JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Oct 13, 2019 14:44:41 GMT -5
IMO cut a grindstone and go ahead and use the blade for practice with softer and less valuable materials, then when you can get a 303 or 301 style sintered blade. In the meantime don't force it, you can expect pretty slow cutting with the old continuous rim blades, and adding force to the weight of the saw is going to dull the blade. If your lubricant flow is still minimal you might consider some kind of sump pump. Thanks for the feedback. Can you discuss and suggest a grind stone? I can get a new blad just need to take this one off. The oil has been much better since I adjusted the copper superfluous insurmountable arch. I’m using mineral oil and the blade gets marginally hot. I kept an eye on it as I don’t want anything overheating. This thing (saw) is almost 50 years old! |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Oct 14, 2019 8:29:21 GMT -5
We use pieces of an old black silicon carbide grinding wheel.
In your Sept. 15th post you said there is minimal oil spray when cutting, and the latest photo doesn't show much oil on the saw table. Combined with your comment about the blade getting marginally hot I wonder if your coolant flow rate is still a little low.
Old - and "bargain" - blades can be maddeningly slow, so don't blame the pump yet. It should be putting enough oil to the cut to have some excess oil building up on the table prior to it draining back into the reservoir. If you're getting enough oil up to it, then a new blade should really get you going.
Whenever you get a new blade, experiment with small amounts of weight (if needed) to let the saw cut without you having to pull it down throught the cut. The Lortone drop saw manual even gave a max for extra weight added to their factory setup.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Oct 19, 2019 6:30:11 GMT -5
For your comments about the coolant rate possibly being low: I’m actually holding the tubing on the blade myself. It’s dropping oil at what I would think is a good amount, but I really don’t know what to compare it to.
The idea of a small weight had not occurred to me but it is a most welcome idea. I am spending my time apply a bit of pressure to get it to go through the rock.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Oct 19, 2019 9:48:01 GMT -5
Hmmm. Now you've got me in "engineering" mode with your comment about holding the oil supply line. It would be nice to have a flexible tube secured inside the splash guard so oil would drop directly on the blade. That setup was problematic with my first "machine" because light spray from the blade would blow the coolant falling from above off to the side. It worked, but not as well as it could. I eventually put a baffle behind the coolant nozzle.
The LS 14 drop saw has fittings to split the oil flow, putting oil directly onto both sides of the blade just down from top-center. Main line is run into a t-block, two hoses run down from that and into holes in the side of the splash guard. If you're getting enough flow, you could duplicate that type of setup.
As for flow rate on your oil supply line, if there's enough to clear out the cut and you're not seeing any sludge buildup where the blade hits the stone, it's good. Ideally a bit of excess oil running off the stone where the blade hits it is good. That means there's enough for cooling the blade.
Sorry for no photo of the LS 14. If these comments seem short, we're off to a rock show this morning. Will get a pic of oil supply lines later if you want to see it.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 3, 2020 8:22:37 GMT -5
Hey folks, haven’t had much reason to post lately. That said, I’m excited to say I have a new saw blade headed to me and I should receive it TODAY! The saw blad I have is cutting about a 10/vertical inch. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad!
I continue to hold the supply line so haven’t found that I can add a weight to handle and walk away. There’s so much potential for what I have lounging around the yard. Even stuff I’ve previously polished can be cut!
I’m hoping that the harsh winter will be a little better than initially thought for tumbling. I have purchased some waterproof lined work gloves so I can dump my drums.
So things are shaping up. In the meantime I have been putting bails in my freeform tumbles and giving as gifts. What fun!! What are y’all up to?
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quartz
Cave Dweller 
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on Jan 3, 2020 23:55:04 GMT -5
One thing to check on your pump is the "head space" between the end of the impeller and the cover. This can be accomplished with a couple little balls of modeling clay. If you put the clay on in a couple places on the impeller and put the cover back on, then take the cover off, you should have at best no more than .005 inch thickness on the balls. My Post-it note pages run .004" thick as an example. Much thicker than that on the clay balls means you are stirring the oil rather than moving it. I have fixed excessive head space on pumps by milling, filing [carefully], or lapping on sandpaper supported on a flat surface, the inside surface of the pump head to bring the space down closer.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 4, 2020 8:09:02 GMT -5
One thing to check on your pump is the "head space" between the end of the impeller and the cover. This can be accomplished with a couple little balls of modeling clay. If you put the clay on in a couple places on the impeller and put the cover back on, then take the cover off, you should have at best no more than .005 inch thickness on the balls. My Post-it note pages run .004" thick as an example. Much thicker than that on the clay balls means you are stirring the oil rather than moving it. I have fixed excessive head space on pumps by milling, filing [carefully], or lapping on sandpaper supported on a flat surface, the inside surface of the pump head to bring the space down closer. Well that is interesting. I never would have thought of that being an issue; I always like learning. I will give that a try! Thank you. Today’s the day, going to install that new blade! |
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Post by Peruano on Jan 4, 2020 9:20:44 GMT -5
I'm betting you will see a world of difference. I like to see oil dripping off the cut, but if the cut stays clean without sludge buildup you probably are providing enough oil. Enjoy the new blade.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 6, 2020 7:08:49 GMT -5
I'm betting you will see a world of difference. I like to see oil dripping off the cut, but if the cut stays clean without sludge buildup you probably are providing enough oil. Enjoy the new blade. The new blade is like heaven. It was taking me 10 minutes to go through an inch before and this new blade just sliced right through. I Can’t believe I waited so long. The oil feed was more than satisfactory. I sliced up some jasper that didn’t take a great polish in the tumbler, some small 1-2” thunder eggs and some jasper that I had been cutting with the dull blade. The saw does a creat job of serving up 1/4” slices. I don’t know the last time I have had so much fun! Now to decide what to do with all the pieces. |
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on Jan 6, 2020 14:48:41 GMT -5
Good to see you got your saw working very satisfactorily, especially after straightening the "copper superfluous arch", love that term, gave you an acceptable oil delivery. Often times, the simplest fix is the most effective.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 9, 2020 7:54:11 GMT -5
Good to see you got your saw working very satisfactorily, especially after straightening the "copper superfluous arch", love that term, gave you an acceptable oil delivery. Often times, the simplest fix is the most effective. Funny but true! I just hold onto the tubing now and set the arch aside. I hope I’m feeding it well, there’s certainly enough flow as oil is all over the deck of the saw. I’m aiming it to the front side of the cut, on the blade. I try not to touch the blade but it’s inevitable. I cut some mini thundereggs and some pet wood. I’d never have known how crystallized the pet wood is (in the grain of the wood) had I not sliced it. I’m eager to slice some of my jet and green petrified wood but it snowed last night and “winter” is supposed to kick in with more snow too for a week. I have my saw outside as I don’t want the dust in my garage. I suppose I could rock the shop vac somehow. Also, I wish we were on DST so it didn’t get dark at 4:45ish. It would leave me more time to cut. I guess I’ll have to do it on my lunch hour lol. |
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Post by Peruano on Jan 9, 2020 8:21:33 GMT -5
As you apparently know, if the oil hits the front of the blade (moving downward) it is less likely to be thrown forward toward the operator, but oil hitting the blade in the top quarter is more likely to project toward the front of the saw and make a mess. Oil-dri a cat litter type oil absorbent is a great way to clean up any drips or spray, and might help you feel more comfortable about moving into the garage. I doubt that you will produce dust and even over the long term if managed properly, oil mist should be minimal nuisance (but that depends of many factors - most importantly the saw and the operator and the volume of work). I live in arid dusty New Mexico and the frequent winds blow enough dust to mitigate oil contamination on my shop floor and surfaces.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on Jan 10, 2020 0:34:26 GMT -5
JR8675309, we have two machines that require support for the coolant lines so to keep the juice flowing where it's supposed to. I have good luck using LOC-LINE modular hose with my coolant line inside of it, the LOC-LINE being a support structure only. See www.ModularHose.com. It might work better for you to just use the modular hose itself for the coolant as it holds its position quite well. Have a look at it.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 10, 2020 7:21:37 GMT -5
JR8675309, we have two machines that require support for the coolant lines so to keep the juice flowing where it's supposed to. I have good luck using LOC-LINE modular hose with my coolant line inside of it, the LOC-LINE being a support structure only. See www.ModularHose.com. It might work better for you to just use the modular hose itself for the coolant as it holds its position quite well. Have a look at it. Well that’s a brilliant idea! Thanks for sharing it. Now I just need to know where on the blade I should guide it to. I have doubts I’m doing it right already. |
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Post by Peruano on Jan 10, 2020 11:31:28 GMT -5
If you search for photos of 14" or so lapidary drop saws, some of them actually have the oil routed to a hole on each side of the blade deflector. The position of the oil outlet is approximately 10 degrees past the hour or 2 o'clock if you are looking at the side of the blade. That way the blade is moving downward when the oil hits it rather than toward the front of the saw (horizonatally). Just a bit of rotation greatly affects where the oil is thrown. Keep on playing.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Jan 28, 2020 20:58:14 GMT -5
Cutting has been great, or was. I feel like the blade got dull rather quickly. It’s an MK 303 so it wasn’t cheap. I took someone’s advice and sawed through a brick this weekend and it seemed to get better. I question whether the mineral oil is enough to keep the blade cool. Perhaps I need someone petroleum based. I have some “tool cool” from the rock shed, but that may not be as good as mineral oil. Does anyone have any input?
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Post by aDave on Jan 28, 2020 21:25:11 GMT -5
Cutting has been great, or was. I feel like the blade got dull rather quickly. It’s an MK 303 so it wasn’t cheap. I took someone’s advice and sawed through a brick this weekend and it seemed to get better. I question whether the mineral oil is enough to keep the blade cool. Perhaps I need someone petroleum based. I have some “tool cool” from the rock shed, but that may not be as good as mineral oil. Does anyone have any input? Dressing the blade may not be the only thing you need to do to condition your blade. Take a look at the document in this post. For your issue, start at page 5. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/52499/general-lapidary-infoFor saws, it's either oil or water, so I don't know what else you might want to use. If your blade is less than 10", water might be okay. Greater than that, mineral oil is what you would use. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jan 28, 2020 21:35:53 GMT -5
Old black silicon carbide wheels will do a better job for you. Cast-offs from a bench grinder work.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
|
Post by JR8675309 on Jan 29, 2020 9:31:53 GMT -5
Cutting has been great, or was. I feel like the blade got dull rather quickly. It’s an MK 303 so it wasn’t cheap. I took someone’s advice and sawed through a brick this weekend and it seemed to get better. I question whether the mineral oil is enough to keep the blade cool. Perhaps I need someone petroleum based. I have some “tool cool” from the rock shed, but that may not be as good as mineral oil. Does anyone have any input? Dressing the blade may not be the only thing you need to do to condition your blade. Take a look at the document in this post. For your issue, start at page 5. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/52499/general-lapidary-infoFor saws, it's either oil or water, so I don't know what else you might want to use. If your blade is less than 10", water might be okay. Greater than that, mineral oil is what you would use. Hi aDave I am using Mineral oil such as you might find at a feed store. It’s definitely better than the kind for humans as I do not notice it turning black on the cut. That’s said I was wondering if “Tool Cool” from the rock shed is better: Shawn said the hierarchy of lubricants is petroleum based oils, mineral oil, lubricants like tool cool and then Water. This I was trying to get at two issues: Is mineral oil I use (from the feed store) good enough for my 8” drop/chop saw? 1- if so could I “downgrade” to tool cool (definitely easier on my pump) 2- if not should I move to petroleum based oil? 3- or should I stick to what I’m using? 4- get a better brand of mineral oil? Lastly, the issue could be that perhaps I do need to sharpen with a grinding wheel as hummingbirdstones2 suggests. Thanks for everyone’s input! |
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 29, 2020 10:42:07 GMT -5
I own the MK 170 Tile Saw, use three different types of blades. I dress each after extended rock cutting with a common knife sharpening stone from Harbor Freight (it was recommended to me by a few members here at RTH). I don't run oil's though this machine, only fresh water never recirculated........:  Each blade has it's own purpose, depending on the size and finish of the cut desired. Each handles almost any MOH's 7/8 or lower stone very well. Each has proven to last as long, if not longer, than many of the more expensive MK blades I have purchased..........just my experience, MK blades are as good as advertised if maintained well. But for the price I've found alternatives that fit my needs.........Just a thought. |
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