NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 8, 2019 12:08:20 GMT -5
I am going to try to attend the local clubs "Wire Wrapping - 101" class tonight. They had a list of tools that might be required and I don't really have any of those yet. I grabbed some tools that I thought might help some though, that sort of resemble what they require:  But all of those pliers are for the automotive or electronic industry and have serated (not flat) interior jaws. I am looking to buy a nicer set of quality steel pliers in particular to do the job. Judging from what I read last night, I could ultimately end up with a giant fishing tackle box full of tools, jewelry do-dads, specialty equipment, etc. It looks like another slippery (expensive) slope. But I want to get the pliers right. I don't want the el-cheepo stuff that falls apart, snaps, or twists, leaves marks on the wire. Something better. a) Leading contender - Revere pliers www.amazon.com/Revere-Plier-Piece-Stand-PLR-180-98/dp/B005IZ16PKGood steel, from a vendor that has not sold out yet. Still uses good steel. b) Also solid - Lindstrom EX series www.ottofrei.com/Lindstrom-EX-Series-Swiss-Made-Pliers-Kit-of-4-in-Zippered-PouchFormerly a quality steel, no longer made in Sweden, and repuded to be somewhat less than they formerly were c) Expensive, perhaps - Tronex pliers www.firemountaingems.com/itemdetails/H204892TL?engine=google&campaign=[ADL]+[Non-Brand]+[PLA]+[Shopping]+{Good}&gclid=CjwKCAjw04vpBRB3EiwA0IieanKmJhiK-PGIsdO2pig-30sfBTaZzDab2FARKtZKzqIq9W_eJ44UQxoC3U4QAvD_BwELove the long handles, but some reviews claim the steel is very suspect and some bad reviews. d) Possibly - Rio Grande German www.riogrande.com/product/rio-german-four-piece-slimline-pliers-and-cutters-set/111095Originally encouraged, but found negative reviews recently from people who found the quality now lacking, not as good as formerly e) Old Standby, perhaps good - Wubbers www.amazon.com/PLR-1235-Classic-Wubbers-Round-Pliers/dp/B0149HP1KS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8They sell them in sets or individually. Long time favorites by many. Grips might be a little rough but doesn't bother me. Sorry for the long write up. Just wanted to solicit some experienced folks here for advice. I've read some of the older RTH reviews going back a couple years from what I could find as well. I tend to buy the best available when shopping. So I am not looking to save a dollar necessarily, but don't like throwing money away either. Thank you for your time. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 8, 2019 12:30:50 GMT -5
My personal opinions- take it for what it's worth. We all have our favorites.
I like Rio's Swanstrom. Buy once. When they get worn, send them in for reconditioning.
I really dislike wubbers- a lot. Not very good quality. Had to return them. But, they were very good about it and I even spoke with Patti about the issues.
The German Rio ones are very good. They were my first set when I was undecided. I STILL use some of the set to this day.
Don't care for lindstrom cutters. They are not worth it and don't last. I prefer Erem cutters right now, but I go back and forth. I like to try new tools.
Don't like trotonix. They are well made, but awkward size. Didn't like the cutters, either. They couldn't handle much and I use a lot of 20g soft.
Stay away from the tools beadalon sells. There are some really nice Italian tools out there, too. There is a really cheap cutter by Itac (I think is the name). I have had many of those. In fact, they are my back up cutter.
I would buy the best cutters I could afford. The rest you can spend less on and be happy.
ETA- Never waste your money on Eurotool. I notice that that was who was selling that Revere set.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 8, 2019 12:35:48 GMT -5
On another note- I hope you enjoy wrapping. A little advice- pay attention to doing neat bindings, don't let any wires stick out away from your piece and file your ends when you need to, relax and have fun.  |
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Post by MsAli on Jul 8, 2019 13:00:53 GMT -5
Have fun tonight and show us what you come up with
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Post by Pat on Jul 8, 2019 13:07:36 GMT -5
I’m not a wire wrapper. However, I agree with Tela re Swanstrom pliers. I like the longer handles; makes it easier for repetitive work.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 8, 2019 15:43:50 GMT -5
My personal opinions- take it for what it's worth. We all have our favorites.
I like Rio's Swanstrom. Buy once. When they get worn, send them in for reconditioning.
I really dislike wubbers- a lot. Not very good quality. Had to return them. But, they were very good about it and I even spoke with Patti about the issues.
The German Rio ones are very good. They were my first set when I was undecided. I STILL use some of the set to this day.
Don't care for lindstrom cutters. They are not worth it and don't last. I prefer Erem cutters right now, but I go back and forth. I like to try new tools.
Don't like trotonix. They are well made, but awkward size. Didn't like the cutters, either. They couldn't handle much and I use a lot of 20g soft.
Stay away from the tools beadalon sells. There are some really nice Italian tools out there, too. There is a really cheap cutter by Itac (I think is the name). I have had many of those. In fact, they are my back up cutter.
I would buy the best cutters I could afford. The rest you can spend less on and be happy.
ETA- Never waste your money on Eurotool. I notice that that was who was selling that Revere set.
This was a super write up. I was hoping that you would chime in! OK, went with the Swanstrom set (the one with cutters) on the Rio site and look forward to receiving them. I really like the fact that they have longer handles for more control. Thank you for the recommendation. I will try to pay attention to the neat bindings if that is covered this evening. I expect that with any other hobby, there will be a ton of specialty tools and do-dads that will be needed some day. But this should get me by for a while, along with some of the other odds and ends I might have. I have always had an interest in bending wires, but noting productive ever came out of it. I plan on making things for some time to come. Don't expect much from this evening. I plan on going for technique alone. Anything I actually craft using my rugged toothed pliers tonight will probably be undone, and thrown away afterwards. Thank you all! |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 8, 2019 15:54:13 GMT -5
Don't throw away your first piece. You can look back on it and see how far you have come. That comes in handy sometimes. LOL!
I should have said I didn't like swanstrom cutters, too. Sorry. Mine were uber expensive carbide tipped and they broke immediately. I recently got another one, hoping for the best and hated them. Try erem. Very expensive, but worth it. I pick them up on ebay. Even a gently used pair is nice. A good way to get great cutters is on ebay. People who work at a job with many people doing precise work will chuck them before they need to be to get new ones and then someone will collect and sell them. Nice little side gig. Someone at Lockheed was doing that with lindstrom when my son worked there. BTW you'll want flush or semi flush side cutters. They get more technical after that.
If you have time and you are inclined- you can grind the teeth off your pliers.
As for specialty tools, luckily they tend to be cheap things or things you have laying around. You'll start viewing things as potential mandrels real soon. I do find that bailing pliers are very helpful, though.
ETA- What you are looking for in a good cutter more than anything else is that it NOT leave a bur. Anytime you have cutters leaving a bur on the end of the cut- throw it away and get a new pair.
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Post by Pat on Jul 8, 2019 16:46:20 GMT -5
Has anyone found a pair of truly 100% flush cutters? I’d sure like a pair!!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 8, 2019 17:30:58 GMT -5
Thank you. No turning back on the pliers now. Surprised the Rio Grande would charge 16 bucks sales tax, even when they were in another state. They must have a Nevada location to do that.
I am starting to wonder about this "beginners" Wire Wrap class tonight. Not to derail the obvious topic, but in the email distribution they describe requiring 21 gauge round wire and 21 gauge half round. Not to mention a half dozen tools that likely are not in the toolkit of the average person.
I went to Joann's and Hobby Lobby. Both had extensive offerings for a dozen or more manufactures. Not one of them 21 guage, and absolutely no half round material. I asked, and both had none. One girl had never heard of 1/2 round wire.
Doesn't sound too beginner to me. I bought 20 gauge round and am going to make it work anyway. I guess.
Thanks again for the input.
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Post by Pat on Jul 8, 2019 17:44:26 GMT -5
RioGrande is in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
I would find working with 20 gauge wire very difficult.
Re pliers: directly under the roll of blue tape, you have a green handled pair of pliers. There is a small spring connecting the two parts; there is another pair toward the bottom with black handles. I greatly dislike that style since the spring comes out.
The black handled plies sitting on the green pliers is much better. That one long curved piece between the two parts is called a leaf. Some have two shorter leaves. I like those. Some people prefer no connectors --- not me!
Good luck! I look forward to seeing your progress reports.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 8, 2019 18:03:10 GMT -5
You can pick up small amounts of half round / half hard from etsy sellers. I use, almost exclusively, 20g round and 21g 1/2r 1/2h. The 1/2 round is irreplaceable for bindings. If you have trouble with bindings tonight, just remember you haven't tried 1/2 round, yet- very much easier and looks nicer, too.
Agree with Pat about the pliers.
As for flush- I have erem super flush and they are pretty damn close, but it is true that NONE are perfectly flush.
If you picked up hobby store, it is probably coated copper wire and is about 1/2 hard. There are much easier wires to work with. If you really want to get into this- I suggest going to Rio and buying spools of copper wire and just make as many wraps as you can without fear of wasting wire. That really gets to people- the fear of wasting wire. It's a killer. Copper is a joy to work with. I would suggest 22 and 20 round and square (soft and half hard) and 21 1/2 h 1/2 round. You can pick up some liver of sulfur, too. Then you can patinate the wire. Looks really good and helps with oxidation since it already is by virtue of using it. If interested, I can explain more later.
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Post by Pat on Jul 8, 2019 18:47:29 GMT -5
I get all my copper wire on rolls from Rio. Good stuff. Mostly 16 to 24 gauge. . Also buy a lot of 14 gauge half round. All for jump rings.
I’ll check out the erem flush cutters. Thanks.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 9, 2019 9:04:25 GMT -5
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MommaGem
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2019
Posts: 312
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Post by MommaGem on Jul 10, 2019 13:19:50 GMT -5
I didn't see anyone mention it (or I missed it), but I also coat all of the tips of my pliers in a plastic coating to reduce the amount of tool marks on the metal. I have used Tool Magic in the past, but I am transitioning to Plastidip because I hear it's more durable an lasts longer in the can (after you open the jar, over time TM starts to thicken and really unusable after a few months - and I don't go through that much in a few months).
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 10, 2019 13:27:54 GMT -5
I didn't see anyone mention it (or I missed it), but I also coat all of the tips of my pliers in a plastic coating to reduce the amount of tool marks on the metal. I have used Tool Magic in the past, but I am transitioning to Plastidip because I hear it's more durable an lasts longer in the can (after you open the jar, over time TM starts to thicken and really unusable after a few months - and I don't go through that much in a few months). I just condition all my tools. I sand them down nice and smooth and make sure all the edges have been rounded over a hair. Some people use tape, too. |
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 11, 2019 11:03:54 GMT -5
RioGrande is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I would find working with 20 gauge wire very difficult. Re pliers: directly under the roll of blue tape, you have a green handled pair of pliers. There is a small spring connecting the two parts; there is another pair toward the bottom with black handles. I greatly dislike that style since the spring comes out. The black handled plies sitting on the green pliers is much better. That one long curved piece between the two parts is called a leaf. Some have two shorter leaves. I like those. Some people prefer no connectors --- not me! Good luck! I look forward to seeing your progress reports. That is a perfect idea. I ended up doing this exactly (using the blue tape (2 layers) on the hemostats and the long needle nose pliers) to mitigate the damage created by the jaws of those pliers. Thank you very much for this advice, and I wish I had time to read this before I left for the class. |
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 11, 2019 11:11:37 GMT -5
You can pick up small amounts of half round / half hard from etsy sellers. I use, almost exclusively, 20g round and 21g 1/2r 1/2h. The 1/2 round is irreplaceable for bindings. If you have trouble with bindings tonight, just remember you haven't tried 1/2 round, yet- very much easier and looks nicer, too.
Agree with Pat about the pliers.
As for flush- I have erem super flush and they are pretty damn close, but it is true that NONE are perfectly flush.
If you picked up hobby store, it is probably coated copper wire and is about 1/2 hard. There are much easier wires to work with. If you really want to get into this- I suggest going to Rio and buying spools of copper wire and just make as many wraps as you can without fear of wasting wire. That really gets to people- the fear of wasting wire. It's a killer. Copper is a joy to work with. I would suggest 22 and 20 round and square (soft and half hard) and 21 1/2 h 1/2 round. You can pick up some liver of sulfur, too. Then you can patinate the wire. Looks really good and helps with oxidation since it already is by virtue of using it. If interested, I can explain more later.
Thank you. I can see very clearly what you mean about wire cost. I will pick up a large spool of copper 20 so I can just experiment and start to develop muscle memory. I see a lot of pliers for flush cutting. The experienced ones at the class all had the same type, and I forgot to take a picture of them. Blue handles, with large Black lettering with the name of the manufacturer. i've just Googled it, and I am sure they were using these el-cheepo's www.dhgate.com/product/2pcs-lot-5-inch-wire-cutter-scissor-flush/400966938.htmlI am going to hope the Swanstrom's can handle a clean cut. If not, I have several varieties of automotive clean cutters that can handle absolutely any gauge of wire. I am sure I will end up with a couple reliable cutters for different applications. |
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 11, 2019 11:16:08 GMT -5
I didn't see anyone mention it (or I missed it), but I also coat all of the tips of my pliers in a plastic coating to reduce the amount of tool marks on the metal. I have used Tool Magic in the past, but I am transitioning to Plastidip because I hear it's more durable an lasts longer in the can (after you open the jar, over time TM starts to thicken and really unusable after a few months - and I don't go through that much in a few months). The person I was sitting next to (very experienced woman with at least 3 dozen pliers and a whole rolling toolbox of tools and materials, had coated her pliers in a dipping compound. It was white in color. I will look in to Plastidip and Tool Magic to see if these might be the material. To be honest, she could not remember the name, and called the stuff "dipshit". I am not making this up. I learned a lot of new wire wrapping slang the other night. It's possible that wire wrapping could be more frustrating that cabbing. Thank you very much for the recommend. I will likely end up with something to prevent marring. |
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MommaGem
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2019
Posts: 312
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Post by MommaGem on Jul 11, 2019 11:20:20 GMT -5
I didn't see anyone mention it (or I missed it), but I also coat all of the tips of my pliers in a plastic coating to reduce the amount of tool marks on the metal. I have used Tool Magic in the past, but I am transitioning to Plastidip because I hear it's more durable an lasts longer in the can (after you open the jar, over time TM starts to thicken and really unusable after a few months - and I don't go through that much in a few months). To be honest, she could not remember the name, and called the stuff "dipshit". I am not making this up. I learned a lot of new wire wrapping slang the other night.  That is not part of my current wire wrapping slang, but I'll add it!
White in color might be Tool Magic (although PlastiDip comes in white also). TM can be found at Michael's and Joann's. I purchased PlastiDip on Amazon, and I'll actually be trying it out for the very first time today - I hope it's just as good!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jul 11, 2019 11:21:25 GMT -5
I am hesitant to return to Rio Grande, even with the mentions above. We will see.
They do not have a store presence in my state (Nevada). And it is not just the fact they charged State Sales Tax, but the manner in which they did.
If you use Paypal for the transaction as I did (can't speak for credit card, etc), there is absolutely no mention of Sales Tax during any of the screens, leading up to the transaction, or the Paypal transaction. There is no special mention of it either.
You are only aware that there has been a tax, AFTER your whole transaction is complete, and you are sent a receipt with the charge included. In my case 16.50 or so.
In order to not be charged Tax, you need to fill out some special form, and apply for a Tax Free exemption, and be granted one (PRIOR) to your transaction. And it cannot be applied to any transaction made before this is done.
Not only is the practice unheard of, but the method in which Rio Grande slipped in the Sales Tax, is downright shady.
Know this if you have not used them before.
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That is not part of my current wire wrapping slang, but I'll add it! 
