OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 7, 2019 19:05:39 GMT -5
So I have come across several Scott Murray tumblers that I have picked up in the past few years now. Also what I thought were Scott-Murray tumblers that were actually custom built tumblers. I really like them as a group. They all seem to have slave driven pulleys and belts to drive the second roller, which is a real advantage over Lortone and Thumler's.
Here is the smaller Scott-Murray tumbler that I have now. I lifted this photo off this forum for ease of posting, but mine is exactly the same. I use a Lortone QT12 barrel on mine. I am missing one bushing that I am looking to replace on one of the roller ends. Note: Rochpickerforever is looking up the bushing number and where it can be gotten from. (update: I found them listed at Zoro that were the right size but a tad long, so I trimmed them and they work great). This tumbler is back in action again. Well, its twin is back in action.
FYI: This is a Scott-Murray Hy-Pol Model KCB-10 Rock Polisher Tumbler
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 7, 2019 19:10:49 GMT -5
Here is a medium size 15# Scott Murray tumbler that I also have. The original small motor burned out on me last year so I replaced it with a Taco pump motor on an adjustable wood plate so I can adjust it as the belt expands. I also added the power switch. This rides smooth and easy on raised pillow bushings. I replaced the roller sleeves with electric grey PVC, but they were a pain to pound onto the rollers.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 7, 2019 19:19:34 GMT -5
Here is (edited: custom designed and built) tumbler that I had. I though it was a Scott Murray as it was green and came with a Scott-Murray 15# barrel, and it had a slave drive setup like Scott-Murray tumblers have. However, as it turns out, it was a one-off designed by a guy on this site that contacted me about it. It is way overbuilt. It is now tumbling rock up in Vancouver, BC. Note the side grill, full size bearings with zerk grease fittings, and roller guides for the barrel. And the feet rubbers. This unit will last forever. This came out of a machine shop in Milwaukie that made beer tap handles. They used it for polishing prototypes. As it turns out, the original design had the slave drive on the main drive side, and not as it is here. Someone that had this unit before me changed that around. Also someone changed the wiring to add a bench mount switch. Also it was designed for a different type of narrower barrel, and these were not designed for it. But they work after I added longer bolts to raise the barrel tender rollers on either end so they do not snag the wing nuts.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 7, 2019 19:29:07 GMT -5
Here is another (edited: custom design) tumbler with dual barrels that roll on top of each other in the cage. I have never seen another one like this one with the stacked friction/gravity drive barrel drive. This one was built by the same guy that built the tumbler that I had above. He says he built 3 of this dual stacked barrel type tumbler. This one was owned by a guy in Vancouver, WA.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 8, 2019 0:25:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you are looking for the original thin bushings? Because the sheet metal was worn oval, we did a workaround and replaced the bushings with real bearings. Since we were using aluminum blocks to hold the bearings in place on the ends, the only dimension we needed to keep was the 5/8" ID for the roller shafts. The other dimensions made up a commonly used bearing size: 6203-2RS-10 Sealed ball bearing 5/8" x 40mm x 12mm As mentioned in my original repair post ( forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/58090/refurbed-scott-murray-tumbler) we purchased ten of the bearings, because they are a size that can be used for different things. They were purchased from Fremont Industrial Supply www.fremontindustrialsupply.com/qty-of-10-6203-2rs-10-sealed-ball-bearing-5-8-x-40mm-x-12mm-free-shipping/ . They are currently in stock, ten of them (or you can buy fewer) are $23.15, with free shipping. If you are looking for the original equipment style, inadequate (in my opinion) bushings, I have no idea where you can find those. Lortone makes plastic ones for their QT12/66, but not sure of the OD of the rollers. Don't know if they'd fit or not. I got some from Shawn at The Rockshed to fit my Lortone. Bearings are the way to go! Jean
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 8, 2019 0:39:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure if you are looking for the original thin bushings? Because the sheet metal was worn oval, we did a workaround and replaced the bushings with real bearings. Since we were using aluminum blocks to hold the bearings in place on the ends, the only dimension we needed to keep was the 5/8" ID for the roller shafts. The other dimensions made up a commonly used bearing size: 6203-2RS-10 Sealed ball bearing 5/8" x 40mm x 12mm As mentioned in my original repair post ( forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/58090/refurbed-scott-murray-tumbler) we purchased ten of the bearings, because they are a size that can be used for different things. They were purchased from Fremont Industrial Supply www.fremontindustrialsupply.com/qty-of-10-6203-2rs-10-sealed-ball-bearing-5-8-x-40mm-x-12mm-free-shipping/ . They are currently in stock, ten of them (or you can buy fewer) are $23.15, with free shipping. If you are looking for the original equipment style, inadequate (in my opinion) bushings, I have no idea where you can find those. Lortone makes plastic ones for their QT12/66, but not sure of the OD of the rollers. Don't know if they'd fit or not. I got some from Shawn at The Rockshed to fit my Lortone. Bearings are the way to go! Jean
Thanks for the fast feedback. In my case the tumbler is in good shape and the only thing missing is the one thin bushing. Bearings are nice, but this is a light weight tumbler and I have the heavy duty 15# one to fall back on. I also have a QT12, two 3# Lortone tumblers and two Mini-Sonic vibe tumblers. So yes, I am looking for an original thin Scott-Murray bushing. They were made up in Seattle...
One question that came to mind here though, you do not happen to have one of the original in tact bushings from your S-M tumbler that you could part with, do you?
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 8, 2019 0:43:33 GMT -5
Sorry, no. Did the conversion in 2012. The old parts were tossed, as we had no plans of putting them back in again. As I only have one of them, didn't think to save them.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 8, 2019 14:14:05 GMT -5
So, doing some deep digging online, I found the nylon bushings/bearings that fit this size Scott Murray (5/8") shaft and opening. Covington has similar bushings in their roller tumblers, but only has them up to 1/2" in diameter. They sell them for $1.50. Same bearing, only smaller. MSC does not make these any more. POBCO in Massachusetts makes them. They call them split flange bearings, POBCO part number SLITMD1010. 5/8" inner diameter, 11/16 outer diameter, 15/16" flange diameter. Perfect fit. Only problem is that they have a $100 minimum order to sell direct. They do not have any local retail distributors in this area to order them through, only commercial wholesalers. Of course all I need is one bearing... I do not need 100. Not enough demand to resell the rest of them.
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Post by pauls on Jul 8, 2019 16:05:09 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size.
Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe.
Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 8, 2019 18:31:11 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size. Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe. Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there. Uh, he had said bearing, but what he really meant was bushing. He's looking for the original equipment bushing, without going broke! That's why we went with true bearings, because they are more readily available. Not to mention they do a better job.
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Post by pauls on Jul 8, 2019 19:15:29 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size. Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe. Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there. Uh, he had said bearing, but what he really meant was bushing. He's looking for the original equipment bushing, without going broke! That's why we went with true bearings, because they are more readily available. Not to mention they do a better job. Yep I knew he said bearing and was talking about a bush. You can buy the raw material for bushes (Delrin) in a long stick (usually they will cut a piece to length)all you have to do is put the hole in it and you are sweet. Delrin is great stuff it will stand up to all sorts of abuse from grit and water that destroys bronze or brass bushes.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 9, 2019 0:28:42 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size. Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe. Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there. Bearing supply place? Granger is the only place close to that in PDX, and they do not have these. Engineering shop? In Portland? That is a laugh. It would be cheaper to buy the lot of bearings from PobCo. Seriously. Spend $100 to make a $5.00 part there. 'Twas an engineer myself back in the RayGun daze in Sandy Eggo. I could have made these myself there at the General Dynamics fab shop. After that I was an engineer in the Sillly Valley and I could have made one with a printer. But that would be made of a substandard polymer material.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 9, 2019 0:35:14 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size. Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe. Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there. Uh, he had said bearing, but what he really meant was bushing. He's looking for the original equipment bushing, without going broke! That's why we went with true bearings, because they are more readily available. Not to mention they do a better job. These are bushings, but PobCo calls them bearings. Split flange bearings. High grade plastic with a diagonal space in them. PobCo quoted me $5 a pop in a later email today. Said they last a lot longer than nylon will. They are standard parts, to a degree. Lortone and Covington use the same types of bushings in their tumblers.
To replace these with true bearings I would have to get longer tumbler rods and place them outside the box, and mount them somehow, as you have. Again, more money, more parts, more of a PITA. I am one bushing away from a working tumbler as is. A 10 second fix with the proper size bushing (or bearing).
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 9, 2019 0:41:03 GMT -5
Uh, he had said bearing, but what he really meant was bushing. He's looking for the original equipment bushing, without going broke! That's why we went with true bearings, because they are more readily available. Not to mention they do a better job. Yep I knew he said bearing and was talking about a bush. You can buy the raw material for bushes (Delrin) in a long stick (usually they will cut a piece to length)all you have to do is put the hole in it and you are sweet. Delrin is great stuff it will stand up to all sorts of abuse from grit and water that destroys bronze or brass bushes. Maybe Down Under this is feasible, but not here. The problem is that the busing is only 1/16" thick. That kind of precision will cost. Lots of re-inventing wheels here. The outside would have to be cut to create the flange, and the flange has expando spacers in them. Also the bushing has a diagonal space in it for grease. There is literally no feasible way to replicate these in a shop as you suggest. Its a $5 part from PobCo. If I had 1/2 inch rollers these would be all of $1.50 each from Covington. They are cheap injection molded parts.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 9, 2019 1:16:16 GMT -5
So I dug deeper and found some plastic flanged bearings from Zoro that are the same size as the Pobco ones. Diagonal split, 5/8" ID, 11/16 OD, 15/16" flange diameter. They cost $2.55 for a pack of 5. Not as good as the ones from Pobco, but what the heck. They are cheap. The flanged bearings are on the web here at Zoro (they also sell a lot of variable size pulleys and belts there):
Shipping is $5, so I will get a pack of 5 for $7.55 and have spares. Maybe these will melt, I do not know. Worth a try. I cannot even drive to downtown Portland and back on $7.50 in gasoline.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 9, 2019 18:07:37 GMT -5
Go to a bearing supply place, they may sell or be able to source the correct bearing. Take the shaft and if possible the bearing housing along so they can get an accurate size. Failing that, from the same place buy a small piece of Nylon bearing material or "Delrin" outside diameter to fit the bearing housing, take it to an engineering workshop and get them to bore the correct size hole in a lathe. Scott Murray must have been a bit of an inventor, some very interesting designs there.
Delrin? What's that? Just kidding.
With mrrockpicker being a machinist (CNC HAAS milling center during the week, Manual mills, lathes, etc at home) we have plenty of materials, including Delrin, already available here. He has a full blown machine shop in the garage (hence, why he "remade" the tumbler with aluminium end blocks using bearings). He can pretty much make anything!
To replace these with true bearings I would have to get longer tumbler rods and place them outside the box, and mount them somehow, as you have. Again, more money, more parts, more of a PITA. I am one bushing away from a working tumbler as is. A 10 second fix with the proper size bushing (or bearing).
Exactly! Since my tumbler rods were pretty much wasted, that was the plan from the beginning.
Cost for about three feet of 5/8" cold rolled steel round rod was less then $4.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 9, 2019 18:16:47 GMT -5
So I dug deeper and found some plastic flanged bearings from Zoro that are the same size as the Pobco ones. Diagonal split, 5/8" ID, 11/16 OD, 15/16" flange diameter. They cost $2.55 for a pack of 5. Not as good as the ones from Pobco, but what the heck. They are cheap. The flanged bearings are on the web here at Zoro (they also sell a lot of variable size pulleys and belts there):
Shipping is $5, so I will get a pack of 5 for $7.55 and have spares. Maybe these will melt, I do not know. Worth a try. I cannot even drive to downtown Portland and back on $7.50 in gasoline.
I didn't think to check with Zoro, that was a good find!
So many times we'll need to replace a part on something, and he'll want to make it himself. Most recently it was the lower mount bracket/foot for the awning on our trailer. He could have done it, but it would have taken a lot of time and energy he just doesn't have right now.
I picked it up online for $11.14.
You just have to know when it's cheaper/better/easier to purchase!
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 88
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Post by OregonBorn on Jul 14, 2019 16:23:58 GMT -5
I got the split flange bearings/bushings in the mail from Zoro and they fit nearly perfectly. They are made in Germany. Shipping was twice the proce of the bearings, but I got 5 of them. So I have spares. I had to trim 3/16 off the sleeve length as they were a tad too long for this application, but otherwise they are snug and the Scott-Murray tumbler is back in action.
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