jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 7:19:36 GMT -5
Karo is just as fattening as sugar. But it costs much more. Works like a charm though for slurry thickener. As does Aunt Jemima... James, I am surprised you don't have a ridgeback-powered antique cane mill set up for full scale syrup production. Note extreme energy levels joshuamcduffie.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Mar 10, 2020 7:24:07 GMT -5
Well, at least they are cute.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 7:33:36 GMT -5
This is an interesting concept for me. I've spoken with the head guy at Lot-O, and he was curious about why Borax was being used in my tumbles, as he seemed to imply that Borax might make things more slippery - adding to the issue of material not circulating well. Based upon my talk with him, it would seem that friction has an impact. Considering I've had issues with material moving in a Lot-O in later stages, perhaps this is a solution instead of moving the dowel. I'll have to do some playing. Thanks for the input. Borax is very sensitive to having the right amount of water. Too much and you make sludge in the bottom, too little and it stops moving. That balance is difficult to maintain without "spritzing" every few hours. Sugar makes it much easier to keep everything moving. This last batch ran 4 days in polish and I never had to add water. 3 and 4 days happens here too. No water for long periods. However, when the hot season comes beware of faster dehydration arghvark. For years I ran the vibe in a hot Georgia greenhouse that often approached 120F mid day summers. Water once a day then. No way I could run Borax in those conditions.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 7:34:28 GMT -5
Well, at least they are cute. Useless as teets on a bore hog Joshua lol.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 7:44:07 GMT -5
Also applicable to final stages in the rotary as well. Can get a syrup consistency that helps cushion the rocks in addition to ceramics/plastics - helps carry the polish too. Yea, a good hot water rinse at the end cleans it all out/off the rocks. I did SiC 30/46, SiC 220, AO 500 and AO polish for years in the rotaries Benathema. I used clay in 30/46 and 220. Used sugar in AO 500 and AO polish. (and add some pea gravel) I did use a lot of sugar to thicken in rotary step 3 and 4 though. Much much less needed in vibe for same amount of rocks.
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 10, 2020 9:37:02 GMT -5
For my 14lb Viking I do 1/2C water, 1/2C sugar from 220g, 600g. I also did this for my AO polish, but it seems the polish may have sunk into the water and all my rocks are still rolling fast without a super thick coating like usual.
For my Lot-O and Mini-Sonic I just had borax and polish and they’re thick and rolling slow as they should. Will def not use all the water for polish next time(in the Viking).
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 9:59:01 GMT -5
For my 14lb Viking I do 1/2C water, 1/2C sugar from 220g, 600g. I also did this for my AO polish, but it seems the polish may have sunk into the water and all my rocks are still rolling fast without a super thick coating like usual. For my Lot-O and Mini-Sonic I just had borax and polish and they’re thick and rolling slow as they should. Will def not use all the water for polish next time(in the Viking). A cup is 16 tablespoons Jimi. Sounds like you are using just over 1/2 tablespoon per pound. 8 tablespoons/14 pounds rock. My AO 14,000 works well with 2 tablespoons of sugar per pound of rock. BUT, I have to dissolve the sugar in 100% before sprinkling in the polish. How much (AO ?) 220, (AO ?) 600 and polish do you use for 14 pounds ?
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 10, 2020 10:21:45 GMT -5
For my 14lb Viking I do 1/2C water, 1/2C sugar from 220g, 600g. I also did this for my AO polish, but it seems the polish may have sunk into the water and all my rocks are still rolling fast without a super thick coating like usual. For my Lot-O and Mini-Sonic I just had borax and polish and they’re thick and rolling slow as they should. Will def not use all the water for polish next time(in the Viking). A cup is 16 tablespoons Jimi. Sounds like you are using just over 1/2 tablespoon per pound. 8 tablespoons/14 pounds rock. My AO 14,000 works well with 2 tablespoons of sugar per pound of rock. BUT, I have to dissolve the sugar in 100% before sprinkling in the polish. How much (AO ?) 220, (AO ?) 600 and polish do you use for 14 pounds ? I’ve just been using 2Tbsp of 220/600/Polish. The 1/2C sugar I feel works best for me. A full cup and it sludges up way too much for my liking. For my polish I think I just used way too much water (well I know I did).
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 10, 2020 11:43:27 GMT -5
I have been using 2 tablespoons of 220 and 2 tablespoons of polish for 8 pounds instead of 14 pounds rock broseph82. Almost half as much and getting faster pre-polishes and polishes go figure. Soon going to try 1 tablespoon for 8 pounds of rock. Could be settings, who knows. I keep trying less and less abrasive and getting faster results. Are you using AO 220 and AO 600 or SiC's ?
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MommaGem
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2019
Posts: 312
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Post by MommaGem on Mar 10, 2020 12:13:25 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes! Could not agree more. Sugar in the vibe is a game changer. My very first frustration with the Borax in the vibe was exactly your experience - such a PAIN to clean. Borax seemed to "seal" polish into any imperfections and it wouldn't clean out even with a toothbrush. Then I did Labradorite, Sunstone and now Obsidian with sugar and has made all the difference - great tumble with less undercutting and bruising, and so easy to clean after polish
ETA: I've been using "heaping" 1 Tbsp of sugar per lb of barrel capacity. I use the TV-5, so it's about 5 Tbsp
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Post by arghvark on Mar 10, 2020 12:45:51 GMT -5
Borax is very sensitive to having the right amount of water. Too much and you make sludge in the bottom, too little and it stops moving. That balance is difficult to maintain without "spritzing" every few hours. Sugar makes it much easier to keep everything moving. This last batch ran 4 days in polish and I never had to add water. 3 and 4 days happens here too. No water for long periods. However, when the hot season comes beware of faster dehydration arghvark. For years I ran the vibe in a hot Georgia greenhouse that often approached 120F mid day summers. Water once a day then. No way I could run Borax in those conditions. Absolutely! The loto is in my garage, definitely 110°F+ in the summer, and extremely low humidity. Ran borax all last summer, but super annoying. Will still have to pay attention with sugar, but looking forward to it being less annoying.
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Post by arghvark on Mar 10, 2020 12:55:45 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes! Could not agree more. Sugar in the vibe is a game changer. My very first frustration with the Borax in the vibe was exactly your experience - such a PAIN to clean. Borax seemed to "seal" polish into any imperfections and it wouldn't clean out even with a toothbrush. Then I did Labradorite, Sunstone and now Obsidian with sugar and has made all the difference - great tumble with less undercutting and bruising, and so easy to clean after polish
ETA: I've been using "heaping" 1 Tbsp of sugar per lb of barrel capacity. I use the TV-5, so it's about 5 Tbsp
With borax I did have decent success cleaning out imperfections by (1) end of polish, couple hours with more water and some dishwasher detergent, (2) the usual wash, then (3) about a 3 day soak in water before a final wash under pressure. Just annoying. With sugar, just wash 'em.
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 11, 2020 12:51:07 GMT -5
Has anyone tried either Karo syrup or Spenda? I’m worried about the weight on some of my rocks, but not for others, The slurry tastes much better if you use Karo Syrup, not so good with sugar or the artificial stuff.
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 11, 2020 14:27:10 GMT -5
We've been trying the 🌽 syrup with softer stones, still dialing it in.
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Post by broseph82 on Mar 11, 2020 14:46:06 GMT -5
I have been using 2 tablespoons of 220 and 2 tablespoons of polish for 8 pounds instead of 14 pounds rock broseph82. Almost half as much and getting faster pre-polishes and polishes go figure. Soon going to try 1 tablespoon for 8 pounds of rock. Could be settings, who knows. I keep trying less and less abrasive and getting faster results. Are you using AO 220 and AO 600 or SiC's ? Sic 220/600 and AO polish
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Post by aDave on Mar 11, 2020 16:27:41 GMT -5
For you folks not liking the cleanup of Borax laden slurry in your stages, how much are you using? When I first tried the "standard" Lot-O recipe, I started with the recommended one tablespoon and found it to be a bit too much for my liking. Things got to be pretty thick, and it was definitely kind of a pain to clean.
Since then, I've cut back to two level teaspoons, and I've had no cleaning problems/thickening whatsoever. There's a mild slurry which coats the rocks, but I've never had any issues with cleaning afterwards. Just a bit of dish soap and water to start the cleaning inside of the running vibe. I've not done a plain burnish/cleaning stage since.
I will admit, I may have to give the sugar a try just to see if there are any changes to how the material circulates.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Mar 11, 2020 19:30:25 GMT -5
Sounds like this whole sugar business is pretty sweet.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Mar 12, 2020 6:09:20 GMT -5
For you folks not liking the cleanup of Borax laden slurry in your stages, how much are you using? When I first tried the "standard" Lot-O recipe, I started with the recommended one tablespoon and found it to be a bit too much for my liking. Things got to be pretty thick, and it was definitely kind of a pain to clean. Since then, I've cut back to two level teaspoons, and I've had no cleaning problems/thickening whatsoever. There's a mild slurry which coats the rocks, but I've never had any issues with cleaning afterwards. Just a bit of dish soap and water to start the cleaning inside of the running vibe. I've not done a plain burnish/cleaning stage since. I will admit, I may have to give the sugar a try just to see if there are any changes to how the material circulates. My biggest problem with Borax was caused by SEUS heat for me Dave - concretion. I found that machine dishwasher detergent removed the Borax easily. No problem removing it unless it dried during AO steps. The Borax simply dried out too quickly causing aluminum oxide pre-polish and polish to concrete in cracks and divots. In most cases I could not remove the AO/Borax concretion. Where as sugar dissolves much better and allows the AO to fall out of the cracks and divots when it concretes. And sugar slurry is way easier to keep moist - night and day. Many mornings I have let the rotating action to come to a complete standstill and simply add water to start it back. If you start with lots of sugar you can add lots of water till the action slows to a nice slow rate which stops all Mexican Jumping bean action - rocks rattling on top of stack(causes frosting). The machine dishwashing detergent makes the rocks squeaky clean with hot water in minutes. No spots at all. Conclusion was to switch to sugar primarily because it stays moist and can be cleaned when a concretion happens. Hope this helps.
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jasonshort
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2019
Posts: 113
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Post by jasonshort on Mar 13, 2020 8:37:06 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes! Could not agree more. Sugar in the vibe is a game changer. My very first frustration with the Borax in the vibe was exactly your experience - such a PAIN to clean. Borax seemed to "seal" polish into any imperfections and it wouldn't clean out even with a toothbrush. Then I did Labradorite, Sunstone and now Obsidian with sugar and has made all the difference - great tumble with less undercutting and bruising, and so easy to clean after polish
ETA: I've been using "heaping" 1 Tbsp of sugar per lb of barrel capacity. I use the TV-5, so it's about 5 Tbsp
I use a TV 5 and have had problems with borox. Can you help me with a recipie with sugar? How much do you use for 120/220, 500 and AO polish? Do you do a burnish step with... Thanks
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MommaGem
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2019
Posts: 312
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Post by MommaGem on Mar 13, 2020 9:29:22 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes! Could not agree more. Sugar in the vibe is a game changer. My very first frustration with the Borax in the vibe was exactly your experience - such a PAIN to clean. Borax seemed to "seal" polish into any imperfections and it wouldn't clean out even with a toothbrush. Then I did Labradorite, Sunstone and now Obsidian with sugar and has made all the difference - great tumble with less undercutting and bruising, and so easy to clean after polish
ETA: I've been using "heaping" 1 Tbsp of sugar per lb of barrel capacity. I use the TV-5, so it's about 5 Tbsp
I use a TV 5 and have had problems with borox. Can you help me with a recipie with sugar? How much do you use for 120/220, 500 and AO polish? Do you do a burnish step with... Thanks Absolutely. I use 5 Tbsp of sugar, 2 tsp grit or polish, and 2-4 tsp of water depending on if the rocks are wet or not. I don't burnish with the TV - I put it in a rotary with Dreft soap for an hour or two.
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