trapperjohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2019
Posts: 29
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Post by trapperjohn on Jul 17, 2019 13:26:18 GMT -5
Here are two pics representing my "experiments" with obsidian. I worked with the material as follows: 1. Obsidian source was the Glass Butte area in Oregon. Sample was selected chiefly for size and apparent lack of fissures, etc. 2. Rock was cut with a Dewalt angle grinder using a 4 1/2" diamond blade. 3. Carving tool was a Dremel 4000 using balled shaped diamond burs of indeterminate grit and size. 4. No attempt was made to refine dimensions or shape. The key question was to determine how the rock would handle rough carving. 5. No attempt was made to polish the rock. Observations 1. Initial Cut * Tear-out was observed on the initial diamond cut. (Note pic #2 where the "edge" cut is shown.) Entry and exit points of the blade are clearly defined. I believe the fixed speed (11,000 rpm) of the grinder coupled with the thick kerf of the diamond blade contributed to this annoying but thus far insignificant problem. * I think I will try to find a thinner diamond blade for my grinder. Alternatively, a tile cutter may prove to be adequate for my slab thickess, which will ultimately be <= 30cm. 2. Object Shape * The "spiral" was cut without regard to final dimension or appearance. I focused on determining how easily the obsidian carved a spiral shape. I also wanted to judge depth of cut and surface appearance. This is an experiment, not an attempt at laying out a proper ammonite. 3. Next Steps * Polishing Experiments - the objective being to obtain the characterisitc gloss of fractured obsidian. I will start on the edges and experiment with different tools and grits. I'll then attempt to polish the 'carved" surface. * I also have a Foredom Flexshaft and "H" series handpiece. Unfortunately the brushes needed replacement and are on order, so I can't report on the benefit of the higher hp which is quite a bit greater than the Dremel. * Bear in mind that I am trying to learn what experienced Lapidaries already know! Any comments, advice, or additional referals to reference material will be gladly accepted!   |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2019 15:14:12 GMT -5
I've never carved anything. This will be very instructional for me to watch. I hope others chime in.
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trapperjohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2019
Posts: 29
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Post by trapperjohn on Jul 17, 2019 16:54:18 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I am quite sure that experienced lapidaries are reading all of this with some amusement. For example, my polishing efforts - soon to be posted - are very hasty at best. This is a continuation of my trial efforts and has led to questions such as:
* Should I cut my slab before or after an initial polish? (I can see advantages both ways, including removal of the stone's outer rind.)
* Should I use grits finer than 1,000 to achieve real shine or simply stop there?
* Is use of an abrasive paste a supplement to sandpaper or a replacement?
Folks, I know that these questions may be more appropriate for a jewelry making group, but rocks, fossils, and jewelry have a lot of commonality. And while I am not trying to subvert the site goals this is a rock carving forum, so what the hey?! Besides - I get better responses and more opinions here, so I hope I'm not aggrevating anyone!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2019 17:08:26 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I am quite sure that experienced lapidaries are reading all of this with some amusement. For example, my polishing efforts - soon to be posted - are very hasty at best. This is a continuation of my trial efforts and has led to questions such as: * Should I cut my slab before or after an initial polish? (I can see advantages both ways, including removal of the stone's outer rind.) * Should I use grits finer than 1,000 to achieve real shine or simply stop there? * Is use of an abrasive paste a supplement to sandpaper or a replacement? Folks, I know that these questions may be more appropriate for a jewelry making group, but rocks, fossils, and jewelry have a lot of commonality. And while I am not trying to subvert the site goals this is a rock carving forum, so what the hey?! Besides - I get better responses and more opinions here, so I hope I'm not aggregating anyone! There used to be quite a few carvers here. I think kk lost interest here because there weren't many carvers here. wampidytoo was a great carver, too. I think he pops in now and again. But, there are a few here who are carving cabs by hand like miket and fernwood . Also, christopherl1234 carves fire agate.
I can't answer all your questions, but I think you should go past 1k. You can buy great felt tipped bobs for the dremel that are are really good to use with paste polish. They come in different shapes. I think that paste would be considered a supplement and not a replacement. I like to use 100k paste for my final polish - well, actually I switched to a spray, but I like them both.
You are most certainly more than welcome to be here. We love everything rocks! Don't give up on us, yet. And, I doubt you are aggravating anyone.  |
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trapperjohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2019
Posts: 29
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Post by trapperjohn on Jul 17, 2019 17:21:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback RJ. I also appreciate your advice regarding pastes and bobs and will be sure to research this.
Far from giving up on the site I've found it to be most helpful and rewarding. If I do get off subject I won"t mind being brought back on track. I tend to overthink things and worry that I'm being a pain. Us old timers are like that sometimes!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2019 17:24:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback RJ. I also appreciate your advice regarding pastes and bobs and will be sure to research this. Far from giving up on the site I've found it to be most helpful and rewarding. If I do get off subject I won"t mind being brought back on track. I tend to overthink things and worry that I'm being a pain. Us old timers are like that sometimes! OK, I promise to reign you in. LOL! Once you have been here awhile, you'll see that we very often get off topic--- like this:
My granddaughter is visiting Mt St Helen's in a few weeks. I told her to pick up some cool rocks for me while she's out that way.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2019 17:26:43 GMT -5
edit to add- I use amazon smile to donate to Gary Sinise- It's still an amazon link, it just looks a little different.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 17, 2019 17:33:58 GMT -5
You'll want to get small baggies to store your bobs and put the grit paste number on the bag. NEVER mix your grits. I use them for metal work and I am real careful not to cross contaminate. That's why sets have so many of each kind. They last a long time- at least, they have for me.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 17, 2019 20:45:56 GMT -5
I had never carved anything before and used what I had on hand. It might help you out a bit, although I have never attempted a figure of anything.
Definitely you want to take the obsidian to the highest polish possible. Obsidian is basically glass and is much like opal in many ways. I would suggest going all the way to at least 14,000 and then using either 50,000 or cerium oxide as your final polish. 50,000 paste and cerium oxide can both be used with felt bobs.
I would also slab your piece before you polish anything. Obsidian has a tendancy to chip and oyster chips could run into the work you've already done and ruin it. You might be able to use a diamond cut-off wheel on your flex shaft to cut out areas of your blank with less chipping than a large saw blade. You would still need to have a water drip to the area and make sure you're using a mask to keep the silica dust out of your lungs.
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Post by christopherl1234 on Jul 19, 2019 2:35:13 GMT -5
So just last week I had to be re-educated and taught some new techniques on getting obsidian to shine. So let me start with the carving tool. Before I became a Diamond Pacific dealer I had tried all sorts of burs. I could never find any that worked well for me in what I was trying to achieve. Once I found Diamond Pacific I quickly figured out a and assembled a group of burs that have served me well for well over a decade. This set consists of two sintered burs one 100 grit and the other 220 grit and four Nova Points in the following grit sizes 280, 600, 1200, and 3k. I finish with 14k Super Polish on a felt bur. This works for nearly everything I cut. When it comes to obsidian I stop at the 1200 bur and go directly to a thick slurry of Premium/Super Cerium on a felt bur for a glass like finish. For some reason.....at least for me....whenever I would go beyond 1200 I would get tiny scratches after I polished. I do the same with opals also. Here is the bur set I use and distribute for Diamond Pacific  Burr Set - Copy by CHRISTOPHER LESSO, on Flickr and here is what a three gram vial of the 14k Super Polish looks like. A little goes a long way  015 by CHRISTOPHER LESSO, on Flickr PM me if you need more info |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 19, 2019 10:12:07 GMT -5
trapperjohn- I don't now if you have seen any of Christpher's fire agates, but I'd say you just got some good advice.
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trapperjohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2019
Posts: 29
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Post by trapperjohn on Jul 21, 2019 11:31:36 GMT -5
Christopher's fire agates are indeed amazing and I will most certainly pm him!
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Post by kk on Jul 28, 2019 5:33:27 GMT -5
I think kk lost interest here because there weren't many carvers here. [/div][/quote] Looks like, Ehhhh? Actually not the case. I just hopelessly detoured into Photography. I'm in an online game called Gurushots, and have yet to win a game. Came as close as 4th recently against a weak field of just 16k pics.. But once I manage that elusive win, I shall be back full force. Itching to get back into it. But Photography takes up just as much time as carving. So they cant be done side by side. See you soon. Kurt |
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Post by kk on Jul 28, 2019 5:41:56 GMT -5
Rockjunquie, I am quite sure that experienced lapidaries are reading all of this with some amusement. For example, my polishing efforts - soon to be posted - are very hasty at best. This is a continuation of my trial efforts and has led to questions such as: * Should I cut my slab before or after an initial polish? (I can see advantages both ways, including removal of the stone's outer rind.) * Should I use grits finer than 1,000 to achieve real shine or simply stop there? * Is use of an abrasive paste a supplement to sandpaper or a replacement? Folks, I know that these questions may be more appropriate for a jewelry making group, but rocks, fossils, and jewelry have a lot of commonality. And while I am not trying to subvert the site goals this is a rock carving forum, so what the hey?! Besides - I get better responses and more opinions here, so I hope I'm not aggrevating anyone! Welcome to the club Trapperjohn Where are your updates on the polish? As for your questions: While I have little experience with Obsidian, I do remember how easy it is to splinter or fracture them. Keep edges as round as possible at first. If you want sharp edges, cut them last. Also you are asking about slabing or cutting first. Cut your intended piece to size first. Its very easy to overheat obsidian or any glassy rock/cristal for that matter, and would be a shame having put in all the work of carving and polish, only to fracture it while cutting to size. For polish: Many threads here on that. But by the end of the day, there are as many variation as there are people giving advise. For a start, just follow someone as experienced as Christopher. If that works for you, fine. If not, on to another variation. For the moment, I'm only dropping in from time to time. But you are wlcome to call on me on FB if you have access. Just look me up under my full name Kainzer Kurt. Greetings, Kurt |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 28, 2019 6:04:12 GMT -5
Hey, kk! So, you're a gamer now? I never would have thought it. Sound like a good one, too. I'm not surprised abt the photography, though. How's your little cabin doing? You'll have to update us soon.
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trapperjohn
starting to shine!
Member since July 2019
Posts: 29
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Post by trapperjohn on Jul 28, 2019 12:06:09 GMT -5
kk, I've bitten off more than I can chew. I started carving soapstone to see if I liked carving rocks instead of wood. As you and others might have predicted I tried to do my initial work in obsidian way too fast - didn't get a good slab cut, tried to sand my work without really knowing what the threshold for overheating looked like, and inevitably cracked the piece. In short, many beginner's mistakes! I actually thought at first that I would be able to rough cut a cube and then carve a seated howling wolf!
I thought working slowly would enable me to carve. My sequence was as follows: cut the slab to proper thickness; rough cut to approximate shape; carve image; polish. My actual slab cut was not uniform in thickness. I tried to level off the cut by sanding and almost got there before the stone fractured. So I turned to soapstone simply because the juices were flowing and I wanted to practice carving while I figured out the first two steps.
I have learned more from posting on this site than my work thus far would indicate. For me the suggestions and gentle criticism are helping to fill the void left by being too far from active clubs. For that I am most appreciative! And like many folks, including yourself, other interests are in competition for my time, so what I start may take longer to complete than originally intended.
I hope to post pics of my ammonite as I proceed. I'll start a new thread to cover that. For the moment I'll just say that the forum is fulfilling its purpose in exposing me to others with similar interests - although I am still playing in the minor leagues.
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Post by kk on Jul 28, 2019 21:11:03 GMT -5
Minor leagues, Never. Its always ALL IN! Yes, soapstone can even be manipulated with your woodworking tools if needed. Its good to start with something remotely familiar. A wolf in obsidian would be great, but its not an undertaking on a first out material, even for someone as experienced as you in shaping solid mass. You got knots in wood that at times can fall out, but it never fractures. So keeping things as cool and pressure free(lateral force against cutting direction) will become an additional habit over time. Active clubs are fine, but you dont really need them, as you got all the basic knowledge from your woodwork already. I never set foot into a club. I learned from practizing, and learning from all people here on the forums, as oldtimers here will testify to. They will also testify that I asked all sorts of questions, and then never really did as they told me to. I paid the prize in time needed for it, but also gained huge jumps in experience as I needed to rescue pieces. Making mistakes, was and is always the best teacher, as long as you finish your project. It does not matter how bad things look at one stage, it can and will work out, IF, you dont give up. But you know that already from your work with wood. As for sanding: Personally, I dont have those tools. So overheating at that stage is not something for me to worry about. I sand everything by hand with papers. My burrs are about Grit 150-250, so I start with papergrit 400/600/1200/2000 and then switch to paste. Soapstone does not need the paste, 2000, should do the trick already. If not, go for 3000 paper. Last but not least, for us carvers, uneven size is good. It allows us more freedom in shaping. Best regards, Kurt |
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Post by fernwood on Jul 29, 2019 9:03:40 GMT -5
kk Who are you on Guru? I am also there and would love to support you. You can PM me your name if you do not want to share.
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Post by kk on Aug 7, 2019 11:20:21 GMT -5
kk Who are you on Guru? I am also there and would love to support you. You can PM me your name if you do not want to share. Hard to support anyone, as computer takes over everything. One can find me under my full name (like on any platform) Here is my current album: gurushots.com/kainzer.kurt/photos |
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Post by arghvark on Nov 1, 2019 9:39:55 GMT -5
kkThis is an aging thread but I'm curious about your progress. Obsidian is fascinating to me and I'd love to learn through your experiences. Argh
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