|
|
Post by oregon on May 11, 2019 14:33:55 GMT -5
Any one know the status of Lortone (not) producing slab saws?
Maybe it's old news that I just missed. A year or so ago, I thought the Highland Park designs looked completely like the Lortone Saws, and wondered about it. I have a nice Lortone LS-12 I was going to sell, and was looking for pricing info yesterday, noticed that Lortone has no slab saws on their web site, or listed in their print catalog. The HP saws look like clones of the old Lortone designs (even the classic st-10 10" slab saw). I wonder if they sold HP the rights or something? Probably cheaper to manufacture with Chinese labor than could have been had in Seattle.
Just Curious.
|
|
|
|
Post by aDave on May 11, 2019 16:52:10 GMT -5
Any one know the status of Lortone (not) producing slab saws?
Maybe it's old news that I just missed. A year or so ago, I thought the Highland Park designs looked completely like the Lortone Saws, and wondered about it. I have a nice Lortone LS-12 I was going to sell, and was looking for pricing info yesterday, noticed that Lortone has no slab saws on their web site, or listed in their print catalog. The HP saws look like clones of the old Lortone designs (even the classic st-10 10" slab saw). I wonder if they sold HP the rights or something? Probably cheaper to manufacture with Chinese labor than could have been had in Seattle.
Just Curious.
I found a note in the Minnesota Lapidary Supply catalog that Lortone was no longer producing slab saws. You made me look, and I hadn't noticed that Lortone had pulled them from its website. And, you're right, the HP's look almost exactly like the smaller slab saws I'd looked at before. I think HP is also calling that line of saws Hightone saws. |
|
QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
|
Post by QuailRiver on May 11, 2019 18:04:56 GMT -5
Yes, Lortone has stopped making slab saws. I don't think Lortone sold the rights to the new HP makers. I think Lortone just never filed any patents on their machines so they have no patents to protect. So the makers of the new HP saws can copy them just like they did the old HP designs without fear of legal repercussions.
I don't know for sure what the reasons are that Lortone stopped producing their line of slab saws. But I do know that it has gotten very difficult to get quality bearings in the type of insert bearings that their 10", 12" and 14" saws use. And I think remember hearing that Dayton Motors have stopped producing the gear motors used as powerfeed motors on those same sized saws. And I've been reading lots of complaints from multiple fields (not just Lortone)about quality problems with the new fractional motors (motors with less than 1hp) that are being manufactured these days. So producing reliable saws in Lortone's price range with the poor quality outsourced parts that are currently on the market may have just become too much of a challenge to be profitable.
Larry C.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on May 11, 2019 20:46:44 GMT -5
Yes, Lortone has stopped making slab saws. I don't think Lortone sold the rights to the new HP makers. I think Lortone just never filed any patents on their machines so they have no patents to protect. So the makers of the new HP saws can copy them just like they did the old HP designs without fear of legal repercussions. I don't know for sure what the reasons are that Lortone stopped producing their line of slab saws. But I do know that it has gotten very difficult to get quality bearings in the type of insert bearings that their 10", 12" and 14" saws use. And I think remember hearing that Dayton Motors have stopped producing the gear motors used as powerfeed motors on those same sized saws. And I've been reading lots of complaints from multiple fields (not just Lortone)about quality problems with the new fractional motors (motors with less than 1hp) that are being manufactured these days. So producing reliable saws in Lortone's price range with the poor quality outsourced parts that are currently on the market may have just become too much of a challenge to be profitable. Larry C. Thanks for that. |
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on May 11, 2019 22:22:43 GMT -5
I talked to a lady at Lortone. she said they just couldn't keep up with making the saws so they decided to quit making them. They are still making replacement parts for now but may stop making those soon. Last parts I ordered they didnt have in stock and it took about a month to make the replacement parts but they did make them for me.
Tony
|
|
|
|
Post by oregon on May 13, 2019 12:28:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the updates. The HP saws look sooo identical, it's hard to imagine they didn't have the plans, or want to modify a few things? who knows. So does that make the not so old made in the USA Lortone slab saws more valuable, or less since getting parts now might be an issue? hmmm.
|
|
|
|
Post by greig on May 13, 2019 13:14:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the updates. The HP saws look sooo identical, it's hard to imagine they didn't have the plans, or want to modify a few things? who knows. So does that make the not so old made in the USA Lortone slab saws more valuable, or less since getting parts now might be an issue? hmmm. For sure, don't scrap an old saw, as the parts would probably help somebody out. I just bought a Lortone 10", but this thread makes me think I need to check if I bought a trim saw or a slab saw. I found one that had been used once and looked brand new. I snapped it up like a chicken eating a worm. |
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on May 13, 2019 17:56:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the updates. The HP saws look sooo identical, it's hard to imagine they didn't have the plans, or want to modify a few things? who knows. So does that make the not so old made in the USA Lortone slab saws more valuable, or less since getting parts now might be an issue? hmmm. For sure, don't scrap an old saw, as the parts would probably help somebody out. I just bought a Lortone 10", but this thread makes me think I need to check if I bought a trim saw or a slab saw. I found one that had been used once and looked brand new. I snapped it up like a chicken eating a worm. |
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on May 13, 2019 18:03:21 GMT -5
For sure, don't scrap an old saw, as the parts would probably help somebody out. I just bought a Lortone 10", but this thread makes me think I need to check if I bought a trim saw or a slab saw. I found one that had been used once and looked brand new. I snapped it up like a chicken eating a worm. John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Ls10 is a slab saw, lt10 is a trim/slab saw. |
|
|
|
Post by greig on May 14, 2019 8:41:01 GMT -5
John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Ls10 is a slab saw, lt10 is a trim/slab saw. Thanks for the info. I got a TS10-C. Glad TS doesn't stand for Tile Saw. I already have one of those. LOL |
|
|
|
Post by oregon on May 14, 2019 11:49:57 GMT -5
John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Sad indeed. I try to steer folks clear of the 'New' HP, Have to think of a better acronym than Horse Product...
|
|
|
|
Post by greig on May 15, 2019 8:18:16 GMT -5
John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Sad indeed. I try to steer folks clear of the 'New' HP, Have to think of a better acronym than Horse Product...
Half Price Horrible Product Has Problems ... |
|
john0760
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2021
Posts: 3
|
Post by john0760 on Dec 1, 2021 23:22:13 GMT -5
John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Ls10 is a slab saw, lt10 is a trim/slab saw. You really don't know anything about how we do business so I would appreciate you not making up stories that are not correct. I never have anyone "make copies for me" and would never consider "outsourcing". We have our own factory, I do all the design and reverse engineering, CNC machine programming work myself, and I check every machine in our factory before we ship. We are super proud of our machines, and we keep improving and innovating every year. The "lortone designs" as you call them, actually came from Spartan many years back. Like any intellectual property, designs are only restricted when they are patented, and even if patented, they are only protected for 20 years. This is why there is "generic" asprin, and literally hundreds of different companies making "aftermarket" chevy engine parts. So are those aftermarket part makers "ripoffs", or are they offering quality competitive parts? Is it bad that there are now hundreds of different toothbrush makers, and are they "criminal" since they are based on the original toothbrush patent which is long expired? You really should brush up on the rules of "free enterprise" before just speaking out of turn. - Furthermore, If you look at our design compared to the original Spartan/Lortone saws, you will see we replaced the cheezy stamped steel bearings with no alignment adjustment with heavy duty cast iron pillow block bearings on a real arbor plate with 4 adjusting screws.
- We made the carriage out of heavier steel and then precision bore the carriage and vise base to eliminate any of the typical slop associated with the lortone carriage cross feed
- I put a replaceable brass crossfeed nut into the vise base, so unlike the original Spartan/Lortone design, it can be replaced when the threads get worn
- We put crossfeed bushings in the carriage crossfeed
- I changed the carriage to main rail adjustment so it can be adjusted from the top and that it holds adjustment much better with 3 cantilever bearing roller blocks instead of that goofy angle iron setup that the Spartan/Lortone design had that required taking the saw apart and turning it upside down to adjust.
- I developed a new control box that prevents accidental restarting from a touchy switch because I was tired of the oil bath that the old Lortones would give from time to time when the switch didnt turn all the way off.
- We use only cast iron pulleys, not the junky die cast zinc pulleys that Lortone and Covington use on their machines. Yeah, it costs a bit more but the die cast zinc always comes loose over time because its too soft and only has one set screw
- We added a big drain....why on earth had no one ever thought to do this before?
We love lapidary, Ive been cutting since 1970.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on Dec 2, 2021 8:47:50 GMT -5
John Rowland sent used saws to China to get the copies made. IMO what he did to the HP name with his saws is shameful, what he did to an existing company with the Lortone ripoff saws should be criminal. Ls10 is a slab saw, lt10 is a trim/slab saw. You really don't know anything about how we do business so I would appreciate you not making up stories that are not correct. I never have anyone "make copies for me" and would never consider "outsourcing". We have our own factory, I do all the design and reverse engineering, CNC machine programming work myself, and I check every machine in our factory before we ship. We are super proud of our machines, and we keep improving and innovating every year. The "lortone designs" as you call them, actually came from Spartan many years back. Like any intellectual property, designs are only restricted when they are patented, and even if patented, they are only protected for 20 years. This is why there is "generic" asprin, and literally hundreds of different companies making "aftermarket" chevy engine parts. So are those aftermarket part makers "ripoffs", or are they offering quality competitive parts? Is it bad that there are now hundreds of different toothbrush makers, and are they "criminal" since they are based on the original toothbrush patent which is long expired? You really should brush up on the rules of "free enterprise" before just speaking out of turn. - Furthermore, If you look at our design compared to the original Spartan/Lortone saws, you will see we replaced the cheezy stamped steel bearings with no alignment adjustment with heavy duty cast iron pillow block bearings on a real arbor plate with 4 adjusting screws.
- We made the carriage out of heavier steel and then precision bore the carriage and vise base to eliminate any of the typical slop associated with the lortone carriage cross feed
- I put a replaceable brass crossfeed nut into the vise base, so unlike the original Spartan/Lortone design, it can be replaced when the threads get worn
- We put crossfeed bushings in the carriage crossfeed
- I changed the carriage to main rail adjustment so it can be adjusted from the top and that it holds adjustment much better with 3 cantilever bearing roller blocks instead of that goofy angle iron setup that the Spartan/Lortone design had that required taking the saw apart and turning it upside down to adjust.
- I developed a new control box that prevents accidental restarting from a touchy switch because I was tired of the oil bath that the old Lortones would give from time to time when the switch didnt turn all the way off.
- We use only cast iron pulleys, not the junky die cast zinc pulleys that Lortone and Covington use on their machines. Yeah, it costs a bit more but the die cast zinc always comes loose over time because its too soft and only has one set screw
- We added a big drain....why on earth had no one ever thought to do this before?
We love lapidary, Ive been cutting since 1970.
John I doubt you remember, but we "met" in Quartzsite, I don't know, 12 years ago maybe. Pretty sure it was you and not your brother, but memories are fleeting. I was in the market to maybe take a saw home with me, didn't have anything in 18" that I was happy with. When I grabbed the top of the vice on your display saw and gave it a tug it had more slop than my old round rail 14" saw from the '40's or 50's. Over the next few years this forum was full of similar comments from the unfortunate souls who had learned the hard way. If you found this 2 1/2 year old statement from me I'm sure you or an employee has found them too. To fast forward to today, you may have noticed that I am now quiet when your name comes up in forums and social media, except perhaps to offer all the other available options. That is because a couple individuals who are respected friends convinced me that you plugged your quality holes and vastly improved your customer service. Your instructional videos are great, I have sent the links to many. I could go on, but I have an appointment this morning and must scoot. You are invited to PM me and we can talk more. Maybe not what you're looking for but this is about as close to an olive leaf you will get today. I wish you well. |
|
ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165 
|
Post by ivan on Dec 2, 2021 9:26:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the Update & The Rest of the Story. As an hands on owner of a previous Lortone Ls 12 an getting many cutting oil face & clothing baths, etc. I retired & sold the Lortone. I purchased the same type from HP and have never been more satisfied. HP has done their homework on working out the short comings of the Lortone.
Watch their videos! As HP has posted above the improvements made. I have, found out first hand that the multitude of improvements, additions as mentioned & posted make this Saw a pleasure to work with.
Anyone that has had to change the cutting oil, replace bearings, or had problems making adjustments with the cutting cross slide, just to name a few, will appreciate the time & research that had to go into the HP.
Please note - that the Lortone LS 12 I used was adequate. I'm sure my HP replacement will last longer than I will. Keep in mind that I found that the HP staff are not resting on the laurels but always looking & working for ways to make the equipment design & improvements for the future.
Also, that I am not in anyway involved or paid or promoted to make this assessment of HP. Just a satisfied & content HP customer. Hope this hands on assessment & report will help? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go and drain the oil on the HP 12.
|
|
