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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 12:47:58 GMT -5
I would like to buy a smaller slab saw. I'm retired now and have less discretionary income. I plan on selling slabs and cabs on etsy. I can give it a try since the fees are nominal. I am familiar with what is involved. The next hurdle is pricing. I need to take a different approach than time, materials, shipping and selling costs. When I buy and sell on ebay, I look for comps in sold items. If etsy shows price for sold items, please let me know. I spent some time the last few days looking for items similar to what I would offer. From a time and materials standpoint prices are too low and from what is being offered are unrealistically high so there isn't much guidance regarding pricing. I have discussed the issue of the destructive cost of cabbing. Will the slab sell for more than the cab. As an etsy experiment I am going to offer the single cab slab below on etsy for $50. It is more likely to be priced too high than too low. If it doesn't sell, I'll cab it and if the cab doesn't sell for as much, I get the enjoyment of cabbing it unless it fractures. I checked ebay and etsy for comps, but what is being offered doesn't look like old stock Howardite with the snakeskin pattern
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 7, 2019 13:21:14 GMT -5
Heh. Rough rock, slabs, and used equipment are where the money is. Just ask Tony... .
I sold an old-stock Howardite cab like that at our show 2 years ago for $50. Probably had it out for sale for five years before that. Cabs have to wait for the right buyer to see them. Many more prospective buyers for a piece of rough or a slab.
Good luck - but more importantly, have fun!
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Post by fernwood on Apr 7, 2019 13:44:05 GMT -5
I am speaking as someone with minimal money. Cannot afford Etsy. Way too much competition. Many there are offering low quality otems for huge prices. Hard to go through all the key word listing to find the quality items. Had an online store on another site, but it went out of business after 5 years. I am currently having some items at local consignment shops, have a Facebook Page, attend art shows and have a recent membership listing with Something Special from Wisconsin, which promotes Wisconsin producers, raisers, manufacturers and artists. Just wondering what the slab is, as it appears blurry on my computer. Will refrain on pricing advice until I find out what it is. I have over 250 similar sized slabs I have purchased. Some appear to be of similar quality/availability.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 14:00:40 GMT -5
It is old stock Howardite. This picture is a little fuzzy with the wrong background. I cut the first 3 l-r, 4th is silverhawk and 5th is topgems.
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Apr 7, 2019 14:00:46 GMT -5
Will the slab sell for more than the cab. From my vantage point as an established cabochon seller on Etsy the answer to your question should be absolutely not. When I look at slabs in person I'm doing a mental calculation - I call it the thumb test - I cover each cabothumb size area and count how many cabs I feel the slab will yield and how much I think they will sell for based on comps or direct experience and if the cabs sold isn't at the very minimum double the cost of the slab then I won't even consider buying it. More often than that I'm looking to see if ONE cabothumb will cover the cost of the slab because I know my attention span and I rarely make three or four cabs of the same material unless I'm feeling pressure to make back the cost of the slab - so I typically will not put myself in that position. Doesn't mean this will always be the answer - if you're selling a polished specimen slab of a rare material to a collector of said material then yes but I would argue that 90% of the slabs being sold today do not meet that criteria. Some may debate me on this but in my experience the least profitable is always rough rock. If it's a decent material then value is added by slabbing and selling individual slabs, followed exponentially by the value added by converting slabs into cabochons. Finished jewelry completes the value-added journey. In a very realistic scenario, if I bought a 10lb rock for $100 and cut eight slabs from it that each yield five cabochons that sell in the $30 range I have converted my $100 purchase into $1200. If a metalsmith took all forty cabochons and made pendants that sell in the $100 range your $100 rock has been made into $4000 not yet factoring in the cost of the silver of course. Edited: I fixed my math in the realistic scenario
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Apr 7, 2019 14:07:50 GMT -5
I checked ebay and etsy for comps, but what is being offered doesn't look like old stock Howardite with the snakeskin pattern What is being offered as Howardite today is NOT the original Howardite - it's allegedly from the same location-ish as the original Howardite and so the claim owner has elected to call it Howardite. In my humble opinion and hoping not to offend anyone but I think the new Howardite flooding the market is on the ugly side compared to the original rattlesnake material - I think it looks a lot more condensed pattern like the Royal Flamingo that hit a couple of years ago from the same region.
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Apr 7, 2019 14:23:57 GMT -5
As an etsy experiment I am going to offer the single cab slab below on etsy for $50. One more reply if I can. I'm sorry for the verbal diarrhea but it was too much in my brain to condense into one post. In your above scenario, offering that exact piece for $50 would give me pause and probably a twinge of remorse but I would move on for the following reasons. I have sold exactly ONE cabochon of Howardite on Etsy in May of 2016 and it sold very quickly for over $100 However, the reasons I would pass on your offering are #1 I can't hold it in my hands and see if I think it's going to break and $50 is a lot on a single cabochon yield offering that I can't judge in person. Reason #2 is the influx of the new material being called Howardite can only have a detrimental effect on the value of old collection Howardite. Knowledgeable folks can tell the difference but we're talking about the Etsy audience not knowing old from new unless you put a paragraph in your listing educating folks and basically disparaging the new stuff on the market. To that I say no thanks - maybe if the price were better ($25?) and I had time to make a beautiful cabochon that didn't break and let it sit at the old collection price for a long time until the right person who knew it was old school material came along. I hope my posts have added value to the conversation for you. I'm open for healthy debate on every point I made.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 14:41:10 GMT -5
I agree with what you are saying, including the should part. When I consider what I am willing to pay for a slab, I consider how many good scenes, I see in a slab. The number of cabs that could be cut isn't as important. The number of scenes is impacted by flaws like fractures and pitting. I divide material into two categories; scenes and wallpaper. Dino bone is wallpaper and I don't mean that in a negative sense. The quality and color is what is important. Material with poppies like OJ and Morgan Hill; need to have a design and the scenes need to be found before cutting. For the Howardite slab, there is enough area for 2-3 cabs. So my value is for one cab. Someone else might see 2-3.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 14:57:46 GMT -5
Tommy, thank you for your input. Maybe, I am going about this backward. The leftmost cab has a terrible picture but it is very attractive and I am satisfied with my workmanship. I should probably offer it first with a good picture and see how it does. The slab I pictured is very solid, 3/8 inch thick with a lumpy back. If the cab sells, It would make sense for me to make and sell a cab from the slab.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 7, 2019 14:58:59 GMT -5
I don't have a big saw. I live on the east coast. I don't buy rough. I buy slabs. I would NEVER pay 50 for that slab. It may be possible to get one 100.00 cab out of it, but I don't know that. Like Tommy says, I can't see it or feel it, so it is an expensive risk at that price. Now... I have been known to take plenty of risks on ebay, but I'm really batting close to 95% there because I know what I'm looking at. I'm a very educated consumer. I AM YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE. In the last week, I have spent over 500 on slabs! I WILL and DO plop down good money for good slabs. There are A LOT of people like me. Just watch some slab auctions of nice material. Holy COW! They go high. Here's one I was watching and lost- too high for a 4x2 slab. www.ebay.com/itm/Mw-Petrified-Wood-PALM-ROOT-Rough-Slab-California-Tight-Eyes-/333136195600 Here's one I'm watching for grins and giggles. www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Paleo-Osmunda-Slice-Petrified-Fern-fr-Australia-210-grams/382885866075So, I'm saying sell slabs on ebay. There is a market for good stuff. There's a lot of high end cabbers looking for high end, rare, unusual stuff. From what I have read from you, it sounds like you have a lot of issues with cabbing. Let someone else cab your good stuff and take it to the bank. Seriously, good material- small slabs, too- go high and you are claiming to have the good stuff. Post a few examples here of what you have for slabs and get some input as to value. I have some slabs I bought as little as 5 years ago that have already more than doubled in price. You might have some really valuable slabs. And that was my 2 cents.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 7, 2019 15:00:36 GMT -5
BTW- Topgems is my favorite cabber on ebay.
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Post by fernwood on Apr 7, 2019 15:32:12 GMT -5
Tommy and Tela are the cab and purchasing experts here. They have an eye for the good stuff and an transform it. Paul also makes excellent cabs. Sorry, if I forgot anyone else, but those were the three that came to mind quickly.
Tommy and Tela made some excellent points.
Why not try listing some slabs here as a test? See what they bring. You could always do an auction with a minimum start amount.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 15:36:00 GMT -5
Here are 3 Morrisonite slabs that I am reluctant to cut. Estimating value is easier because I can see sold items on ebay. Probably in the $20-$50 range. The one on the right is 3x2 inches. I have a lot of cabs where I think the workmanship is fine and many where I am not satisfied.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 7, 2019 15:45:43 GMT -5
If I saw one for 25, I'd pinch myself AFTER I hit BUY. LOL! Those are nice. That's the kind of thing you should leave up to auction. Set a high but realistic minimum and see where it goes. I guess you could open with a reserve, too, but those auctions don't do too well as far as I can see. You could also open at 25 and have buy it now at 50 or something like that. You could even have make an offer for those that don't want to wait out an auction or think they can grab a deal. Lots of ways to do it.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 7, 2019 19:13:07 GMT -5
I don't have a big saw. I live on the east coast. I don't buy rough. I buy slabs. I would NEVER pay 50 for that slab. It may be possible to get one 100.00 cab out of it, but I don't know that. Like Tommy says, I can't see it or feel it, so it is an expensive risk at that price. Now... I have been known to take plenty of risks on ebay, but I'm really batting close to 95% there because I know what I'm looking at. I'm a very educated consumer. I AM YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE. In the last week, I have spent over 500 on slabs! I WILL and DO plop down good money for good slabs. There are A LOT of people like me. Just watch some slab auctions of nice material. Holy COW! They go high. Here's one I was watching and lost- too high for a 4x2 slab. www.ebay.com/itm/Mw-Petrified-Wood-PALM-ROOT-Rough-Slab-California-Tight-Eyes-/333136195600 Here's one I'm watching for grins and giggles. www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Paleo-Osmunda-Slice-Petrified-Fern-fr-Australia-210-grams/382885866075
A lot of the pet palm root to be found here. I have found it at shows, and in the wild. Indian Pass has some, maybe not quite as contrasty, some at Kramer Junction. But that is a pretty nice one.
Now that osmunda fern from AU is wild! $110, and five more days to go, yikes!
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 7, 2019 19:29:06 GMT -5
I don't have a big saw. I live on the east coast. I don't buy rough. I buy slabs. I would NEVER pay 50 for that slab. It may be possible to get one 100.00 cab out of it, but I don't know that. Like Tommy says, I can't see it or feel it, so it is an expensive risk at that price. Now... I have been known to take plenty of risks on ebay, but I'm really batting close to 95% there because I know what I'm looking at. I'm a very educated consumer. I AM YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE. In the last week, I have spent over 500 on slabs! I WILL and DO plop down good money for good slabs. There are A LOT of people like me. Just watch some slab auctions of nice material. Holy COW! They go high. Here's one I was watching and lost- too high for a 4x2 slab. www.ebay.com/itm/Mw-Petrified-Wood-PALM-ROOT-Rough-Slab-California-Tight-Eyes-/333136195600 Here's one I'm watching for grins and giggles. www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Paleo-Osmunda-Slice-Petrified-Fern-fr-Australia-210-grams/382885866075
A lot of the pet palm root to be found here. I have found it at shows, and in the wild. Indian Pass has some, maybe not quite as contrasty, some at Kramer Junction. But that is a pretty nice one.
Now that osmunda fern from AU is wild! $110, and five more days to go, yikes!
I haven't seen any with that kind of color and contrast. I had a nice slab once, but not nearly as nice. I live in the wrong coast.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 7, 2019 20:45:57 GMT -5
So, now you are retired - and looking for another full-time job cutting and selling cabs? It's enjoyable, alright, but does take a lot of time if you plan on doing enough volume to make any real money.
At our shows we've been selling roughly equal amounts of cabs, jewelry, slabs, and rough opal. We just don't do it full time.
Had some good conversations with Sam Silverhawk when we started. We were cutting a lot of the same types of rough as he was, with ours also finished to verifiably high standards. Sam has the name recognition and customer base (very deservedly so) that allowed him to sell similar cabs for higher prices than we could as unknown newcomers to the market. No problem - we just do it for enjoyment.
Whatever you do - have fun with it.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 7, 2019 23:32:27 GMT -5
So, now you are retired - and looking for another full-time job cutting and selling cabs? It's enjoyable, alright, but does take a lot of time if you plan on doing enough volume to make any real money.
At our shows we've been selling roughly equal amounts of cabs, jewelry, slabs, and rough opal. We just don't do it full time.
Had some good conversations with Sam Silverhawk when we started. We were cutting a lot of the same types of rough as he was, with ours also finished to verifiably high standards. Sam has the name recognition and customer base (very deservedly so) that allowed him to sell similar cabs for higher prices than we could as unknown newcomers to the market. No problem - we just do it for enjoyment.
Whatever you do - have fun with it. I don't remember where I said I was interested in a full time job in lapidary. My only goal was make the hobby self funding. I don't plan on doing any more lapidary work than I've done in the past. I'm not trying to pay the bills selling lapidary. Over the years, I've accumulated a lot of lapidary material supplies and over 2000 cabs. I started the topic mentioning a small slab saw and would need to purchase blades for it and my trim saw. In a year or so I'll probably need to replace my 8 inch diamond wheels. My lapidary expenses are very modest and don't need to sell very much to reach equilibrium. .
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Post by Peruano on Apr 8, 2019 6:14:37 GMT -5
I'll take another tangent. One Howardite is variable. Some slabs will have the rattlesnake pattern and others will be blah stripes. It also can have fractures. If you have a good slab it will be easier to evaluate in the hand than from a photo. Selling it for top dollar will take an experienced person seeing it no matter what the venue. With slabs of Howardite and Morrisonite, it would probably be easier to trade for that equipment through an experienced lapidary (they have equipment flow through their vision, if not their physical shops, and can pass on equipment in exchange for slabs they can process into those high dollar cabs. Trading slabs for equipment has no middle agent and direct communication. .
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 8, 2019 9:17:50 GMT -5
stardiamond - my comment was intended just to focus on the amount of time it takes to do the online selling. You're in a good position due to having so much inventory already. I should've phrased that post differently.
Taking the cutting time out of the equation will make your "job" easier than it was for me. Slabbing, cutting, photography, and web site work all added together was a load. If you add custom orders and commissioned work it got to be a bit much at times.
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