nextpre3
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 3
|
Post by nextpre3 on Aug 13, 2020 20:58:03 GMT -5
|
|
gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
|
Post by gatorflash1 on Aug 13, 2020 21:57:22 GMT -5
Did you by any chance take pictures of them after the various stages? That may be of some help in solving the problem. Was the rock load sized balanced without some beast of a rock mixed in with much smaller rocks? What media did you use with the rocks? Are you filling the barrel to a maximum of only 2/3rds including rocks, grit, media, and water? Have you tried a batch of agates and jasper and received the same results?
|
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Aug 13, 2020 22:53:47 GMT -5
I read somewhere that using brand new ceramic media in the polishing stage can mess up the batch due to the irregular edges of the media at this early stage in their tumbling life. I can't imagine it would cause damage to this degree...but food for thought.
|
|
|
|
Post by pauls on Aug 13, 2020 23:19:47 GMT -5
I have a feeling those fractures were always there, did you allow the rocks to dry before inspecting them in the previous stages? Water does a surprisingly good job of making cracks vanish.
|
|
nextpre3
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 3
|
Post by nextpre3 on Aug 14, 2020 8:17:56 GMT -5
Did you by any chance take pictures of them after the various stages? That may be of some help in solving the problem. Was the rock load sized balanced without some beast of a rock mixed in with much smaller rocks? What media did you use with the rocks? Are you filling the barrel to a maximum of only 2/3rds including rocks, grit, media, and water? Have you tried a batch of agates and jasper and received the same results? I actually did take quite a few videos between every stage, but it will probably be too time consuming to edit a video to examine the rocks. I would say the load was balanced, but there were definitely some smaller rocks in there. I used the regular ceramic media from the rock shed. I think it's possible that I am over filling the barrel with basically everything I guess. It's possible I am putting too many rocks, media grit and water in there. What exactly would over filling do to the rocks? I figured over filling would cause less polishing and shaping... but does it cause cracks and other blemishes? I have not tried agates or jasper yet since I don't yet have enough to polish. |
|
nextpre3
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 3
|
Post by nextpre3 on Aug 14, 2020 8:20:08 GMT -5
I have a feeling those fractures were always there, did you allow the rocks to dry before inspecting them in the previous stages? Water does a surprisingly good job of making cracks vanish. I do think that you might be right. I run my fingers all over the rock to feel for cracks and they all felt smooth all around, but I didn't wait for them to dry. So my question now is if i can just put them back in the pre-polish stage, or do I have to start over completely? |
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Aug 14, 2020 9:53:45 GMT -5
It is hard to tell from looking at just 3 rocks what is in a batch. the batch should have about 25% smalls that is 1/2" and less plus your regular rocks. for the polish add cushioning/filler. Plastic pellets, wood pegs, ceramic, walnut shells etc. these should be used to make sure, as previously mentioned, that the tumbler is about 80% full. If it is 2/3 or less you will get rocks like with granitic textures of unakite and granite start pinging each other. It is just like taking a hammer and tapping around the edges. small rocks and filler should prevent that.
|
|
JBe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 103
|
Post by JBe on Aug 14, 2020 9:59:05 GMT -5
The AO polish we use in tumbling is very fine grit. It will get into the tiniest of imperfections, more than all of the other grit stages, and highlight them. I think that's what you're experiencing. When the rock is wet it's easy to overlook small imperfections. Even feeling them with your fingertips they can be overlooked. It will be harder to remove the trapped grit if it has dried completely in there.
If you're happy with the overall polish you can try running them through another stage with just soap. If you go back to earlier stages you can tumble the grit out too but keep in mind the seams will probably still be there to some extent when you get back to final polish again. Give them a good scrub and blast of water before they dry or run them straight into a soap only stage to clean them up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Aug 15, 2020 8:54:57 GMT -5
I have been tumbling unakite off and on for 5 years. It is in my opinion not a beginner material. All rocks with feldspar are challenging. I recommend a minimum one 1 year with agates, jaspers, etc. of consistent Mohs hardness 7 before you will learn enough to be successful with unakite. Even with my experience, only 50% of finished unakite come out great. I buy it as well as collect on N shore of Lake Superior.
|
|
kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
|
Post by kyoti on Aug 16, 2020 8:09:51 GMT -5
If you're concerned with overfilling the barrel, there is a quick, easy way to check before you close everything up and start the tumble. I used this trick I learned from a video by Michigan Rocks Jugglerguy . Once you have all your rocks and Grit loaded and ready to go, lay a roll of masking tape in the barrel on top of the rocks. If you got the balance correct, it'll sit right at the lip of where the lid fits. Then just take the tape out, and fill the barrel with water until it just touches the bottom of the top stones. I'm probably not describing this correctly, but you can watch his video on rotary tumbling for beginners. I also struggle with the Polish stage on some of my nicer rocks. There always appears to be a crack or pit that you just didn't see before all that lovely white AO polish shows up  I've started using Ivory soap shavings in my final polish runs. It will make the Polish liquid a little thicker and will also help clean out the barrel and the Rocks when you rinse them. Here's a video from MeMiner greig thats shows it. |
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 17, 2020 22:00:17 GMT -5
kyoti, I don't use a roll of masking tape to measure how full the barrel is. That was a piece of PVC pipe that I cut to the correct length to measure when the barrel is 2/3 or 3/4 full (I don't remember which I cut it for). Overfilling the barrel will give the rocks a more gentle ride. Underfilling is more likely damage the rocks. I agree that those chips were there all along or that it's because unakite is a type of granite and sometimes has the same undercutting problems that granite has. One important thing with unakite is to pick pieces that don't look like granite. If it's speckled like granite, it's more likely to undercut. I look for the pieces that have the green and red sort of smeared together. Even safer is to pick plain epidote without any red feldspar in it. The green epidote tumbles much easier than feldspar. Did you happen to have any plain epidote in that barrel? Did it turn out okay? What size ceramics did you use? I always buy a mixture of large and small from The Rock Shed and mix them. I think it's important that you have some small stuff in there.
|
|
kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
|
Post by kyoti on Aug 18, 2020 6:39:48 GMT -5
Wow I really got that one wrong. I guess I got lucky that my tape roll is just the right width. Sorry about the incorrect quote Jugglerguy. |
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,590
Member is Online
|
Post by jamesp on Aug 18, 2020 6:50:54 GMT -5
kyoti, I don't use a roll of masking tape to measure how full the barrel is. That was a piece of PVC pipe that I cut to the correct length to measure when the barrel is 2/3 or 3/4 full (I don't remember which I cut it for). Overfilling the barrel will give the rocks a more gentle ride. Underfilling is more likely damage the rocks. I agree that those chips were there all along or that it's because unakite is a type of granite and sometimes has the same undercutting problems that granite has. One important thing with unakite is to pick pieces that don't look like granite. If it's speckled like granite, it's more likely to undercut. I look for the pieces that have the green and red sort of smeared together. Even safer is to pick plain epidote without any red feldspar in it. The green epidote tumbles much easier than feldspar. Did you happen to have any plain epidote in that barrel? Did it turn out okay? What size ceramics did you use? I always buy a mixture of large and small from The Rock Shed and mix them. I think it's important that you have some small stuff in there. The unakite you sent me did best when the amount of pink felspar was minimal Rob. If the red felspar was in thin layers or small spots it polished fine. The solid green epidote was a breeze. Wife and I enjoyed watching your movie productions one evening recently. I was hoping to see you stomping thru the deep snow wearing those funny looking tennis rackets on your feet. It sure would be fun to snorkel in that clear water. Maybe a dry suit would be required to prevent freezing. Ever seen a Hookah breathing pump for diving in shallow water for extended periods ? Maybe I can talk you into a movie production along the Tex/Mex border. We could head up river from Lake Falcon toward Laredo where the river is narrow and grown over. Conditions there are favorable for border crossings by the cartels. We could mix rock collecting with some adventuresome confrontations with the drug tradesmen ! Perhaps convince them to carry our rocks up to the truck if we help them transport their product. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Aug 18, 2020 10:39:59 GMT -5
I'm extremely found of green rocks for some reason, and so rotary (all that I do) tumbling of epidotes and epidote mixes like unakite are fun for me. If a rock doesn't seem to hold together tightly in rough grind, I've learned it just may not be worth continuing. Another thing that has helped is starting in 220 rather than bigger grit. Does it take a long time to round off the rocks in 220--yes. But it has helped my unakite results. I've tried to predict from the appearance of unakite rough which would do well and which don't, but haven't been successful. With unakite, sodalite, rhodonite, and a few other oddball combo mineral rocks my luck is often that less than 50%, and sometimes less than 25%, will come out really nice keepers. Recently I did my largest piece of unakite found in Ontario, about the size of a small orange. There was a porous area in it, but I had high hopes (don't we all) and just kept going and going. Now the rock is a year later and the porous area is even more of it than before! I should have thrown it away to begin with, or sawn off the bad part (but it went right thru the middle!) or done some fancy diluted epoxy soak that I've read about but never yet tried. There is a Youtube video of the Michigan Rocks guy showing his tumbled unakite and boy do I consider him an expert given his gorgeous results!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 18, 2020 18:25:57 GMT -5
kyoti, I don't use a roll of masking tape to measure how full the barrel is. That was a piece of PVC pipe that I cut to the correct length to measure when the barrel is 2/3 or 3/4 full (I don't remember which I cut it for). Overfilling the barrel will give the rocks a more gentle ride. Underfilling is more likely damage the rocks. I agree that those chips were there all along or that it's because unakite is a type of granite and sometimes has the same undercutting problems that granite has. One important thing with unakite is to pick pieces that don't look like granite. If it's speckled like granite, it's more likely to undercut. I look for the pieces that have the green and red sort of smeared together. Even safer is to pick plain epidote without any red feldspar in it. The green epidote tumbles much easier than feldspar. Did you happen to have any plain epidote in that barrel? Did it turn out okay? What size ceramics did you use? I always buy a mixture of large and small from The Rock Shed and mix them. I think it's important that you have some small stuff in there. The unakite you sent me did best when the amount of pink felspar was minimal Rob. If the red felspar was in thin layers or small spots it polished fine. The solid green epidote was a breeze. Wife and I enjoyed watching your movie productions one evening recently. I was hoping to see you stomping thru the deep snow wearing those funny looking tennis rackets on your feet. It sure would be fun to snorkel in that clear water. Maybe a dry suit would be required to prevent freezing. Ever seen a Hookah breathing pump for diving in shallow water for extended periods ? Maybe I can talk you into a movie production along the Tex/Mex border. We could head up river from Lake Falcon toward Laredo where the river is narrow and grown over. Conditions there are favorable for border crossings by the cartels. We could mix rock collecting with some adventuresome confrontations with the drug tradesmen ! Perhaps convince them to carry our rocks up to the truck if we help them transport their product. That's much more likely than it was about six hours ago. I just quit my job. Well, I guess I officially retired, but I wasn't planning to do that quite yet. My wife is in the high risk category for COVID, so she requested and was granted an online only position. If I was going to be in the room with a bunch of germs kids, her online job wasn't going to protect her, so I decided not to put myself in that situation. It's been a while since Spanish classes, but I can probably still ask where el bano is, so I'm probably good to go. I have been snorkeling in a few videos. Have you seen this one? It's one of my favorites. |
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 18, 2020 18:29:05 GMT -5
I'm extremely found of green rocks for some reason, and so rotary (all that I do) tumbling of epidotes and epidote mixes like unakite are fun for me. If a rock doesn't seem to hold together tightly in rough grind, I've learned it just may not be worth continuing. Another thing that has helped is starting in 220 rather than bigger grit. Does it take a long time to round off the rocks in 220--yes. But it has helped my unakite results. I've tried to predict from the appearance of unakite rough which would do well and which don't, but haven't been successful. With unakite, sodalite, rhodonite, and a few other oddball combo mineral rocks my luck is often that less than 50%, and sometimes less than 25%, will come out really nice keepers. Recently I did my largest piece of unakite found in Ontario, about the size of a small orange. There was a porous area in it, but I had high hopes (don't we all) and just kept going and going. Now the rock is a year later and the porous area is even more of it than before! I should have thrown it away to begin with, or sawn off the bad part (but it went right thru the middle!) or done some fancy diluted epoxy soak that I've read about but never yet tried. There is a Youtube video of the Michigan Rocks guy showing his tumbled unakite and boy do I consider him an expert given his gorgeous results! That guy is me. I only tumble Lake Superior Unakite, which looks different than the African stuff. I haven't tumbled unakite from any other area. I have very good luck starting it in a rotary and finishing in a Lot-O. I'm not sure if I've ever tumbled it to competion in a rotary tumbler. |
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,590
Member is Online
|
Post by jamesp on Aug 19, 2020 4:26:06 GMT -5
Jugglerguy Congrats on your retirement ! Looks like you get plenty of time to collect rocks now. You will find yourself busier than when employed. Are the round spots in the bottom of the lake at 6:30 in your video drone shots springs ? They are such round anomalies. Toward the end where you are snorkeling it appears the rocks on the bottom of the lake are coated with some kind of coating. Are the rocks coated as you move into deeper water ? Can you fan the coating off the rocks by fanning them with your hands underwater ?
|
|
kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
|
Post by kyoti on Aug 19, 2020 14:45:57 GMT -5
Congrats on your retirement Jugglerguy. More time for adventure videos now I liked the one where you took us via kayak out to the giant pudding stone. I've had my eyes on some unakite at the Rock Shed. I like the colors. Do you you use plastic pellets and start with the 150/220 grit? Do you all think it would be more difficult to tumble than my calcite filled travertine rocks that I find? I usually do those 100% in my vibe tumbler. They're soft and somewhat porous and round easily. |
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 19, 2020 15:01:38 GMT -5
Jugglerguy Congrats on your retirement ! Looks like you get plenty of time to collect rocks now. You will find yourself busier than when employed. Are the round spots in the bottom of the lake at 6:30 in your video drone shots springs ? They are such round anomalies. Toward the end where you are snorkeling it appears the rocks on the bottom of the lake are coated with some kind of coating. Are the rocks coated as you move into deeper water ? Can you fan the coating off the rocks by fanning them with your hands underwater ? My son in law is a geologist and he thinks that those are the beginnings of sinkholes. We have a fair number of sinkholes in this area because of our limestone bedrock. In some places, the rocks in deeper water are covered in algae, but the rocks in this video are covered by some sort of silt. It's easy to brush off. I'm not sure if fanning them would remove it or not. I was intentionally not doing that to avoid clouding up the water for my video. I don't really do much snorkeling, so I can't tell you much more than that. In shallow water, the wave action keeps the rocks cleaned off. |
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 19, 2020 15:07:50 GMT -5
Congrats on your retirement Jugglerguy. More time for adventure videos now I liked the one where you took us via kayak out to the giant pudding stone. I've had my eyes on some unakite at the Rock Shed. I like the colors. Do you you use plastic pellets and start with the 150/220 grit? Do you all think it would be more difficult to tumble than my calcite filled travertine rocks that I find? I usually do those 100% in my vibe tumbler. They're soft and somewhat porous and round easily. I haven't tumbled the unakite from the Rock Shed. I think that's the African stuff, and it looks different than what I find locally. I also haven't tumbled travertine so I can't compare my unakite to that. I'm not much help, I guess. I tumble unakite the same as I tumble almost all of my rocks. I start by running them through coarse grit a week at a time until I like how they look. That is done exactly as I did it in the video you linked to. I have used 80, 60/90, or 46/70. Then I move them to the Lot-O. I use ceramic media in the Lot-O. Step one: two days in 2 tablespoons of 220 or 120/220 silicon carbide grit. Step two: Three days in 1/2 teaspoon of 500 aluminum oxide and 1 tablespoon of borax. Step three: Two days in 1/2 teaspoon aluminum oxide polish and 1 tablespoon of borax. I've had very good luck with this recipe on most types of rock. |
|
I've started using Ivory soap shavings in my final polish runs. It will make the Polish liquid a little thicker and will also help clean out the barrel and the Rocks when you rinse them. Here's a video from MeMiner 
