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Post by toiv0 on Mar 7, 2020 11:08:43 GMT -5
Was just reading an article about water glass. I think I remember stardiamond used this to attach rocks too small to vice up to boards for sawing. First does anyone use this method and is it better than wood glue? Second where would you get it and what is the process, does it come in liquid or powder, ready to use? |
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Post by toiv0 on Mar 7, 2020 11:11:42 GMT -5
This was suppose go in the general rocks section. rockjunquie |
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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 7, 2020 11:13:47 GMT -5
done
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Post by toiv0 on Mar 7, 2020 12:09:09 GMT -5
Thank you
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 7, 2020 12:34:59 GMT -5
I can't help with the water glass as I have not tried it. I have been using wood glue for the past 6 years without a failure. I am cutting 4 end cuts today that I glued to boards a few days ago. I usually shoot for a 4 day cure before sawing.
Edit: I do use a very liberal amount of glue to try to fill gaps and get good coverage. 2x4's are not always 100% flat. If the board is a bit cupped or bowed I want enough glue to keep contact.
Chuck
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Post by HankRocks on Mar 7, 2020 13:18:57 GMT -5
I also use Wood Glue, interior rated so that it will soak off easier in water. Usually let the glue dry for over a week or more. I glue in sets of 10, one set in the cutting batch, one in the drying batch. Been using the same pieces of wood for over 2 years now. In that time the pieces of wood have probably gone thru 20 to 30 or more cycles. So between the glue and the oil the wood is probably preserved and will last for a lot of years impervious to rot, termites etc...
The couple of failures I have had were rocks that did not have flat cut sides and the glue did not have enough contact surface.
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 7, 2020 13:29:12 GMT -5
I use it as you described, to glue small rocks/end cuts to a piece of 2x4 so I can get the remaining slabs out of it. I haven't tried anything else, for no other reason than from what I read it seemed to be the least likely solution to fail, but I know there are certainly a lot of variables (such as what coolant you use in your saw). In my case I'm running food grade mineral oil and have used this method to cut better than 100 slabs from small rocks and end cuts without a failure yet (knocking on wood). I bought a pint on Amazon for around $8, just to give it a try and I've hardly put a dent in it as you only need enough to thinly coat the faced rock, which is a few drops in most cases. Whether its needed or not, I just make sure the whole face is coated, usually by slightly twisting it after pressing it to the board, but not using so much that excess runs off the piece of wood. You can get it at the hardware store, sold as a concrete sealer, and number of other places for pretty cheap - less than $20/gallon, and as I mentioned I've maybe used 4 tablespoons for dozens of rocks. Once I'm down to the last slab stuck to the board, I just toss it in a bucket of soapy water and the slab usually just falls off after a few hours (or whenever I get around to checking on it).
It cures fast, but I always give it an overnight before I toss it in the saw.
You can also make it yourself if you save those little dessicant packets that they throw in boxes (usually electronic equipment) for shipping, I was just too lazy, I'd spend more in time making it than buying it already prepared.
Just sharing my experience, for what it's worth. Seems like other solutions like what Chuck mentioned work just as well, I just haven't tried anything else.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Mar 7, 2020 13:52:27 GMT -5
I use it and concur fully with jasperfanatic 's description. I've also used it with larger roughs that present a challenge to clamp. Water glass (aka sodium silicate solution) is relatively thick and syrupy, so your piece of rough can still have a somewhat "rough" side and be successfully adhered to a wood block. Thanks, jasperfanatic , I didn't know that those desiccant beads are sodium silicate. I'll start saving them. |
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,039 
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Post by gemfeller on Mar 7, 2020 15:33:12 GMT -5
I've used it successfully for years. I use oil in my saw, don't know how water would work.
1. As mentioned above, let it cure at least 24 hours. I prefer 2 or 3 days' curing time, especially on large surfaces that might take longer to dry.
2. Do your sawing within a few days' time of cementing. I've noticed that after a month or so the sodium silicate begins to desiccate and crumble, weakening the joint.
3. To remove the end cut just toss the board into a bucket of water and let it soak a day or two. It should release very easily. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Mar 7, 2020 16:39:53 GMT -5
To make your own solution from dessicant packets, do you just dissolve them in water until it reaches the desired consistency?
Is there an optimal consistency for the solution? |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Mar 7, 2020 18:20:17 GMT -5
To make your own solution from dessicant packets, do you just dissolve them in water until it reaches the desired consistency?
Is there an optimal consistency for the solution?
I would describe my purchased solution as having the consistency of cold maple syrup. In other words, right when the syrup is removed from a refrigerator.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Mar 7, 2020 18:39:41 GMT -5
Thanks, Gary.
This is one of those things I've always wanted to try someday. Maybe now I will. Someday.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,357
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Post by quartz on Mar 8, 2020 22:47:59 GMT -5
I've used both wood glue and waterglass with no failures. I put the last cut and 2x4 in hot water, heated with a hot plate, releases in a few minutes.
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rixrocks
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2019
Posts: 51
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Post by rixrocks on Mar 10, 2020 18:04:04 GMT -5
I use sodium silicate (water glass) and it works good for me. I bought a gallon of it at a chemical store locally but I think you can find it in various stores in smaller quantities. I use alcohol to clean both the rock and the 2x4 to remove any oil then I use a popsicle stick to coat the rock generously with water glass, place it on the 2x4, then clamp it with a squeeze clamp and let it set 3 days before cutting. The best part of it is when you get down to the last slab, drop it in a bucket of water and the next morning it's usually laying on the bottom of the bucket and the 2x4 is floating. Sometimes you have to just twist it from the board but it releases easy. When I used wood glue, I almost always lost the last slab because I couldn't get the slab from the 2x4. Problem solved.
One thing I've found is that it has a shelf life to hold the rock. I have a few that I glued on last fall and they are falling off the board now. So now I don't glue them until I plan On cutting them.
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Post by stardiamond on Mar 10, 2020 18:49:36 GMT -5
I soak the 2x4 in detergent to get the remaining rock off. I put the board on a newspaper, pour the liquid glass on it and set the rock in the puddle. I wait 2 days before putting it in the saw. My confidence level is high when gluing larger flat pieces to the board. Not as high with smaller uneven pieces.
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Post by 1dave on Mar 12, 2020 7:56:58 GMT -5
Water glass Is used in making cardboard. I used a lot of it back in my sealing boxes days.
A superintendent on a powerhouse I worked on insisted on using it as a lubricant for pulling cables in 4 inch conduit. It started out slick, but dried to a crackly mess. We switched to Flax Soap.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Mar 12, 2020 10:05:50 GMT -5
Water glass Is used in making cardboard. I used a lot of it back in my sealing boxes days. A superintendent on a powerhouse I worked on insisted on using it as a lubricant for pulling cables in 4 inch conduit. It started out slick, but dried to a crackly mess. We switched to Flax Soap.
I used it just a few weeks ago to assemble a cardboard sleeve to fit between the upper and lower buckets of my used oil filter. I was surprised at how fast it worked. Water absorption must be the the cause of that speed, leaving much of the sodium silicate behind in the actual bond.
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