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Post by fernwood on Oct 31, 2019 7:01:26 GMT -5
Does knowing the specific location/mine of certain rocks make them more credible than a general description?
What if a rock looks exactly like one that was attributed to a certain location, but was received with no ID? What do you do then, other than ask for conformation here?
What if a person collected this rock themselves from a known location?
Some examples:
Morgan Hill Poppy Jasper vs Poppy Jasper?
Kingman Turquoise vs AZ Turquoise?
Lake Superior Agate vs Agate?
Nazlini AZ Petrified Wood vs Petrified Wood?
Petoskey Fossil vs Michigan Fossil?
I am beginning to learn specific attributes for certain locations, but am often at a loss between several possibilities.
Another question I have is about the Turquoise I recently acquired. Since all of it was mined at private claims near established mines, I am guessing it was within the same vein as those mines. It sure looks like what is attributed to those mines.
Is it OK to state that it was mined from a private claim near such and such mine?
Is it OK to state attributed to such and such mine/location for rough rocks that one did not collect themselves?
I have many rocks/slabs/cabs that the person I received them from attributed to certain locations/mines. Some have specific ID’s.
Business ethics are coming into play here.
If you obtain items from someone you trust, do you feel comfortable using their ID for your finished product? Yes, my OCD is emerging. Partially due to my insurance company’s requirements. They have asked for a detailed statement of any rocks/slabs valued at over $50.00. Those with less value can be lumped together.
Last question: Insuring rocks/equipment might sound trivial to some but considering where I live and the wiring in my house, it is needed.
I have had an LLC since 2002 for jewelry, which I am expanding to lapidary. My insurance company cautioned me to only state specific provenance for rocks I make into cabochons if I am 100% sure of what they are. Liability issues in case someone would purchase something and then learn I misrepresented it.
I love the insurance company I have had since the late 1970’s as they are on top of everything. Looking out for my best interest. I have been with them for all moves.
I also need to provide an estimated value for all lapidary equipment. Will be asking for estimates on that in another topic. I can handle the value of all supplies I have.
So thank you to anyone who responds.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 31, 2019 7:20:22 GMT -5
I understand completely where you are coming from, but you seem to be overthinking it.
Location is ALWAYS good to know. So, is a general description.
Yes, if you have gotten the rock from someone who has named it and you trust them- then go with that and state that. If I don't know a thing about it, I will call it a mystery agate or jasper or whatever. (Sometimes, eye appeal is enough.) I think it is safe to say that something came from a mine close to such and such. If you can get a consensus, here or elsewhere about a rock, go with it. If you collected it yourself, of course, state where it was collected- if it is what you claim, ie agate (Lake Superior), poppy (Morgan Hill Poppy). Bottom line is you need to be fairly knowledgeable yourself as to what it is and then trust others when naming the source when it goes along with what you are thinking. You should state that, though. I would say something like, "This came to me unnamed but after research and reaching out I have confidently identified this as ...." . On things that are blatantly such and such, I don't bother with that. When an agate (etc) looks great, but I have no name, the eye appeal will sell it, so I don't stress about it. So, sometimes, you just need to know what kind of rock it is.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 31, 2019 7:45:16 GMT -5
Thanks. Since I am trying to insure everything, I am being OCD. Your comments have helped a lot.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 31, 2019 9:23:00 GMT -5
Also, regarding your turquoise -- since it is extremely difficult to identify turquoise as being from a specific mine, what I would do is go with the areas that the person who gave you them identified. If it came from near a specific mine, I would not say it was from that mine because it didn't. Even if you can surmise that the vein was the same, you don't know that for sure, so I would say it came from that area.
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Post by greig on Oct 31, 2019 10:43:20 GMT -5
I look at the value question a bit differently. Typically, the value of the rock or crystal is mostly in its quality. Knowing exactly where it came from is interesting and for some collectors really important. For example, some people collect one good rock from each mine - so they won't buy unless they know it is one they don't have. However, I am not sure how much extra value is added (unless of course it adds to the rare factor). On the other hand, it does add to the confidence factor that the rock is as described (known minerals from a well documented site).
Now, the problem comes up about trust. There can be a number of reasons that the location info is wrong. Some places allow you to collect, but not sell. Other times, the rocks were acquired during a sneak into areas they were not allowed. Rocks get mixed up on collecting trips (this happens to me). Sometimes, the collector just wants to keep his spot secret. There are folks who import rocks and try to sell them as local. However, If you know the mines and area, you can sometimes look at a sample and know with a high degree of confidence the mine it came from. For instance, during the gold rush, it was difficult for highgraders to sell their stolen gold because miners could look at the nuggets and know what creek they came from. Therefore, many of the "lost mine" stories: "I found this gold in a remote canyon and don't know how to get back there". Unless they tried this far far away, they got caught and faced miner's justice.
Regarding insurance purposes - those guys will take your money and may later give you a hard time if something bad happens. They will make you prove your loss. One suggestion is walk around with a video camera and take clear video of everything you think is insured. If there is a description of the rock, then say it on video. Also, video everything about the equipment, including serial number, model and show that it is is working order (power it on). Of course, keep the video in a different location.
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 31, 2019 10:46:47 GMT -5
I look at the value question a bit differently. Typically, the value of the rock or crystal is mostly in its quality. Knowing exactly where it came from is interesting and for some collectors really important. For example, some people collect one good rock from each mine - so they won't buy unless they know it is one they don't have. However, I am not sure how much extra value is added (unless of course it adds to the rare factor). On the other hand, it does add to the confidence factor that the rock is as described (known minerals from a well documented site). Now, the problem comes up about trust. There can be a number of reasons that the location info is wrong. Some places allow you to collect, but not sell. Other times, the rocks were acquired during a sneak into areas they were not allowed. Rocks get mixed up on collecting trips (this happens to me). Sometimes, the collector just wants to keep his spot secret. There are folks who import rocks and try to sell them as local. However, If you know the mines and area, you can sometimes look at a sample and know with a high degree of confidence the mine it came from. For instance, during the gold rush, it was difficult for highgraders to sell their stolen gold because miners could look at the nuggets and know what creek they came from. Therefore, many of the "lost mine" stories: "I found this gold in a remote canyon and don't know how to get back there". Unless they tried this far far away, they got caught and faced miner's justice. Regarding insurance purposes - those guys will take your money and may later give you a hard time if something bad happens. They will make you prove your loss. One suggestion is walk around with a video camera and take clear video of everything you think is insured. If there is a description of the rock, then say it on video. Also, video everything about the equipment, including serial number, model and show that it is is working order (power it on). Of course, keep the video in a different location. Video is a good idea. That's what we did. |
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Post by stardiamond on Oct 31, 2019 12:02:02 GMT -5
I'm dealing with the issue to some extent. I list items that I am not sure of the material as I think this is what this is and ask for feedback from buyers. I know 95% of my material. Material that I am not sure of is material I don't have a lot of. Sometimes a one of. For Morgan Hill, I have light and dark. I identify both as MH. hookedonrocks might identify the lighter more precisely since he knows the material. Guadalupe gives me id problems because it has so many different appearances and my wife bought it years ago.
I also refer to the person I bought the material from for an ID. Many materials have different looks.
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