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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 11:23:16 GMT -5
I’ve recently decided to try my hand at selling some of the hundreds of cabs I’ve cut in my Etsy shop. One repeat buyer bought several and left great reviews. She asked me if I would cut some custom stones for her, so I said sure. She asked for silver sheen obsidian, lepidolite, and serpentine trillions, 25 mm with a 5mm dome. No problem. I cut the stones and sent her multiple pictures of them. She didn’t like the color of the lepidolite, and decided not to take the serpentine. No problem. She thought the obsidian was less than 25 mm, so I took a picture of the stone in my caliper, 25.1mm. No problem. She then asked for a video of the stone to see how shimmery it was. No problem. Here are a couple pictures of the cab:   I sent her the obsidian, and followed up a few days later to see how she liked the stone. She said it was full of cracks and pits and was totally useless in jewelry. Problem! I asked for a picture and this is what she sent me:  i pointed out that it was an inclusion, maybe .25mm diameter, there are more small ones in the stone, obsidian has lots of them, and it wasn’t a defect on my part at all. But if she wasn’t happy with it, I’ll gladly take it back, just pay to ship it back as it states in my shop policies, and I’ll refund you. She said she wouldn’t pay to ship it, I had to since it was a custom order and I was being deceitful in not disclosing the imperfections in the stone to her, even though I include a statement in my shop policies about stone being natural material and can have small flaws and defects. My question to anyone who would like to chime in is how should I have handled this and have you encountered similar things in the past and how have you dealt with it? I issued her a return label, I’ll eat the cost to ship, it’s like $3 on a $22 dollar stone. I don’t want her to leave a bad review of my shop. But dang, she went off with giving me all sorts of good business ‘tips’, which were actually morsels of unsolicited advice😜 I had to respond with a ‘tip’ of my own telling her that she should make her expectations fully clear to people up front in the future and that she asked for a 25mm by 5mm shimmery silver sheen obsidian cabochon, which I made for her. Sorry for the rant! Feel free to move this post if I didn’t put it in the appropriate place! John |
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Post by stardiamond on Jul 25, 2020 12:24:49 GMT -5
After making cabochons for over 15 years, I decided to start selling on Etsy. My goals were to make the hobby self funding and have my work seen. I wasn't interested in earning a wage. I have some good repeat customers.
One repeat customer asked me to make earrings. My strengths are picking good material and making good designs not cutting calibrated stones . I decided to make a pair as a learning experience and sent them along with an order for free for evaluation purposes. I also said that I wasn't interested in making many. The customer hasn't ordered since and I don't know if it was a falling out or some change on her part. I have had one cab returned. It was one of the first cabs I sold. It was very nice and well made. The photograph made the dome look higher than it was even though I provided accurate dimensions. I sold it again and the buyer was very pleased. I also tried to improve my pictures to make them as accurate as possible.
1. There will always be some unsatisfied or difficult customers.
2. Since I decided that I was still making cabs as a hobby, I got to pick what I worked on. If I were trying to generate a certain amount of income, I might consider some custom work. I communicate a lot with my customers and when they are looking for something I don't have listed. I will check my unlisted cabs and slabs to see if I can fulfill their request.
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pizzano
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jul 25, 2020 12:39:38 GMT -5
Personally, I don't see a problem with up-front blanket business product/material quality disclosures.....However and unfortunately, their are going to be a few who disregard or do not interpret the verbiage as intended by the seller.........seems you've had lots of success and repeat buyers.
A buddy of mine who collects, slabs/processes very fine polished material, started out re-sale with such a disclosure.............He eventually went to a more defined sliding scale evaluation process. I'm not sure if this scale is an industry standard or one he put together just for his products. I understand there is an "industry" standard. I'll have to ask him.
Every specimen or piece of finished material he sells has a rank and a cost associated with that rank. He guarantees everything and also has a cost associated/based on volume being purchased. I know he now caters exclusively to jewelry making clients, which may also have helped him establish a scale. Many of his clients are well established designers who also cab and or facet his material. He processes at every level of perfection, mostly cutting/slabbing and polishing on larger material 3" to 6" or larger.
He does not have a dedicated website that provides individual photo's of the material........He uses a couple of Facebook sites and corresponds through E-Mail distribution. Provides photo's on request. His relies heavily on his clients word of mouth and their relationships with other's that purchase like material. During his early trial run ventures, he was using the basic E-Bay, Alibaba and Bonanza sites. But once he established a niche clientele (it took him almost 3yrs), those were discontinued.
I know he has had very good success with this method.......maybe due to the fact he only deals with very knowledgeable and experienced lapidarian folks. But, it seems to me if a scale (industry acceptable gauge) is applied, any purchaser (well, maybe not any), most, would be hard pressed to disqualify the quality after having agreed to accept the quality based on the scale, disclosure and stated guaranty, by simply agreeing to the price and paying for the product.
I'll ask him when he gets back from another collecting excursion he is currently enjoying....!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 25, 2020 14:20:03 GMT -5
I really feel for you, John. These situations really knock the wind out of your sails. I have had a few problems with difficult people, too. In 20 years, it's inevitable. This woman sounds very picky, difficult and impossible to please. Honestly- with her very exacting demands, I may not have done it, maybe sensing what was to come. But certainly, what I would have done is just quietly send her the return label and be done with her. But, I do understand that on etsy you want to play nice so they don't gig you in feedback. It sucks, I know. You end up up having to play nice with a not so nice person. I'll tell you something else I do. When I sense that a deal may not go well with a difficult person, I will ask that the custom work be done off-etsy. I have done this quite a few times to cover my ass- just in case. 99.99% of people are really wonderful. It just takes those few to make us gun shy. To hell with her. You do great work and your cabs were awesome. And, actually, I SAW that inclusion in the image you sent her- so clearly you weren't trying to hide it. Sometimes, all you can do is eat the postage and move on.
Edit- I do a lot of custom work. I was emailing with a woman about a job and I said something about cost and then mailing "it" to me. "It" being her turquoise, but she thought I meant the money. Good communication is always number one. I didn't hear from her for a few days, so I told her about the mistake I made in writing to her. She was totally cool and had already put a check and stone in the mail. But, truthfully, I could easily have lost that job due to my poor communications with her.
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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 15:06:39 GMT -5
After making cabochons for over 15 years, I decided to start selling on Etsy. My goals were to make the hobby self funding and have my work seen. I wasn't interested in earning a wage. I have some good repeat customers. One repeat customer asked me to make earrings. My strengths are picking good material and making good designs not cutting calibrated stones . I decided to make a pair as a learning experience and sent them along with an order for free for evaluation purposes. I also said that I wasn't interested in making many. The customer hasn't ordered since and I don't know if it was a falling out or some change on her part. I have had one cab returned. It was one of the first cabs I sold. It was very nice and well made. The photograph made the dome look higher than it was even though I provided accurate dimensions. I sold it again and the buyer was very pleased. I also tried to improve my pictures to make them as accurate as possible. 1. There will always be some unsatisfied or difficult customers. 2. Since I decided that I was still making cabs as a hobby, I got to pick what I worked on. If I were trying to generate a certain amount of income, I might consider some custom work. I communicate a lot with my customers and when they are looking for something I don't have listed. I will check my unlisted cabs and slabs to see if I can fulfill their request. Thank you stardiamond I am mostly doing my shop as a hobby as well, trying to fund all of the goodies needed to keep cutting and polishing. I enjoy it most when I’m cutting what I wand and smithing what I want. I think I might have to evaluate doing any custom work in the future. I may have been naive in this transaction, as she was a repeat customer who was extremely happy with the stones I cut in the past, but once it was custom work, it was completely different. I may not do any of that again. I appreciate your thoughts and completely understand where you are coming from keeping it as a hobby. |
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Post by knave on Jul 25, 2020 15:17:26 GMT -5
I’m not a seller but that shimmer is awesome.
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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 15:25:25 GMT -5
Personally, I don't see a problem with up-front blanket business product/material quality disclosures.....However and unfortunately, their are going to be a few who disregard or do not interpret the verbiage as intended by the seller.........seems you've had lots of success and repeat buyers.
A buddy of mine who collects, slabs/processes very fine polished material, started out re-sale with such a disclosure.............He eventually went to a more defined sliding scale evaluation process. I'm not sure if this scale is an industry standard or one he put together just for his products. I understand there is an "industry" standard. I'll have to ask him.
Every specimen or piece of finished material he sells has a rank and a cost associated with that rank. He guarantees everything and also has a cost associated/based on volume being purchased. I know he now caters exclusively to jewelry making clients, which may also have helped him establish a scale. Many of his clients are well established designers who also cab and or facet his material. He processes at every level of perfection, mostly cutting/slabbing and polishing on larger material 3" to 6" or larger.
He does not have a dedicated website that provides individual photo's of the material........He uses a couple of Facebook sites and corresponds through E-Mail distribution. Provides photo's on request. His relies heavily on his clients word of mouth and their relationships with other's that purchase like material. During his early trial run ventures, he was using the basic E-Bay, Alibaba and Bonanza sites. But once he established a niche clientele (it took him almost 3yrs), those were discontinued.
I know he has had very good success with this method.......maybe due to the fact he only deals with very knowledgeable and experienced lapidarian folks. But, it seems to me if a scale (industry acceptable gauge) is applied, any purchaser (well, maybe not any), most, would be hard pressed to disqualify the quality after having agreed to accept the quality based on the scale, disclosure and stated guaranty, by simply agreeing to the price and paying for the product.
I'll ask him when he gets back from another collecting excursion he is currently enjoying....!
Thank you pizzano I like the idea of rankings and the other scales you mention. I actually am not entirely familiar with the quality scales associated with lapidary materials, though I seem to remember some A’s and +’s associated with it. I’d appreciate any information you can get for me once your friend is back from collecting...which is what I feel like doing right now lol! one thing that puzzles me is that the buyer said no amount of pictures is enough and that I should have told her up front about imperfections in the stone, which I’m not sure is 100% fair, as it washes her hands of really looking at the stone and puts the burden on me to pick my work apart. I wasn’t being deceitful at all, I saw the inclusion and numerous other smaller ones, but didn’t mention them because 1-I didn’t know what she had in mind with the stone 2- I had no idea inclusions would be a deal breaker. Thanks much for your thoughts and input, I appreciate it! |
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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 15:35:49 GMT -5
I really feel for you, John. These situations really knock the wind out of your sails. I have had a few problems with difficult people, too. In 20 years, it's inevitable. This woman sounds very picky, difficult and impossible to please. Honestly- with her very exacting demands, I may not have done it, maybe sensing what was to come. But certainly, what I would have done is just quietly send her the return label and be done with her. But, I do understand that on etsy you want to play nice so they don't gig you in feedback. It sucks, I know. You end up up having to play nice with a not so nice person. I'll tell you something else I do. When I sense that a deal may not go well with a difficult person, I will ask that the custom work be done off-etsy. I have done this quite a few times to cover my ass- just in case. 99.99% of people are really wonderful. It just takes those few to make us gun shy. To hell with her. You do great work and your cabs were awesome. And, actually, I SAW that inclusion in the image you sent her- so clearly you weren't trying to hide it. Sometimes, all you can do is eat the postage and move on.
Edit- I do a lot of custom work. I was emailing with a woman about a job and I said something about cost and then mailing "it" to me. "It" being her turquoise, but she thought I meant the money. Good communication is always number one. I didn't hear from her for a few days, so I told her about the mistake I made in writing to her. She was totally cool and had already put a check and stone in the mail. But, truthfully, I could easily have lost that job due to my poor communications with her.
Thanks Tela. You are so right with your comment about knocking the wind out of your sails...it was awful. I’m a big boy and can take a lot, but her matter of fact attitude and assessment that it was unsuitable for use in jewelry, and accusations of me being less than up front and deceitful were a bit much to take. It’s hard to not be able to defend myself, but this isn’t a cross I want to die on really. I’ll chalk it up to a learning experience. I probably already said too much to her in reply. I should have sensed it was going to go bad when she backed out of the other two cabs. And I really like your idea of doing custom work off of Etsy. That’s brilliant! Thanks for that advise. And communication is king, I’ll redouble my efforts there. Thanks for your thoughts, I really appreciate it! |
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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 15:37:14 GMT -5
I’m not a seller but that shimmer is awesome. Thanks Evan! It’s a pretty nice cab and I’m proud of it. Obsidian is really hard for me to get shaped and polished well. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 16:52:29 GMT -5
My 3 cents(yep i got a raise)
Your work is killer
We all know it.
U can put anyones
Work under a microscope and find
A detail that is not seen at a certain angle.
That being said
Some people just suck,
Stay away from them if you can.
Your stuff is killer
Paul
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Post by lpl on Jul 25, 2020 17:07:00 GMT -5
My 3 cents(yep i got a raise) Your work is killer We all know it. U can put anyones Work under a microscope and find A detail that is not seen at a certain angle. That being said Some people just suck, Stay away from them if you can. Your stuff is killer Paul Paul, I’m happy to hear that you got a raise 😜 and thank you for the props and insights, I really appreciate it! |
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jul 25, 2020 18:42:57 GMT -5
I sent a text to my rock buddy hoping he'd respond..........he's in New Mexico some place, didn't bother to ask where, they (his wife also) were having lunch. Anyway, he told me he didn't make up or reinvent the wheel, one of his customers suggested the grading scale used by Fire Mountain Gems. Seems many respect the guide and use it themselves as a reference.........so he adopted it. www.firemountaingems.com/Resources/encyclobeadia/charts/E893He also adds a ( +) to his grading scale...........Hope this helps.....! |
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EricD
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High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 25, 2020 19:02:04 GMT -5
My 3 cents(yep i got a raise) Your work is killer We all know it. U can put anyones Work under a microscope and find A detail that is not seen at a certain angle. That being said Some people just suck, Stay away from them if you can. Your stuff is killer Paul This is almost exactly how I feel about this thread. Thanks for putting that in words for me Paul. |
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Jul 25, 2020 19:10:07 GMT -5
lpl I don't really have anything useful to add in how to resolve it, but I feel for you. I learned very early on to leave the custom stuff alone unless it was a valuable repeat customer who has been happily buying from me then wanted say a pair of matching earring stones to go along with an existing piece they wanted to buy from my shop. I either had more of the material and had time to do it or I didn't, and good folks generally understand. I once had a lady contact me and ask if I take some stones already for sale in the shop and re-grind off the girdles and make continuous domes that reached the back/flat side for her. I politely declined and she proceeded to chew me up one side and down the other about how many more stones I would be selling if I would do this ... I don't remember exactly what I said to her but it was along the lines of golly gee ma'am, that sure sounds inviting but I can barely keep up with demand as it is, and my repeat customers tend clear the store of new items within minutes of new postings, and I've somehow managed to sell almost two thousand cabs at that point WITH girdles ... but I'll keep it under advisement just in case. Thankfully I never heard back from her. The moral of the story and my advice to you is to cut bait and don't spend another minute worrying about it. She can go off her merry way and be someone else's problem now. Going forward, establish clear and concise FAQ's on your store, and always use all ten photos spots provided by Etsy including at least one side view (showing the conclusion of the dome). Also lightly mention any natural surface "features" including textures where plumes break the agate surface, soft spots that undercut, etc. without dwelling on it for too long or making it sound negative.
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EricD
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High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 25, 2020 19:24:18 GMT -5
... [snip] ... Going forward, establish clear and concise FAQ's on your store, always use all ten photos spots provided by Etsy including at least one side view (showing the conclusion of the dome). Also lightly mention any natural surface "features" including textures where plumes break the agate surface, soft spots that undercut, etc. without dwelling on it for too long or making it sound negative. I don't sell a lot, but I tend to use the stardiamond approach; Here it is, here is the price, (and my personal touch until I get better photos somehow: ) here are some phone pics of it that look incredibly crappy. Kinda keeps me out of those situations where someone is disappointed with what they get. They can't say anything negative if what they get is incredibly better than the pictures. Maybe I will graduate from newb-dom one day. But I like being a child!
The only custom order I have done was for a long time friend who was absolutely blown away with what I made him. I would never make a stranger a custom item since they usually have some insane idea of what they will get that has no basis on reality.
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Tommy
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Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Jul 25, 2020 19:28:52 GMT -5
The only custom order I have done was for a long time friend who was absolutely blown away with what I made him. I would never make a stranger a custom item since they usually have some insane idea of what they will get that has no basis on reality. There's a good point to be made right there... save the custom work for family and friends who are already blown away at your artistic talents and are just happy to be getting one of your original pieces haha. |
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Post by stardiamond on Jul 25, 2020 20:30:36 GMT -5
There's a moral or story here. I made this an a bunch of surface vugs showed up. I completed it listed it and sold it for $10. I said the cab was better than the picture. The buyer was extremely pleased. Some cabbers would have tossed it but I think the buyer should have the opportunity.  |
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Jul 25, 2020 20:38:20 GMT -5
There's a moral or story here. I made this an a bunch of surface vugs showed up. I completed it listed it and sold it for $10. I said the cab was better than the picture. The buyer was extremely pleased. Some cabbers would have tossed it but I think the buyer should have the opportunity. I would buy that for a ten-spot. Thank you for sharing that. You put time into it, maybe the buyer loved it the way it was.
There are people that dislike perfect things and there are people that want everything to be perfect and handed to them for nothing. And every variation in between.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jul 26, 2020 3:12:05 GMT -5
Like everyone said above. Your work is phenomenal. You did all you could and in a nice and polite manner. Be proud of yourself and forget the idiots and move on to the next project. The people you make happy totally outweighs the few unhappy complainers. I’d look at it like this and be thankful.........
Well that’s one less moron that I have to deal with. 😃
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Post by miket on Jul 26, 2020 7:20:16 GMT -5
There's a moral or story here. I made this an a bunch of surface vugs showed up. I completed it listed it and sold it for $10. I said the cab was better than the picture. The buyer was extremely pleased. Some cabbers would have tossed it but I think the buyer should have the opportunity. I'm glad you posted this, too. I have a "few" cabs that I've wrapped or want to wrap with small cracks and such and I was wondering if I should even bother. This makes me think yes. |
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