gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 3, 2019 8:23:25 GMT -5
I try to eliminate all pits, etc. before moving from stage 1 to stage 2. Am I being too paranoid or should I just accept some and move on? I do like a really nice, clean of marks, tumbled rock. But it seems to take a good bit of time to reach that clear of imperfections stage. Just curious. How big is your junk rock pile? Mine is getting bigger.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Aug 3, 2019 9:31:02 GMT -5
I'm pure rockhound, my junk pile is huge! Hahaha... Some material will have pits, vugs, fractures and nothing can be done about it... I take it and run with it... I don't do contests for best tumbles and etc.. I give some to kids, family and friends and sell the rest to vendors.. Just do the best you can and deal with the rest!
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 3, 2019 9:33:14 GMT -5
I am new to tumbling and only a small handful of completed batches with each one I have started I've said I will wait as long as takes to get past all pits, fractures, etc. But my 9yr old daughter and I do this together and we have not learned the patience it really takes to get to flawless stones. Daughter isnt bothered with a few flaws so as long as I dont think it will damage other rocks or seriously hinder the polish of the stone we move it along. Generally, they are very minor (to me) flaws like the tiny pinholes I seem to get on most jaspers, small fractures, or minor undercutting. But with that said, I definitely have a larger pile of rocks that had i started tumbling versus ones that have been completed. When first starting i would pull any stone that wasnt close to being ready to move to stage 2 after 1-2 cycles of coarse stage and then put in diff ones and basically start all over. Took me prolly 2 months of doing this before realizing how much I was slowing the process down instead of helping it. Now, I only remove ones that obviously dont have a chance at cleaning up nicely. Also, been doing a lot of grinding away problem areas before starting the rocks and little touch up grinding on flaws that are apparent after cpl weeks in coarse stage that would otherwise take long time to tumble out. Definitely time consuming to pre grind flaws out but has significantly sped up the time spent in coarse stage. And actually enjoy a few hours behind the tile saw or working stones with dremel.
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 3, 2019 10:17:42 GMT -5
Like he ^ said... with hard stuff like agates and porcelain jaspers most vugs and pits have no effect on neighboring rocks in the batch, but as you get softer, especially obsidian, even the smallest little flaw coming out of coarse can mess up every stage afterwards.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 4, 2019 12:03:09 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your advice.
I usually start with rocks that look like they have potential and give them about three cycles of step 1 before giving up on them. Any really small pin prick, etc. imperfections are usually long gone but toss them into the scrap pile if they still have very visible imperfections.
I just can't see wasting money on them for more grit and polish, not to mention the time, if there is little chance of success.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 5, 2019 19:51:14 GMT -5
Like he ^ said... with hard stuff like agates and porcelain jaspers most vugs and pits have no effect on neighboring rocks in the batch, but as you get softer, especially obsidian, even the smallest little flaw coming out of coarse can mess up every stage afterwards. I'm really not as concerned about the effect of vugs, pits, etc. on other stones in the tumbler. I am much more concerned about the final appearance of the rock being marred by them.
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Post by Starguy on Aug 5, 2019 21:59:35 GMT -5
Just my $.02.
I can accept some depressions in the coarse grind. Cracks are unavoidable. If you have time you can break rocks along the cracks but that can lead to new cracks or chips. I use a handheld spray bottle to clean out pits and cracks. If that doesn’t clean out the coarse grit, they go back for another week. Sometimes pits/cracks/vugs can turn out cool. The biggest thing is avoiding grit transfer. You don’t want any 80 grit in your 220 batch. A good cleaning is the key.
Most people will tumble ugly rocks forever. Give up on them when you realize they will never be pretty and replace them with other rough.
I can’t wait to see some photos of your tumbles.
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 6, 2019 10:22:09 GMT -5
Most people will tumble ugly rocks forever. Give up on them when you realize they will never be pretty and replace them with other rough. We call them pond rocks. In the bottom of a pond under water they look polished.
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Post by Rockindad on Aug 6, 2019 17:13:17 GMT -5
Most people will tumble ugly rocks forever. Give up on them when you realize they will never be pretty and replace them with other rough. We call them pond rocks. In the bottom of a pond under water they look polished. Probably the single hardest thing to get the hang of for me was to learn when to give up on the hard cases- used to have the mentality that I didn't want to "waste" any rocks. Now they get cut up or smashed and are used for filler, making room for others that have more potential. Sometimes we get a few small ones that turn out nice from doing this. Al
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 7, 2019 7:23:46 GMT -5
Thanks for all the great advice. If the rock to be tumbled is a mess from the get-go I don't even start with it. I get PO'd when a buy a box of rocks for the tumbler and some of them are just hopeless for the start. But if it has some small freckles or lines I'll generally leave it in with the step 1 batch until it clears up, my version of rock plastic surgery.
I see other tumbled rocks of very odd shapes and with all kinds of imperfections and was just wondering if this is really what other tumbling folks are trying to accomplish and are satisfied with.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Aug 7, 2019 15:39:14 GMT -5
I have found that many of the experts here have become very selective about rocks that they move on to Stage 2. I understand that, because it might be a business involved and you want the best possible rocks to display. I find that after my first 6 months of tumbling that I am slowly becoming more selective. Actively throwing away loser rocks that would never pan out. Splitting ones with cracks that show up. Trim saw a bunch to begin with to advance the tumbling process on rocks with holes, pits, or undesirable matrix attached. Or grinding a bunch of them, that just need a small section to improve in order to get it closer to moving on. I still have rocks that I call "charity rocks", which I feel look good, have really attractive patterns which would be lost if I kept tumbling them, split or ground them. So I move them on with their imperfection. I wouldn't give advise to anyone, but made a post much like yours about 3-4 months ago. Some of the responses that I received here were just outstanding. Let me see if I can find it... Found it. It may not fit in the context of your original post, but I think about the responses often. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87084/question-rock
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 8, 2019 10:31:16 GMT -5
Thanks for that reference. I wish I had a source for some really good rough agate, etc. I've been happy with banded agate rough from Madagascar but it is hard to find really good pieces. I probably throw away 30% of the rough I get. It doesn't appear worth even attempting to tumble it.
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Kai
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2018
Posts: 331
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Post by Kai on Sept 1, 2019 9:53:35 GMT -5
I hope you don't mind if I use this topic for a similar question: is there any way to estimate if a pit/crack has a chance to turn up nicely (smooth) or is it going to become a monster? Why am I asking this; usually I put up my stones in Stage 1 and leave them there until they become all nice and smooth and the cracks disappear. But a couple of times it happened that tiny little cracks for which I thought "Just a couple of days and they'll be gone completely" instead became huge and irreparable . If I knew, I'd leave them there and do something else with the stone or just not lose my time with it. This way, I destroyed it beyond repair. Here are some before/after photos to better illustrate what I'm talking about: This one I was sure was going to disappear, but it became very deep: These ones I actually liked. I didn't want them to disappear, I wanted them to remain there and just keep polishing the stone. I didn't think they were such radically different hardness than the rest of the stone, especially since I picked it up in a river. River stones usually show such radical differences quite well already when you find them.
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braat
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
Posts: 350
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Post by braat on Sept 1, 2019 14:30:46 GMT -5
I usually am pretty fussy on what moves out of the first stage...normally they need to be smooth all over to the touch and shaped to my liking but recently I'm thinking of changing my "standards" some to allow more interesting rocks to move on. Regularly I come across rocks with cracks and vugs that don't look like they will disappear anytime soon with tumbling so I either grind off the crack/vug with the tile saw hopefully retaining some size and shape appeal or if that doesn't work discard the rock onto my junk pile in the back yard 98% of which are rock hounding rejects because for some reason they don't look near as good when I get home
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Post by TheRock on Sept 1, 2019 15:54:02 GMT -5
Wow this is a good topic! Iv'e been tumbling for two years now and while I'm on the subject I would like to thank all that have answered my questions and who have helped and encouraged me in this hobby. I have thirteen tumblers spinning 24/7 I used to spin away to remove every imperfection then I Turned them over and Intruduce them to Mr. Cabking.That was alot of work! I chased Cracks only to find more cracks and ended up grinding the whole stone away. I dont have a junk rock pile. I figure the bad ones Ill give away or sell cheaply. Now I tumble them for mostly about 1 month. And if I really am after it for Max 2 months. I use 30G SiC for 1st stage exclusively and use prolly more than I should cause I don't open the tumbler Unless its dry or I notice a leak which normally never happens cause I make new Gaskets for my tumblers and keep the wingnuts tight! Remember I'm a Licensed Pipe-fitter and we go till its tight and one more turn for good measure! Anyways I can hear if it has water inside and since I got away from Using Kitty Litter a year and a half ago I have had alot less leaks and My Lotones haven't blew a Lid off. Anyways after the first stage it's to the Vibe I have Containers Full Waiting for the Vibes To be freed up Cause I Have 9 Rotary Tumblers Feeding 2 Lot"O"s and a UV18 and 10. When that Diamond Pacific 40T Pukes out its Stones It is 35 Lbs and Right now I Have 30 Lbs of Tiger Eye Ready to be Polished adding a Big Boy like that to your arsenal changes things for sure. So If they need extra Special Treatment 2 Months Max after that a couple cracks or pits just gives Em Character I figure I'm all chipped, Cracked, And pitted so the Stones Can Be Too.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Sept 2, 2019 14:21:09 GMT -5
Kai, you little Thread Ninja! Just kidding. Nice before / after photos by the way. I do the same as you, often. If I don't see a crack traveling through, I will saw or grind the area down some and throw it in the tumbler.
What I have gotten good at, is doing a serious rock by rock evaluation after each stage, to determine their fate. Some ugly things can happen in Stage 2, 3 or even 4.
My beginner advice, split them (and maybe grind them a bit too) and send them back to Stage 1. They will make two beautiful rocks instead of one.
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Kai
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2018
Posts: 331
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Post by Kai on Sept 2, 2019 15:07:27 GMT -5
LOL haha, so that's how you call it on this forum, a Thread Ninja? And here I was doing it in good faith of sparing the forum another almost identical topic when there was an already existing one. Thanks everyone for your advice. The pink one I certainly intend to split and make two rocks, but I'm a bit worried - it has another little crack. It looks very innocent, hardly noticeable at all - but so did that first one. How do I know it won't deepen like that, again? I don't want to end up cutting and grinding the entire stone away.
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Sept 2, 2019 22:02:44 GMT -5
When I tumble, I don’t really care about any pits, as long as they’re not gaping huge. I try to avoid all fractures though - pits imo don’t impede how a rock looks, it’s the fractures that do RJ
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Sept 4, 2019 9:15:01 GMT -5
RJ - Do you have much of a problem with grit getting stuck in the pits and goofing up the next tumbling step? I have given up using a tooth brush trying to get out each little bit of stuck grit, etc. I get them pretty smooth and then run a one day super-wash which seems to remove any of the stuck crud in the cracks and pits.
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rjbud1
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2015
Posts: 100
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Post by rjbud1 on Sept 4, 2019 16:55:02 GMT -5
RJ - Do you have much of a problem with grit getting stuck in the pits and goofing up the next tumbling step? I'm have given up using a tooth brush trying to get out each little bit of stuck grit, etc. I get them pretty smooth and then run a one day super wash which removes any of the stuck crud. I only worry about it unless it’s like a big glob of grit stuck in there. In my experience 2 or 3 pieces of bigger grit hasn’t messed up my tumbles, popular to contrary belief. I haven’t tumbled in a while though, I’m short a good barrel and grit. But I have noticed a great tool at getting grit out from those pits - the Water Pik. It’s those things used to de-scale your teeth at the dentist. I had one, it was about $16 from Amazon, I used it for that purpose and also for cleaning shells. However, I ruined it in an attempt to upgrade its water stream (I tried making it have more PSI, but it didn’t work)...
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