|
Post by arghvark on Mar 8, 2020 14:15:43 GMT -5
Several folks have mentioned using sugar for padding and thickening in a vibratory tumbler. I've been using borax til now.
Lots of what I self collect has quite a few pits, fractures, tiny vugs, etc. Borax was just a huge pain. Works great if your rocks are perfect coming out of the grind, but incredibly annoying to clean if you have any imperfections.
Used 1/4 cup sugar on polish stage of a batch, was encouraged.
Ran a batch from 120/220 to finish using 1/4 cup sugar in each round. That batch was mostly "2nd rate" stuff with lots of imperfections as well as several pieces of material which tends to undercut. Also ran each stage a bit longer than usual.
WOW. Big difference, and great shine results. (Better shine may just be due to longer run times.)
1. Much easier to maintain thickness without having to add water all the time. 2. Running sugar in all stages seems to clean out any residual left in imperfections after the grind stage. 3. Material that has a tendency to undetcut (banded rhyolite, local petrified wood) has much less visible undercutting. It's still there, but much, much less visible. 4. Super easy cleaning after polish stage. Everything just rinses out.
I'm sold. Next up, a batch of obsidian using sugar. It may cushion less than borax so should be interesting.
|
|
EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
|
Post by EricD on Mar 8, 2020 14:26:33 GMT -5
Pretty much ditto here. I don't use any in 220, 1T in ao500, 3T~4T in polish to slow it wayyyy down.
Glad you tried it!
|
|
Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
|
Post by Benathema on Mar 8, 2020 14:31:55 GMT -5
Also applicable to final stages in the rotary as well. Can get a syrup consistency that helps cushion the rocks in addition to ceramics/plastics - helps carry the polish too. Yea, a good hot water rinse at the end cleans it all out/off the rocks.
|
|
|
Post by knave on Mar 8, 2020 15:51:42 GMT -5
1/4 cup sugar for how much rock?
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
|
Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2020 15:56:25 GMT -5
Final rinse with medium hot water and Cascade Platinum spot remover dishwashing soap. Say in a 1/2 gallon of hot water with 1/2 teaspoon of Cascade, squeeze and work rocks in you hands under water, then rinse rinse rinse until they squeak between your fingers. Will have ZERO spots and very shiny rocks if polish is done. Machine dishwashing soaps have anti-sudsing agents and spot removing chemicals. Good to add a teaspoon 5 to 60 minutes before cleaning out and doing final rinse. Probably environmental safe since it is used on food handling utensils.
|
|
|
Post by arghvark on Mar 8, 2020 17:24:01 GMT -5
1/4 cup sugar for how much rock? I use a Loto. So about 4 lbs total, rock and ceramics.
|
|
|
Post by joshuamcduffie on Mar 8, 2020 20:35:52 GMT -5
Has anyone tried either Karo syrup or Spenda? I’m worried about the weight on some of my rocks, but not for others,
|
|
|
Post by knave on Mar 8, 2020 20:37:17 GMT -5
Lol
|
|
|
Post by knave on Mar 8, 2020 20:37:35 GMT -5
Only raw stevia will do for my vegan rocks
|
|
Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
|
Post by Benathema on Mar 8, 2020 20:45:07 GMT -5
Organic, right? Free range stevia. I want to make sure they had a good life before I button the barrel up.
Non GMO too. Don't want my fossils DNA being modified. That's some Jurassic Park level BS.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Mar 8, 2020 20:46:53 GMT -5
Several folks have mentioned using sugar for padding and thickening in a vibratory tumbler. I've been using borax til now. Lots of what I self collect has quite a few pits, fractures, tiny vugs, etc. Borax was just a huge pain. Works great if your rocks are perfect coming out of the grind, but incredibly annoying to clean if you have any imperfections. Used 1/4 cup sugar on polish stage of a batch, was encouraged. Ran a batch from 120/220 to finish using 1/4 cup sugar in each round. That batch was mostly "2nd rate" stuff with lots of imperfections as well as several pieces of material which tends to undercut. Also ran each stage a bit longer than usual. WOW. Big difference, and great shine results. (Better shine may just be due to longer run times.) 1. Much easier to maintain thickness without having to add water all the time. 2. Running sugar in all stages seems to clean out any residual left in imperfections after the grind stage. 3. Material that has a tendency to undetcut (banded rhyolite, local petrified wood) has much less visible undercutting. It's still there, but much, much less visible. 4. Super easy cleaning after polish stage. Everything just rinses out. I'm sold. Next up, a batch of obsidian using sugar. It may cushion less than borax so should be interesting. This is an interesting concept for me. I've spoken with the head guy at Lot-O, and he was curious about why Borax was being used in my tumbles, as he seemed to imply that Borax might make things more slippery - adding to the issue of material not circulating well. Based upon my talk with him, it would seem that friction has an impact. Considering I've had issues with material moving in a Lot-O in later stages, perhaps this is a solution instead of moving the dowel. I'll have to do some playing. Thanks for the input.
|
|
|
Post by arghvark on Mar 9, 2020 0:05:53 GMT -5
This is an interesting concept for me. I've spoken with the head guy at Lot-O, and he was curious about why Borax was being used in my tumbles, as he seemed to imply that Borax might make things more slippery - adding to the issue of material not circulating well. Based upon my talk with him, it would seem that friction has an impact. Considering I've had issues with material moving in a Lot-O in later stages, perhaps this is a solution instead of moving the dowel. I'll have to do some playing. Thanks for the input. Borax is very sensitive to having the right amount of water. Too much and you make sludge in the bottom, too little and it stops moving. That balance is difficult to maintain without "spritzing" every few hours. Sugar makes it much easier to keep everything moving. This last batch ran 4 days in polish and I never had to add water.
|
|
EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
|
Post by EricD on Mar 9, 2020 14:17:13 GMT -5
This is an interesting concept for me. I've spoken with the head guy at Lot-O, and he was curious about why Borax was being used in my tumbles, as he seemed to imply that Borax might make things more slippery - adding to the issue of material not circulating well. Based upon my talk with him, it would seem that friction has an impact. Considering I've had issues with material moving in a Lot-O in later stages, perhaps this is a solution instead of moving the dowel. I'll have to do some playing. Thanks for the input. Sugar slows the motion considerably. Pretty sure that's not what you're seeking, but it's a lot easier to try than cutting/prying the glue off the dowel!
|
|
jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
|
Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 9, 2020 16:03:49 GMT -5
I'll testify to this being a key ingredient for success as well, though I've only been doing obsidian. Being ultra picky I wouldn't accept any obsidian tumbles that had the slightest pit, micro-fracture, chip, etc...it was perfection or nothing. Big thanks to jamesp for his time not only in messages, but everything posted here with his experience around this when tumbling obsidian and glass. My UV18 doesn't have any way to control speed and I didn't want to invest in more equipment for tumbling, but a recipe largely based on information from his posts lets me turn out flawless obsidian batches every time. I've been using 1Tbs of sugar for each pound of material. Could be my perception, but it does seem to take quite a bit longer for the grit to break down, however a couple extra days for flawless results is a low price! So far, they haven't complained or requested a healthier alternative
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
|
Post by jamesp on Mar 9, 2020 19:12:04 GMT -5
Less sugar and more water will make a thinner slurry. More sugar and less water makes a thicker slurry.
To avoid having to add much water during the run use more sugar and more water. The same viscosity can be had with more sugar and more water or less sugar and less water. In other words, if you accidentally add too much sugar you can thin it by adding water. Or if you add to much water you can thicken it with more sugar.
Borax can cause issues if too much Borax or water is added... within limits. It is not as dissolvable in water as sugar is in water. Solids precipitate out of Borax much quicker. "Borax is very sensitive to having the right amount of water."
Borax may be slicker than sugar, not sure.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Mar 10, 2020 5:41:06 GMT -5
Regarding Borax - be aware where you do your clean outs when using Borax. BAD for pets and bad for lawns. You don't even want a pet to be able to walk in the area that you do a Borax clean out.
|
|
|
Post by knave on Mar 10, 2020 5:42:37 GMT -5
Trying polish with 1/4 cup sugar I see sticky finnigers in my future.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
|
Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 6:42:27 GMT -5
I run 2 tablespoons per pound of rock in a Vibrasonic vibe jasperfanatic knave. But can run 3 tablespoons/lb. by simply adding more water. Much more than 3 tablespoons and liquid begins to accumulate in the bottom. The Vibrasonic seems really powerful so thicker is probably not an issue. The AO 220 run usually gets 2.5 tablespoons sugar per pound for it's 3 day run. Wetter so water only needs adding once. The AO polish run gets 2 tablespoons sugar per pound for it's shorter 12 to 18 hour run. Rarely add water to the polish run. I have found that 2 tablespoons of AO 220 and 2 tablespoons of AO polish per 8 pounds gets the job done much faster than heavier doses of AO when using sugar slurry thickener. Who knows what the minimum AO dose should/can be ? IMO we are overdosing our vibes. It takes a longer time to break down the unneeded/extra AO. Since switching to only 2 tablespoons I had a polish on glass in only 6 hours after 2.5 days in AO 220. By far the quickest pre-polish and polish ever. I am considering 1 tablespoon for the same 8 pounds. Especially for polish. ETA - I forgot, the 6 hour polish happened on a 20F night. The sugar was cold and very thick. Creating more rubbing forces due to sticky slurry.(similar to running sugar dryer/thicker).
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
|
Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 7:02:11 GMT -5
Has anyone tried either Karo syrup or Spenda? I’m worried about the weight on some of my rocks, but not for others, Karo is just as fattening as sugar. But it costs much more. Works like a charm though for slurry thickener. As does Aunt Jemima...
|
|
|
Post by joshuamcduffie on Mar 10, 2020 7:15:34 GMT -5
Has anyone tried either Karo syrup or Spenda? I’m worried about the weight on some of my rocks, but not for others, Karo is just as fattening as sugar. But it costs much more. Works like a charm though for slurry thickener. As does Aunt Jemima... James, I am surprised you don't have a ridgeback-powered antique cane mill set up for full scale syrup production.
|
|