...getting photos of obsidian is killing me, at least good visibility of features. I've only done two Royal Sahara cabs. They both ended up with a glassy polish but developed these little white micro-pits. They show up even more in pictures, and I've seen it on others when browsing around sites. Is that normal for the material, or does it just still need more polish and then they go away? They're not scratches, just tiny pits. RoyalSahara by Kevin, on Flickr Montana by Kevin, on Flickr Montana2 by Kevin, on Flickr This sonora sunrise took a glossy polish, but it has a bit of an orange peel / waxy quality. Is that normal for this stuff? Is the orange peel-ness from undercutting? Can it be avoided? IMG_0813 by Kevin, on Flickr Blackskin by Kevin, on Flickr Blackskin2 by Kevin, on Flickr Brazilian by Kevin, on Flickr Brazilian2 by Kevin, on Flickr This maury moss agate was interesting. I've run in to this in other moss/plume like agates that are "in progress", and one I've finished. The moss gets exposed and causes some sizeable pits. Is that just the nature of working with those types of stones? I don't see how it can be avoided as it seems some will always exposed as you polish down, especially if there is a lot of moss. Any suggestions? Maury by Kevin, on Flickr The picture of this stone doesn't even come close to showing how cool it is. There are multiple lairs, with plumes and eyes, floating in clear agate. There was a really cool wisp of clouds on the right, but much of it was lost as I was polishing. This was just an odd little patch in a slab of flame agate. A cool surprise. IMG_0835 by Kevin, on Flickr Clearly, I need a lint-free cloth to wipe them down. I couldn't figure out how to show the two little lair patches in this obsidian in a posed picture, so had to hold it to the light. I love this stuff, though at times it's frustrating. It has an awesome translucency - can't wait to see it when the back is done. IMG_0843 by Kevin, on Flickr IMG_0845 by Kevin, on Flickr I have had some Royal Sahara that was somewhat coarse-grained and had pitting like that throughout. Same issues as you with Sonora Sunrise as well. All of mine have a decent shine, but I never seem to get to a mirror shine like a good jasper. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 25, 2019 9:56:45 GMT -5
Some awesome cabs you cut. I especially love the Montana and the Brazilian. The composition of those two are stunning!
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,993
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Post by Tommy on Mar 25, 2019 10:36:56 GMT -5
Holy smokes Kevin, your material choices and craftsmanship are off the charts beautiful. It's hard to pick a favorite piece especially between the mountain top scene in the Montana with the treetop breaking through the clouds - or the composition pattern capture on the Brazilian ... gorgeous. I like your "steel saplings" description - your words paint a great mental picture. I too was a dopaholic ... I was having so much fun with the process of planning, shaping, and dopping that it became THE thing and finishing became the chore. Consequently my "stone wild flowers" got out of control and eventually I had to take a hard look at how much time I was wasting - probably 50% of the pieces I would start on would never get finished and would eventually get taken off the dop and tossed in a jar. I eventually broke the addiction by going freehand and forcing myself to work on one cab at a time until it is either done or broken  Royal Sahara = royal pain for me. I've worked with it probably three times and it ended in disappointing pits in the surface each time. I've seen display specimens for sale at shows polished to perfection with no pits but I'm thinking those are the exception, not the rule. I second rockjunquie sentiment on the Sonora and I lump myself into the "can't polish it" category. I have given up and actively avoid it now lol. |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,993
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Post by Tommy on Mar 25, 2019 10:47:48 GMT -5
Another quick note about the plume and moss agates undercutting - yes the plumes will almost always reach the surface and show some 'texture' where they do. Some materials are more prone to actual undercutting than others. I don't really have a cure for it but I do try to employ a little technique where I try to spend as little time on the grit wheels where the undercutting is occurring.
Ie: we know that on the grinding wheel while shaping, the wheel is removing agate and plumes at the same rate. We also know that on the higher polishing grits (3000+?) the wheel is not removing agate or plumes anymore. This obviously means that somewhere in between those two points is a grit number where agate has stopped being removed but the softer plumes are still being removed. What I try to do is as I said above - not spend a huge amount of time on the grit where undercutting is the worst - where the wheel has stopped removing agate but is still removing plumes or moss at the surface. Doing this often means that I will make a quicker jump than I would normally like to make - maybe from 280 up to 1200 or 3000 but the result will be that a lot more time has to be spent on the higher grit (often going back and forth between low and high grit) until every scratch is gone.
Hope this helps a little bit. Gorgeous work you are doing.
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Post by 1dave on Mar 25, 2019 12:16:37 GMT -5
Another quick note about the plume and moss agates undercutting - yes the plumes will almost always reach the surface and show some 'texture' where they do. Some materials are more prone to actual undercutting than others. I don't really have a cure for it but I do try to employ a little technique where I try to spend as little time on the grit wheels where the undercutting is occurring. Ie: we know that on the grinding wheel while shaping, the wheel is removing agate and plumes at the same rate. We also know that on the higher polishing grits (3000+?) the wheel is not removing agate or plumes anymore. This obviously means that somewhere in between those two points is a grit number where agate has stopped being removed but the softer plumes are still being removed. What I try to do is as I said above - not spend a huge amount of time on the grit where undercutting is the worst - where the wheel has stopped removing agate but is still removing plumes or moss at the surface. Doing this often means that I will make a quicker jump than I would normally like to make - maybe from 280 up to 1200 or 3000 but the result will be that a lot more time has to be spent on the higher grit (often going back and forth between low and high grit) until every scratch is gone. Hope this helps a little bit. Gorgeous work you are doing. Masterful Advice!   |
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,993
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Post by Tommy on Mar 25, 2019 13:27:57 GMT -5
 did I level up?  |
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 25, 2019 15:28:23 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the kind words!
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 25, 2019 15:37:07 GMT -5
Another quick note about the plume and moss agates undercutting - yes the plumes will almost always reach the surface and show some 'texture' where they do. Some materials are more prone to actual undercutting than others. I don't really have a cure for it but I do try to employ a little technique where I try to spend as little time on the grit wheels where the undercutting is occurring. Ie: we know that on the grinding wheel while shaping, the wheel is removing agate and plumes at the same rate. We also know that on the higher polishing grits (3000+?) the wheel is not removing agate or plumes anymore. This obviously means that somewhere in between those two points is a grit number where agate has stopped being removed but the softer plumes are still being removed. What I try to do is as I said above - not spend a huge amount of time on the grit where undercutting is the worst - where the wheel has stopped removing agate but is still removing plumes or moss at the surface. Doing this often means that I will make a quicker jump than I would normally like to make - maybe from 280 up to 1200 or 3000 but the result will be that a lot more time has to be spent on the higher grit (often going back and forth between low and high grit) until every scratch is gone. Hope this helps a little bit. Gorgeous work you are doing. I agree with everything you've said here, and know exactly where that Maury cab went south on me. I didn't even want to post the pic up because it's headed for the garbage pile but included it for the conversation. It's sad because early in the process it was looking awesome - I hate it when that happens! I thought about Tela's suggestion on the Hxtal, which I think is a good option if it's one of those stones that you know is going to be awesome the minute you sketch it out on the slab...this wasn't one of those. Think I'll practice on moss/plume end cuts and slab scrap before I invest in completing another one of those. I loved your rock wildflower reference as well. I almost had a similar garden as I was going to drill a bunch of holes in a sheet of plastic so I could store them like that, but then laziness took over and I opted for the stainless steel sapling farm Thanks for all your input! I just want to get good at this and input, both good and bad, is the only way to measure progress. |
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 25, 2019 17:34:12 GMT -5
Fantastic cabs. Some very unusual ones.
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mgrets
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2011
Posts: 321
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Post by mgrets on Mar 25, 2019 20:17:04 GMT -5
Beautiful material and great cabs! Love that Montana!
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Post by socalagatehound on Mar 26, 2019 23:24:33 GMT -5
Nice work!!! Love them all.
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pocketfullarocks
having dreams about rocks
I love being a rock and mineral nerd!
Member since March 2019
Posts: 60
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Post by pocketfullarocks on Mar 27, 2019 20:01:13 GMT -5
That Montana takes my breath away! Like a mountainside shrouded in a cloud. And I have never seen a Braziian with so much going on in it! Such beauties!
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I couldn't figure out how to show the two little layer patches in this obsidian in a posed picture, so had to hold it to the light. I love this stuff, though at times it's frustrating. It has an awesome translucency - can't wait to see it when the back is done.
did I level up?
