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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 12:31:42 GMT -5
I’ve been putting a slight taper from the edge of the dome to the back of the cab. Also a very small bevel around the back. I see some are straight, and some are angled the other way. I’m just a bit confused.
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Jun 3, 2020 12:55:54 GMT -5
Evan there will be a lot of variables in the answers to your question. It really depends on the cabber and how they were taught or taught themselves like I did. Not saying this to have a big head or offend anyone who angles girdles - each of us have our own "right way" - but I've sold over 2000 cabochons on Etsy to metal smiths and wire wrappers alike and I've never purposely angled a girdle nor have I ever had a single complaint or request for angled girdles.
I always strive for a perfectly uniform around the stone, 2mm (approx) flat girdle at a 90 degree angle in relation to the cabochon bottom, and I polish said girdle to match the surface of the stone. When I'm nearly done with cab I flip it over and grind a bevel of approx .25mm where the bottom of the girdle meets the bottom of the cab. This is solely to prevent chipping of the finished stone.
What bothers me intensely in my own work is when a girdle is not uniform around the stone, particularly in a sharp corner or point.
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 13:20:07 GMT -5
Thank you for some much-needed clarity. Really nice to be able to ask a question and get helpful advice.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jun 3, 2020 14:14:59 GMT -5
Let me put my 2 carats in. I've done a lot of silversmithing and I don't understand how you can securely bezel set a cab without a slight angle on the girdle. It doesn't have to be much but the bezel needs to "capture" the stone tightly by pressing against the girdle angle. If my methods aren't state of the art, someone please enlighten me.
I don't entirely understand the needs of wire wrappers because I've never wrapped. Based on my selling experience some wrappers like a straight 90-degree girdle. Others I've been told don't care and can wrap either way.
As for the bevel on the back, it's to prevent stone damage caused by pressing a cab into a bezel seat that has accumulated solder around the inside base of the bezel. It's not really needed if soldering is done properly, or if the excess solder is routed out before stone setting.
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 14:19:50 GMT -5
The lightbulbs are clicking on. I had the wrong angle in mind, as you could probably see in my recent work. A barely perceptible OUTWARD angle would let the bezel secure the stone from the side, without coming over the top of the cab at all. Thank you gemfeller. |
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jun 3, 2020 14:25:00 GMT -5
Let me put my 2 carats in. I've done a lot of silversmithing and I don't understand how you can securely bezel set a cab without a slight angle on the girdle. It doesn't have to be much but the bezel needs to "capture" the stone tightly by pressing against the girdle angle. If my methods aren't state of the art, someone please enlighten me. I don't entirely understand the needs of wire wrappers because I've never wrapped. Based on my selling experience some wrappers like a straight 90-degree girdle. Others I've been told don't care and can wrap either way. As for the bevel on the back, it's to prevent stone damage caused by pressing a cab into a bezel seat that has accumulated solder around the inside base of the bezel. It's not really needed if soldering is done properly, or if the excess solder is routed out before stone setting. If there is a 1/8" tall girdle and 1/8" tall bezel wire is used then there 100% has to be a bevel to capture the stone. If the girdle is 1/8" and the bezel wire is 3/16" tall the bezel will overlap the top of the stone getting pushed down onto the dome and that will hold the stone. I would still prefer some bevel either way myself. This one was a 90 degree girdle and has the bezel wire pushed over the stone.  Chuck |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jun 3, 2020 15:10:29 GMT -5
Great example, Chuck. Like Tommy, I don't intentionally angle my bevels, either. Straight up 90 degrees works best for wire wrapping, and, I'm sure for cutting a stone that will be groove wrapped. But an angled girdle allows the stone to be better captured by the bezel. Since I don't do silversmithing, no need for an angle when cabbing for my own use. Ev knave , here are a couple links with info about how cabs should be shaped in cross section, what the girdle is, dome description, etc. |
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Jun 3, 2020 15:24:15 GMT -5
I should have prefaced my comments by saying that I've never done metal smithing so I can't possible know the intricate requirements of a text book professional bezel setting. I"m just relating my own experience where I personally have never been told that it matters in the loose, general sense of what constitutes a marketable cabochon. I've actually had more complaints (2 to be exact) about my stones having a girdle period. I've been contacted twice asking if I would consider making stones that the dome sloped all the way down to meet the back of the cabochon without a girdle. I politely pointed out the brisk sales occurring on my stones WITH a girdle and declined the request and one told me what a loser I was and that was that  |
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 16:06:31 GMT -5
Thanks to all who chimed in. Very helpful!
-no longer as confused!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 3, 2020 16:44:07 GMT -5
Thanks to all who chimed in. Very helpful! -no longer as confused! Ask and you shall receive.
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julieooly
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Post by julieooly on Jun 3, 2020 16:46:22 GMT -5
Knave, the three cabs I sent you have Very Slightly angled girdles. If you have a good set of calipers you can see the angle by holding the calipers across the width of the stone, you’ll see a super small gap at the top of the girdle and the bottom of the girdle will touch the calipers. I’ll get a picture for you when I can. It’s really small!
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 17:13:14 GMT -5
Knave, the three cabs I sent you have Very Slightly angled girdles. If you have a good set of calipers you can see the angle by holding the calipers across the width of the stone, you’ll see a super small gap at the top of the girdle and the bottom of the girdle will touch the calipers. I’ll get a picture for you when I can. It’s really small! I noticed that Julie! It’s part of what finally prompted me to ask. I had the wrong idea, for girdles, that they should slope inward, so the bezel could fit snug to the top edge. Sounds weird now, but is what it is. Also, nothing like seeing a professional cabochon in person to help get the idea. Send me more, so I won’t forget. Please? Just kidding!  |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jun 3, 2020 20:13:57 GMT -5
Evan, the bezel will fit snug at the top of the girdle once it is pushed down and burnished against the stone. Just that tiny little bit of an angle is enough to capture the stone and hold it securely with no movement in the setting if it is done correctly.
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julieooly
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Post by julieooly on Jun 3, 2020 20:39:55 GMT -5
Knave, the three cabs I sent you have Very Slightly angled girdles. If you have a good set of calipers you can see the angle by holding the calipers across the width of the stone, you’ll see a super small gap at the top of the girdle and the bottom of the girdle will touch the calipers. I’ll get a picture for you when I can. It’s really small! I noticed that Julie! It’s part of what finally prompted me to ask. I had the wrong idea, for girdles, that they should slope inward, so the bezel could fit snug to the top edge. Sounds weird now, but is what it is. Also, nothing like seeing a professional cabochon in person to help get the idea. Send me more, so I won’t forget. Please? Just kidding! Professional?!! Lol thanks, I just got it figured out I hope! Plenty for sale in the shop *wink* |
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julieooly
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Post by julieooly on Jun 3, 2020 20:52:19 GMT -5
 Look at where the caliper touches the very bottom of the girdle on the left hand side of the cab. See the little gap that starts about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom? That's my version of the angled girdle. I sure hope it's the way to do it because all my cabs have one! It was difficult to decide whether to do straight girdles or angled ones. The biggest problem from the beginning for me teaching myself is that there are many ways to do things and some aren't necessarily right or wrong, just different. It is my understanding that the angled girdles can work well for both bezel setting and wire wrapping, although wire-wrappers may "prefer" straight the angle isn't necessarily going to make or break their designs. On that note with the bezel setters, the angle is incredibly important I've learned from my research. Would love more input here too. |
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julieooly
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Post by julieooly on Jun 3, 2020 21:00:26 GMT -5
Oh and the bevel is also incredibly small on my cabs also, I just barely touch the sharp bottom edge of the cab/girdle to the 280/600 wheel to smooth it out when I'm cleaning up the backs. I'm also learning now how to polish the backs properly, that's a big discussion too. Hope this helps!
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 21:09:57 GMT -5
I’ve convinced myself that an inverse girdle angle isn’t the way to go. Lol
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Post by knave on Jun 3, 2020 21:11:29 GMT -5
I'm also learning now how to polish the backs properly. I have a friend that swears he can do it on his 8” CK. |
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Post by stardiamond on Jun 3, 2020 21:33:26 GMT -5
I'm also learning now how to polish the backs properly. I have a friend that swears he can do it on his 8” CK. Polishing the backs isn't to difficult if a person uses dop wax. With glue, it has to be done holding the cab in the hand. The polishing pad isn't too bad. Slide the cab in from the edge of the pad to the middle while moving fingers from the edge of the cab to the top. Years ago, I polished backs because I only worked once a week and that allowed time for my fingers to heal. I recently had a customer who wanted to buy four cabs if I polished the backs and then didn't buy. My fingers weren't happy. It is easier to sand a dome than a flat surface. I try to make my girdles 90 degrees and only put a bezel on the bottom when there is chipping along the edges. People who have bought my cabs to set in silver haven't complained about the lack of a bezel or girdle angle. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 4, 2020 7:35:29 GMT -5
Well, this doesn't look dead yet, so I'll add my 2 cents. As a wrapper, I can wrap a straight or angled girdle, so I cut with an angled girdle to make silversmiths happy. I think gemfeller is right. An accomplished, old school silversmith will prefer an angled girdle. I don't generally like the look of the bezel wire being turned over the top of the cab and would rather see a stone set with an angled girdle and the wire below the top. I have set both as a silversmith and prefer the angle. It doesn't need to be much. To me it isn't that difficult to do. I simply watch the angle of my dop stick. |
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