rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 6, 2019 14:12:36 GMT -5
I have been intrigued by the idea of making my own HDPE barrels a la jamesp 's design. I used to tumble with lortone 6 lb barrels and I found them obnoxious to open, and to clean the lip before resealing. Also the rubber on the lids is thin and wore through where the bolt heads in the centers of the lids are. Finally, I would like to get rough tumbling done faster and I am interested in trying coarse grit, thick slurry and faster barrel speeds. Buying a DP 10 lb mini-sonic for polishing. These barrels will likely just be for rough grind. I looked around for the HDPE reducer and end cap, but the cheapest option I came across was about $70 in supplies for the 6" and $120 for 8". I was near pulling the trigger when I came up with another idea. I was able to scrounge a short section of 6" and another of 8" for free from someone I know who works with that material. So I thought what about just using two fernco end caps on a section of pipe? The clamp tightening bolts would interfere with the barrel rolling on the drive shaft. So I decided I will simply build up the center of the drive shaft so the bolts don't hit. I decided to take a fernco straight connector and remove the clamps to use as a sleeve over the pipe to serve two purposes: get closer to raising the bolts from the drive shaft, and hopefully reduce noise. This leaves me about 3/8" I will need to bulk a section of the drive shaft by to avoid hitting the bolt heads:  I decided to caulk one end cap in place to hopefully keep grit and small stones from getting wedged in the seam at the end of the pipe. I am hoping it is flexible enough to stay sealed if the cap bulges from gas build up:   Here's the end result. The pipe is just long enough to leave a gap for my fingers to remove the cap easily:  Please don't scold me for using my vehicle as a work table. Just cleared enough stuff from my garage to not have to park in the snow and negative temps this winter:   Hoping I haven't overlooked any fatal flaws with this design. Feel free to say what you think. Material costs: 6" HDPE pipe, 10" length - a few tumbled stones 6" Qwik Cap x2 - $4 ea, $8 total. Www.Supplyhouse.com6" fernco coupling - 9.75. Www.Supplyhouse.comCaulk - free leftover Total cost: $17.75 Haven't done an 8" yet but if I like this one, it shouldn't be over $50. I have off brand end caps priced at $10/ea. Not sure about a good clay source around here (west central Idaho) for slurry thickener. Has anyone tried using either powdered bentonite or kaolin 50 lb bags from bulkapothecary.com? They run around $35 and $50, respectively. I am still getting parts together for the tumbler base but I'll keep you all posted. |
|
rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 6, 2019 14:25:46 GMT -5
Oh, and I forgot to say THANKS to jamesp for all the inspiration and information! They say imitation is a form of flattery and this is really only a slight tweak on his work. |
|
zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
|
Post by zarguy on Nov 6, 2019 15:25:07 GMT -5
rockbiter I tried www.supplydepot.com & get an unused website with links to other sites. Can you check the address & provide what works? TIA Lynn
|
|
oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,578
|
Post by oldschoolrocker on Nov 6, 2019 16:01:00 GMT -5
One potential issue I can see popping up is the barrel walking down the shaft and clamps catching the built up part of shaft. But as long as have way to keep barrel from walking then looks good to me
|
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2019 16:32:02 GMT -5
If you glued one end on then you would only have to worry about the hose clamp on one end and not both.
Would that help?
Welcome to the forum and I look forward to updates (pictures!!) on your build.
|
|
rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 6, 2019 17:23:06 GMT -5
rockbiter I tried www.supplydepot.com & get an unused website with links to other sites. Can you check the address & provide what works? TIA Lynn My bad, it's supplyhouse.com. I'll edit the post. |
|
rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 6, 2019 17:30:25 GMT -5
One potential issue I can see popping up is the barrel walking down the shaft and clamps catching the built up part of shaft. But as long as have way to keep barrel from walking then looks good to me I have a bunch of 1" fixed direction ball bearing caster wheels coming for $1 each. I figure I'll use one on each end to keep the barrels in place, as well as two under one side of each barrel in place of a free spinning shaft. Hope that makes sense. |
|
rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 6, 2019 17:38:25 GMT -5
If you glued one end on then you would only have to worry about the hose clamp on one end and not both. Would that help? Welcome to the forum and I look forward to updates (pictures!!) on your build. Nice idea, I hadn't thought of that. However I'm worried that it would not end up making a big difference in design and could result in the caulk failing and the cap blowing off from gas, making a big mess. Maybe if I had used glue instead of caulk, but what's done is done on this barrel. |
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Nov 6, 2019 18:18:53 GMT -5
Maybe if I had used glue instead of caulk, but what's done is done on this barrel. You might be able to put some water inside the barrel and then put it in a pot of water on the stove and heat it up to soften that silicone enough to take it apart. Disclaimer: Never tried it - at your own risk - just a thought. Anyway, looking forward to seeing what you come up with! |
|
oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,578
|
Post by oldschoolrocker on Nov 6, 2019 19:39:26 GMT -5
One potential issue I can see popping up is the barrel walking down the shaft and clamps catching the built up part of shaft. But as long as have way to keep barrel from walking then looks good to me I have a bunch of 1" fixed direction ball bearing caster wheels coming for $1 each. I figure I'll use one on each end to keep the barrels in place, as well as two under one side of each barrel in place of a free spinning shaft. Hope that makes sense. Yep, makes sense. Only brought it up because when I threw my tumbler together I didnt account for barrel movement down the shaft and wasnt much issue rolling 3lb barrels on it. But became bigger issue when added 6lb barrels as they walked quite a big more until they pushed the 3lb ones off shaft. But like I said, I sorta threw mine together without adequate plans/parts. Sounds like you have well thought out plans for your build and look forward to seeing it completed. |
|
|
|
Post by toiv0 on Nov 6, 2019 20:33:52 GMT -5
I get fire clay in 50 lb bags from a ceramic supply. If you are near a big city its cheap but if they have to ship hang on to your wallet.
|
|
rockbiter
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 60
|
Post by rockbiter on Nov 7, 2019 20:52:36 GMT -5
I get fire clay in 50 lb bags from a ceramic supply. If you are near a big city its cheap but if they have to ship hang on to your wallet. I'm not sure if Boise counts as a big city but maybe I can find something down there. Does fire clay make a good slurry? |
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Nov 7, 2019 20:56:13 GMT -5
Good ole fashioned cat litter works for the slurry .
|
|
RWA3006
Cave Dweller 
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,594 
|
Post by RWA3006 on Nov 7, 2019 21:49:11 GMT -5
rockbiter welcome to RTH. I started using clay which appears to my eye to be bentonite as a slurry thickener for my rough grinds. I dig it out of the badlands on my trips rockhounding to Southwestern Wyoming and Southern Utah. It's abundant and free in the areas I like to haunt and it works very well for me.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 8, 2019 6:35:16 GMT -5
Very impressed(and flattered) by you barrel rockbiter. Both from cost and durability and ease of construction. The 2 ended Fernco cap defied me because I could not get by the band clamps sticking out and hitting the shafts. You will solve that by making a step in the shafts for clearance, damn why didn't I think of that !!! It is the HDPE fittings that cost so much. Pipe is super cheap. Contractors have a hard time disposing of left over HDPE pipe sections. The dumps hate the stuff. Those 6 inch Fernco's are some serious hunks of thick rubber. Lot's of bang for the buck. They will last a very long time with the most aggressive silicon carbide. With one on each side you will have double protection from gas blow outs. The 6 inch Fernco can bulge up to 2 inches without blowing off when only using one band clamp. I think you will find the silicon caulk to be short lived, this should not matter. It is the last coarse grit run before doing 220 that counts most for grit breakdown. On the last coarse silicon carbide addition you can simply remove both caps and clean them thouroughy to remove any hidden particles and do the last break down run. Make allowance for lateral barrel movement when(not if) the caps bulge so that the steps in your shafts don't hit the band clamp screws. Especially if you are running 2 or more barrels against each other. Are you aware that SDR 11 and SDR 8 pipe is really thick ? Like an inch thick. It would be interesting to turn steps down on the end 2 inches of the thick pipe using a lathe and buy a smaller Fernco to fit on the steps lowering the band clamp screws from hitting the shafts. Fernco makes all sizes of end caps for clay pipe, cast iron pipe, various schedules of pipe, etc. Check out my friend's thick walled HDPE. Lots of meat to cut a step on the ends and loose the 8 screws, go to your Fernco trick.  |
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,589
|
Post by jamesp on Nov 8, 2019 7:17:17 GMT -5
If you glued one end on then you would only have to worry about the hose clamp on one end and not both. Would that help? Welcome to the forum and I look forward to updates (pictures!!) on your build. This is an intriguing idea. French may know of an evil glue that would dissolve weld HDPE to FERNCO rubber cap material. If you can loose one of the clamps to make the step in the drive shafts simpler. Consider maybe 12 short countersink head wood screws driven in around the perimeter of the Fernco cap say at the groove for the band clamp. That HDPE pipe is thick enough to accept screws. Or a yet tighter fitting Fernco cap that was heated to make it expand and fit super tight on the end of the pipe. Rubber expands a lot when boiled in water. Shrinks back at room temp. Fernco may have a slightly smaller tight fitting end cap. Maybe adding a few screws... There is such a thing as band clamps that have no screw assembly, they have a clip that is pinched with a special tool. Used on hydraulic hoses. Rotary barrels do have a way of causing grit to infiltrate into any crack or sealed surface. No grit will infiltrate a good HDPE weld, it is said to be stronger than the virgin pipe. If you had say 5/8" or 3/4" weldable HDPE plate you could cut a flat circle and weld it to one end. I did look into this to avoid buying the HDPE end cap. The problem was the high cost of HDPE plate. This was unfortunate. The plate was crazy expensive, the pipe is dead cheap go figure. I even tried cutting a piece of pipe down it's length and flattening it with heat to make a plate. Could not get the memory out of it. I was successful in welding a thick HDPE cheapo Walmart butcher block onto HDPE pipe but was not confident the weld would hold the brutal tumbling treatment.. |
|
NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
|
Post by NRG on Nov 9, 2019 21:26:35 GMT -5
If you glued one end on then you would only have to worry about the hose clamp on one end and not both. Would that help? Welcome to the forum and I look forward to updates (pictures!!) on your build. Glue for polyethylene? Do you know of one? |
|
NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
|
Post by NRG on Nov 9, 2019 21:28:39 GMT -5
I get fire clay in 50 lb bags from a ceramic supply. If you are near a big city its cheap but if they have to ship hang on to your wallet. Kitty litter is cheap and everywhere. Small bags for $3 at walmart |
|
|
|
Post by rockpickerforever on Nov 9, 2019 23:01:29 GMT -5
If you glued one end on then you would only have to worry about the hose clamp on one end and not both. Would that help? Welcome to the forum and I look forward to updates (pictures!!) on your build. Glue for polyethylene? Do you know of one? Is this what you mean? HDPE GLUE. Pro-Poly is a high strength polyethylene adhesive for coupling of HDPE pipe using standard PVC couplings, HDPE couplings and other non-standard materials. Pro-Poly is also used for bonding polypropylene, LDPE, ABS, polycarbonate, nylon, fiberglass, steel and aluminum. HDPE glue |
|
NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,687
|
Post by NRG on Nov 9, 2019 23:27:05 GMT -5
Glue for polyethylene? Do you know of one? Is this what you mean? HDPE GLUE. Pro-Poly is a high strength polyethylene adhesive for coupling of HDPE pipe using standard PVC couplings, HDPE couplings and other non-standard materials. Pro-Poly is also used for bonding polypropylene, LDPE, ABS, polycarbonate, nylon, fiberglass, steel and aluminum. HDPE glueInteresting. Your Google Fu is certainly black belt 13th degree. Thanks Jean! |
|
