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Post by 1dave on Apr 16, 2020 17:08:24 GMT -5
What if . . . We used a minimum of 3 buckets stacked for wear, build tumbler on 45 degree angle so no lid is needed? No gas build up, progress always visible. A rough drawing -
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Post by RocksInNJ on Apr 16, 2020 18:23:48 GMT -5
Well now that’s quite interesting.
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Post by 1dave on Apr 16, 2020 19:14:25 GMT -5
Well now that’s quite interesting. Drill holes instead of buying bearings - motor, pulleys, belt, rods, BIG shims, lumber - Done. EDIT: Need a castor for the bottom of the bucket to keep it from falling off.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Apr 16, 2020 19:17:37 GMT -5
Like a mini homemade cement mixer.
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Post by Starguy on Apr 16, 2020 19:32:52 GMT -5
1dave It would need some flat sides in the barrel. I’m a rotary guy. My grandfather had some similar machines. It might be gear driven. That would be cool. Add a little grease on occasion. Or 90 weight. What a cool idea. jamesp would love this.
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Post by mohs on Apr 16, 2020 21:23:54 GMT -5
rocking rolling idea, dave!
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agatemaggot
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Member since August 2006
Posts: 2,195
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Post by agatemaggot on Apr 16, 2020 23:22:50 GMT -5
That Boat looks like it just might float !
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Post by 1dave on Apr 17, 2020 1:43:56 GMT -5
1dave It would need some flat sides in the barrel. I’m a rotary guy. My grandfather had some similar machines. It might be gear driven. That would be cool. Add a little grease on occasion. Or 90 weight. What a cool idea. jamesp would love this. Cut some plywood and place inside the bucket?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Apr 17, 2020 6:11:48 GMT -5
You make a good point about slant tumblers not being effected by gas. Not sure why slant rock tumblers have not been pursued. Not sure if the slanted action grinds rocks more efficiently. Remove the cover and the whole process can be watched. This slant tumbler is similar 1dave. Instead of 5 gallon buckets it used the lower section of a 60 gallon plastic drum. Never did much rock tumbling testing but it did a few 40 pound loads very well. The slant could be adjusted to lower for aggressive coarse grind, raised to a higher slant for a super tender tumble for polish. Slant it too much and the rocks would slip, so the reason Covington and Viking used those 'faceted' funky barrels on their slant tumblers. The variable slant trick was never pursued by Viking or Covington in their slant tumblers as far as I am aware. A plastic trash bag slipped over the barrel for moisture retention. It was later converted to a steel parts tumbler to remove burrs and rust. Served as a steel parts tumbler for near a decade to this day. Big time saver. It was built entirely of pirated components circa 2008. The main shaft is a 2 inch solid axle. The drive is a 1/4hp face mount 1700 rpm motor with 20:1 gearbox and 5:1 sprocket set for 17 rpm. Had to purchase the sprocket set new. The heavy blue 'thing' had the extended 2 inch axle running thru it and also served as a counterbalance for the barrel. The yellow flange was modified to hold the bottom quarter of a used $4 poly 60 gallon drum which withstood the abuse well. Later converted to tumbling fire pit legs cut 8 inches long from 2 inch sch 5 steel pipe. The long barrel is an 8 inch steel pipe 4 feet long. The chosen abrasive was #57 granite road gravel that it sits on. If in a hurry a smidgen of SiC 60 was tossed in. It tilted forward while running to unload steel parts into milk crates for transport to wash down.
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Post by pauls on Apr 17, 2020 6:26:26 GMT -5
My first tumbler dad built me back in the 1960s was a slanted job, four 1 gallon barrels. Gallon paint tins with the lip removed with a can opener, a gallon milk shake syrup bottle slipped neatly in the can, a quick job with a pocket knife to cut an opening, no need to close it as it was angled like that green thing. The plastic bottles wore out fairly quickly but were free, and easy to replace
Construction. It was a rectangular frame about 1 foot six wide at the bottom and about 2 foot high. it had a bar across six inches from the bottom to make a 1 foot six sized square, each corner had a simple bearing with a shaft that protruded out the back with a pulley, the front had a wooden disk that the paint tins were attached to. The whole frame was tilted back at an angle, about the same angle as the green thing. The space at the bottom under the bar had a reduction gearbox which was a worm and wheel gearbox from a cars steering, the input to that was direct drive from a refrigerator motor. The gearbox had a small pulley and a long belt that went around the pulleys at the back of all the drums. Dad had a mate who worked in an appliance repair shop, they tested heaps of motors and found a 1/4HP fridge motor was the most economical.
It was a wondrous machine, I could stand in front of it and instantly see the state of play with each barrel, add a bit of water or a spoon of grit, so simple. The polish barrel was a bit more fancy as it didn't need to be as big so it was a 1/2 gallon plastic mayonaise jar with a screw lid.
I would love to be able to show a picture but dad moved a few times and it got left behind somewhere. Think something like four of those green things on a slanted frame driven by one motor.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Apr 17, 2020 6:37:22 GMT -5
1dave It would need some flat sides in the barrel. I’m a rotary guy. My grandfather had some similar machines. It might be gear driven. That would be cool. Add a little grease on occasion. Or 90 weight. What a cool idea. jamesp would love this. It would need some flat sides in the barrel to avoid rock slippage Brent. Especially if slanted downwardly more so. This is the vintage Viking slant tumbler Starguy. Check out the serious acceleration and long horizontal scrubbing path the rocks take in this weird faceted barrel. That is some super sticky clay slurry yet the barrel still manages to launch the rocks at fast clip from left to right over the widest section of the barrel. I sure would like to weld up this shape of barrel that would hold 20 pounds instead of 6 pounds. Not sure if I could cut the parts to fit well enough to weld such a beast of a barrel together as it would require 25 funky shaped plates of steel connected at many different angles. Both Viking and Covington has hired some serious engineering fire power to design their equipment. The Viking group must have had a brilliant engineer or a group to build this slant machine and the Vibrasonic back in the day your Dad was collecting these tumblers. This slant machine is one that I would like to enlarge due to the efficient looking action within. It seems to be the most complex rotary barrel on earth lol. A good reason to use slurry from the very start. Note jerk-and-slam action beating rocks in pulses because the rocks are not glued together in a 'blob' with slurry. This Viking slant grinds rocks quickly. Also uses coarse SiC quickly. I wish I could know the design engineer's design reasons for making this barrel the way it was made. The barrel has 6 sides, each side is composed of 4 flats each with an ever steeper angle as you move from the shaft end to the open end. But 3 of the six sides is different than the other 3 sides and are alternating. He is up to something with this design. I believe his design is quite complicated and targets efficient grinding action each revolution. Guessing their are some revolutionary ideas leading to a better and more efficient rotary tumbler. Even after running for days there is no slurry splattered on the cap. My wife uses it to tumble metal lamp parts because the metals develop tremendous gases in less than an hour. The old school mechanical engineers were insane brainiacs and masters of applying powerful mathmaticians. I have a plasma cutter to facilitate making a 20 pound capacity barrel like this. Better if it was a CNC unit to calculate the cuts. And a drive unit to handle a heavy steel barrel full of rocks. That would be this adjustable slant unit: This bowl barrel is so aggressive even at such a slow speed that tumbles must be limited to under 3/4 inch in size to avoid frosting and bruising. Looks harmless but is not. would be great for doing a 100% load of small garnets. Or small pea sized agates.
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Post by 1dave on Apr 17, 2020 10:32:59 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Apr 17, 2020 11:00:02 GMT -5
My first tumbler dad built me back in the 1960s was a slanted job, four 1 gallon barrels. Gallon paint tins with the lip removed with a can opener, a gallon milk shake syrup bottle slipped neatly in the can, a quick job with a pocket knife to cut an opening, no need to close it as it was angled like that green thing. The plastic bottles wore out fairly quickly but were free, and easy to replace Construction. It was a rectangular frame about 1 foot six wide at the bottom and about 2 foot high. it had a bar across six inches from the bottom to make a 1 foot six sized square, each corner had a simple bearing with a shaft that protruded out the back with a pulley, the front had a wooden disk that the paint tins were attached to. The whole frame was tilted back at an angle, about the same angle as the green thing. The space at the bottom under the bar had a reduction gearbox which was a worm and wheel gearbox from a cars steering, the input to that was direct drive from a refrigerator motor. The gearbox had a small pulley and a long belt that went around the pulleys at the back of all the drums. Dad had a mate who worked in an appliance repair shop, they tested heaps of motors and found a 1/4HP fridge motor was the most economical. It was a wondrous machine, I could stand in front of it and instantly see the state of play with each barrel, add a bit of water or a spoon of grit, so simple.The polish barrel was a bit more fancy as it didn't need to be as big so it was a 1/2 gallon plastic mayonaise jar with a screw lid. I would love to be able to show a picture but dad moved a few times and it got left behind somewhere. Think something like four of those green things on a slanted frame driven by one motor. THANKS FOR SHARING THIS! I would love to see at least a mock-up of that unit. Possible?
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
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Post by quartz on Apr 17, 2020 22:48:57 GMT -5
I built an angle adjustable tumbler out of 12" PVC a foot long, driven by a 1/5 H.P. fan motor. The first time I loaded it with rough, kept getting quieter, my wife was nearby and asked what was going on? The more I put in it, the more the rocks held hands 'till the whole works was just running with the barrel. The thing works great for stuff already somewhat rounded.
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Post by 1dave on Apr 18, 2020 2:20:53 GMT -5
I built an angle adjustable tumbler out of 12" PVC a foot long, driven by a 1/5 H.P. fan motor. The first time I loaded it with rough, kept getting quieter, my wife was nearby and asked what was going on? The more I put in it, the more the rocks held hands 'till the whole works was just running with the barrel. The thing works great for stuff already somewhat rounded. Typical RTH question: Do you have a photo?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Apr 18, 2020 4:15:55 GMT -5
This VR-6 unit only spins at 20 rpm but due to the barrel shape tumbles rocks vigorously. It is a 6 sided barrel. Sides 1-3-5 are different from 2-4-6. Sides 1-3-5 set the rocks into a position, sides 2-4-6 'launches' them diagonally across the longest width of the barrel. So each rotation has 3 cycles of set up, and 3 cycles of launch. 20 rpm equates to 28,800 rotations per day. And 86,400 'launches' per day. No idea how this compares to the efficiency of the common rotary but it does grind fast. Rest assured be it slant or a standard rotary barrel on shafts there is plenty of possible modifications to speed the grueling coarse grind. Any machine that delivers 25,000 to 90,000 work cycles per day can be modified in some way to increase efficiency. The beauty of a slant system is a simple adjustment of the slant angle allows the tumbler to go from a flatter angled aggressive grind to a steeper angle for a gentler polish tumble. The heavy engineering for lapidary equipment was mostly done in the heyday of lapidary during the 60's and 70's. Vibe side note: Unfortunately the newer generation of engineers have not put their brilliant skills to work on rock tumblers other than the awesome Lot-O. One of the finest performing rock tumblers ever built. Granted the Lot-O is made out of some cheap materials but it is a performance beast. The closest large Lot-O design would be the Vibrasonic VT-35. Basically the same design but holds 35 pounds of rock and costs a loto more.
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