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Post by jasoninsd on Aug 1, 2021 19:41:36 GMT -5
Took a couple pictures of some Laguna Lace preforms I cut today. A lot of the material I have is unstable or highly fractured...so finding really good cab patterns is hit and miss. Curious if you got your material from a dealer in Texas. I bought a fair amount 2-3 months ago and it is heartbreaking material. Looks soooo good until I try to cut it, completely falls apart. I had to move onto something else due to the frustration. I did! It was from J.H. Kalmore. Do you remember where you got yours from? I had gotten about 10 pounds of Flor de Durazno from them. It came and had some amazingly intricate banding to it. So I ordered another 10 pounds, but when it arrived it had NO intricate banding and was completely different. I called them up and he assured me they were the same (I had sent pictures). I wasn't convinced, but he said he got some new Laguna Lace in that day...so I ordered another 10 pounds of that material instead. That's what this came from. VERY fractured - even to the point that the fortifications are separating. Yes...wickedly frustrating. Maybe one or two (if lucky) cabs out of an entire slab... |
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Post by Rockindad on Aug 1, 2021 19:56:22 GMT -5
Curious if you got your material from a dealer in Texas. I bought a fair amount 2-3 months ago and it is heartbreaking material. Looks soooo good until I try to cut it, completely falls apart. I had to move onto something else due to the frustration. I did! It was from J.H. Kalmore. Do you remember where you got yours from? I had gotten about 10 pounds of Flor de Durazno from them. It came and had some amazingly intricate banding to it. So I ordered another 10 pounds, but when it arrived it had NO intricate banding and was completely different. I called them up and he assured me they were the same (I had sent pictures). I wasn't convinced, but he said he got some new Laguna Lace in that day...so I ordered another 10 pounds of that material instead. That's what this came from. VERY fractured - even to the point that the fortifications are separating. Yes...wickedly frustrating. Maybe one or two (if lucky) cabs out of an entire slab... One and the same. I'm on the hook for twenty-five pounds. I'm sure I'll try cutting it one more time because I like torturing myself but most likely it will end up on a shelf. I think I am pretty realistic when it comes to this and the reason I ordered that much is so I could get some nice slabs and tumble the problem areas. So far haven't even gotten a decent piece to tumble. Slabs? Yeah right. Maybe I'll get luck and get a slabette. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Aug 1, 2021 20:06:26 GMT -5
I did! It was from J.H. Kalmore. Do you remember where you got yours from? I had gotten about 10 pounds of Flor de Durazno from them. It came and had some amazingly intricate banding to it. So I ordered another 10 pounds, but when it arrived it had NO intricate banding and was completely different. I called them up and he assured me they were the same (I had sent pictures). I wasn't convinced, but he said he got some new Laguna Lace in that day...so I ordered another 10 pounds of that material instead. That's what this came from. VERY fractured - even to the point that the fortifications are separating. Yes...wickedly frustrating. Maybe one or two (if lucky) cabs out of an entire slab... One and the same. I'm on the hook for twenty-five pounds. I'm sure I'll try cutting it one more time because I like torturing myself but most likely it will end up on a shelf. I think I am pretty realistic when it comes to this and the reason I ordered that much is so I could get some nice slabs and tumble the problem areas. So far haven't even gotten a decent piece to tumble. Slabs? Yeah right. Maybe I'll get luck and get a slabette. Well, dang it all to heck! Good to know (not...but you know what I mean) that it wasn't just me. I totally get it that any of the "Crazy Lace" family has a tendency to be fractured...but I will say this batch of material is excessively brittle. It's not just the fractures that concerned me, it was the separation of the fortification layers. I've taken each of the pieces of material and tried to cut from different sides, just to see about getting a more "useable" piece out of each slab...unfortunately, no matter what direction I go, it's all the same. You're right about "slabettes" rather than slabs out of this batch. It definitely makes me want to think twice about ordering from them again...first because of the material quality, and secondly because I'm not convinced he was honest with me in regards to that Flor de Durazno order... |
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Post by jasoninsd on Aug 29, 2021 19:30:21 GMT -5
I swear by everything both holy and unholy Flor de Durazno has GOT to be the hardest material known to man! Okay...I know it's not, but it is probably the hardest material I've ever worked with...even harder than Montana Agates! The first two pics are the Flor de Durazno (Flower of Peach) Lace Agate. The third pic is a slice from some Crazy Lace I got at the Rock Shed awhile back.    |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 0:16:41 GMT -5
I swear by everything both holy and unholy Flor de Durazno has GOT to be the hardest material known to man! Okay...I know it's not, but it is probably the hardest material I've ever worked with...even harder than Montana Agates! The first two pics are the Flor de Durazno (Flower of Peach) Lace Agate. The third pic is a slice from some Crazy Lace I got at the Rock Shed awhile back. Do you have lab reports showing that is genuine Mexican lace agate? This guy in India will sell you a 5-1/2 ounce fractured slab of crazy lace for only $98.99. Sounds a little pricy, I know. BUT, it comes with a certificate from a lab in India, presumably confirming that it is crazy lace agate and its weight in carats. (I don't know what else a lab could certify with regard to a rough slab?) |
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 3, 2021 1:02:19 GMT -5
I swear by everything both holy and unholy Flor de Durazno has GOT to be the hardest material known to man! Okay...I know it's not, but it is probably the hardest material I've ever worked with...even harder than Montana Agates! The first two pics are the Flor de Durazno (Flower of Peach) Lace Agate. The third pic is a slice from some Crazy Lace I got at the Rock Shed awhile back. Do you have lab reports showing that is genuine Mexican lace agate? This guy in India will sell you a 5-1/2 ounce fractured slab of crazy lace for only $98.99. Sounds a little pricy, I know. BUT, it comes with a certificate from a lab in India, presumably confirming that it is crazy lace agate and its weight in carats. (I don't know what else a lab could certify with regard to a rough slab?) I might have been interested in that piece if it had been certified as "ethically sourced"! LOL (Of course then it would have probably been listed for 10 times that amount! LOL) |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 1:17:33 GMT -5
I might have been interested in that piece if it had been certified as "ethically sourced"! LOL (Of course then it would have probably been listed for 10 times that amount! LOL) Maybe India's got a lab that certifies for that too? It always cracks me up when I see rough slabs listed on Ebay in their carat weight. Or even cabs for that matter. As if the weight of a cab makes it more valuable or something. If that were the case, we'd be back to that clock around the next thing again... |
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 3, 2021 8:02:16 GMT -5
I might have been interested in that piece if it had been certified as "ethically sourced"! LOL (Of course then it would have probably been listed for 10 times that amount! LOL) Maybe India's got a lab that certifies for that too? It always cracks me up when I see rough slabs listed on Ebay in their carat weight. Or even cabs for that matter. As if the weight of a cab makes it more valuable or something. If that were the case, we'd be back to that clock around the next thing again... I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the humor/obsurdity in the carat weight... I get it that it's a selling "tool" (read that as ploy) since listing a 3oz slab at a whopping 425 carats sounds so much bigger and better - it must be the buy of the century - it's big enough to make TWO clocks!! LOL |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 3, 2021 10:19:16 GMT -5
It always cracks me up when I see rough slabs listed on Ebay in their carat weight. Or even cabs for that matter. As if the weight of a cab makes it more valuable or something. If that were the case, we'd be back to that clock around the next thing again... It actually does effect the pricing of a cab. Let's say you bought some rough for however much a pound. You slabbed it up and lost weight doing that. Then you trimmed out your cab preforms and lost a lot more weight. Then you cabbed your material and lost even more weight. If you are a retailer of your cabs, you have to add in your costs (equipment wear, consumables, electricity) and then add in your time for all of that. So yeah, a bigger cab costs more if you want to make a profit. Even if you were just trying to break even on costs, it's still going to cost more.
I agree with you about using carat weight for slabs on common material is ridiculous, but carat weight has always been used as a standard measure in finished stones. In addition, there are certain materials that are not readily available anymore and quite valuable. Maw Sit Sit, charoite, gem dino bone (the real good stuff), gem chrysoprase (Marlborough mine in Australia) and natural turquoise come to mind. One used to be able to buy these materials for a relatively decent price once upon a time. The rough prices now are sky high, if you can even find good cutting material at all.
For the record, I don't go on Ebay much anymore.
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 10:40:15 GMT -5
It always cracks me up when I see rough slabs listed on Ebay in their carat weight. Or even cabs for that matter. As if the weight of a cab makes it more valuable or something. If that were the case, we'd be back to that clock around the next thing again... It actually does effect the pricing of a cab. Let's say you bought some rough for however much a pound. You slabbed it up and lost weight doing that. Then you trimmed out your cab preforms and lost a lot more weight. Then you cabbed your material and lost even more weight. If you are a retailer of your cabs, you have to add in your costs (equipment wear, consumables, electricity) and then add in your time for all of that. So yeah, a bigger cab costs more if you want to make a profit. Even if you were just trying to break even on costs, it's still going to cost more.
I agree with you about using carat weight for slabs on common material is ridiculous, but carat weight has always been used as a standard measure in finished stones. In addition, there are certain materials that are not readily available anymore and quite valuable. Maw Sit Sit, charoite, gem dino bone (the real good stuff), gem chrysoprase (Marlborough mine in Australia) and natural turquoise come to mind. One used to be able to buy these materials for a relatively decent price once upon a time. The rough prices now are sky high, if you can even find good cutting material at all.
For the record, I don't go on Ebay much anymore.
You make a good point that I hadn't considered. Pricing cabs by weight (at least in part) is a good way to charge more for cabs that take more time to make, since no doubt larger cabs take a lot longer than small ones, and your time is valuable and running machines that use expensive diamond wheels is costly. I guess I was thinking about it in terms of material cost. With something like Mexican crazy lace, the cost of the rough would not seem to be a major component of the overall cost of the cab. That is certainly not the case with rough that can cost $100 or more for a slab. Thanks for helping me understand your point of view on this.  |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 12:45:03 GMT -5
Finished these yesterday. Parallax banding in both. The second one is my first attempt at a low dome. More oddly shaped freeforms for jasoninsd  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 3, 2021 16:35:57 GMT -5
Finished these yesterday. Parallax banding in both. The second one is my first attempt at a low dome. More oddly shaped freeforms for jasoninsdStill better than my obscure blobs! LOL I love the banding in that second one!!! |
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Post by miket on Sept 3, 2021 16:46:44 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to jump in. Two oddly shaped freeforms...99.99% of all of the cabs I've made have been freeformed. In the words of Beth fernwood, I try to listen to the rocks...  |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Sept 3, 2021 17:13:02 GMT -5
It actually does effect the pricing of a cab. Let's say you bought some rough for however much a pound. You slabbed it up and lost weight doing that. Then you trimmed out your cab preforms and lost a lot more weight. Then you cabbed your material and lost even more weight. If you are a retailer of your cabs, you have to add in your costs (equipment wear, consumables, electricity) and then add in your time for all of that. So yeah, a bigger cab costs more if you want to make a profit. Even if you were just trying to break even on costs, it's still going to cost more.
I agree with you about using carat weight for slabs on common material is ridiculous, but carat weight has always been used as a standard measure in finished stones. In addition, there are certain materials that are not readily available anymore and quite valuable. Maw Sit Sit, charoite, gem dino bone (the real good stuff), gem chrysoprase (Marlborough mine in Australia) and natural turquoise come to mind. One used to be able to buy these materials for a relatively decent price once upon a time. The rough prices now are sky high, if you can even find good cutting material at all.
For the record, I don't go on Ebay much anymore.
You make a good point that I hadn't considered. Pricing cabs by weight (at least in part) is a good way to charge more for cabs that take more time to make, since no doubt larger cabs take a lot longer than small ones, and your time is valuable and running machines that use expensive diamond wheels is costly. I guess I was thinking about it in terms of material cost. With something like Mexican crazy lace, the cost of the rough would not seem to be a major component of the overall cost of the cab. That is certainly not the case with rough that can cost $100 or more for a slab. Thanks for helping me understand your point of view on this.  No worries.  |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 19:25:54 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to jump in. Two oddly shaped freeforms...99.99% of all of the cabs I've made have been freeformed. In the words of Beth fernwood , I try to listen to the rocks... Thanks for having my back on the funny shapes. I usually just pick an area that I like and cut about a quarter of an inch around that area with the trim saw. Then I use the 80 grit wheel to help me decide what funny shape I want. I do think having a "normal" shape matters more with solid colored rocks or rocks without an interesting pattern. There's something about a perfect oval of jade, for example, that can't be matched with a random shape. But with the crazy lace in particular, the pattern and colors are going to be what gets your attention, not the shape of the cab. Whimsical shapes for whimsical rocks. My 2 cents at least. |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 19:29:33 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to jump in. Two oddly shaped freeforms...99.99% of all of the cabs I've made have been freeformed. In the words of Beth fernwood , I try to listen to the rocks... I like how you put the black healed fracture right in the middle of the second cab. Healed fractures in contrasting colors always speak to me. They make the stone look antique, I suppose. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 3, 2021 19:46:11 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to jump in. Two oddly shaped freeforms...99.99% of all of the cabs I've made have been freeformed. In the words of Beth fernwood , I try to listen to the rocks... Mike, I always love the shapes of your cabs! You do listen to the rocks! I've said it before, in my case when it comes to listening to the rocks, I need hearing aids! LOL Ok, I'm going to jump in. Two oddly shaped freeforms...99.99% of all of the cabs I've made have been freeformed. In the words of Beth fernwood , I try to listen to the rocks... Thanks for having my back on the funny shapes. I usually just pick an area that I like and cut about a quarter of an inch around that area with the trim saw. Then I use the 80 grit wheel to help me decide what funny shape I want. I do think having a "normal" shape matters more with solid colored rocks, for example. There's something about a perfect oval of jade, for example, that is likely to look better than a random shape. But with the crazy lace in particular, the pattern and colors are going to be what gets your attention, not the shape of the cab. My 2 cents at least. I agree with what you're saying about it being more beneficial for solid colored rocks to have a definite predetermined shape. Maybe with more time, I'll become more comfortable with freeform. I've always had the ability to "copy" something...but to actually come up with something on my own, I struggle. I create more with my head, rather than mostly with my heart...if that makes sense. |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 20:16:48 GMT -5
jasoninsd I think that's the best way to quickly learn anything. You start by analytically copying people with more experience and skill than you. But at some point, you're going to have this awesome slab... and after shuffling through all of your stencils two or three times, you will feel frustrated because they all either cut something off that you like, or include something that you don't. At that point, you will either (A) buy more templates; or (B) take a deep breath, spread your wings, and soar into the open sky of free-form cabochons. Like this:  Ha. A total fail. But I'm learning. At least I gave up while still on the hard wheels.
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Post by jasoninsd on Sept 3, 2021 20:28:02 GMT -5
jasoninsd I think that's the best way to quickly learn anything. You start by analytically copying people with more experience and skill than you. But at some point, you're going to have this awesome slab... and after shuffling through all of your stencils two or three times, you will feel frustrated because they all either cut something off that you like, or include something that you don't. At that point, you will either (A) buy more templates; or (B) take a deep breath, spread your wings, and soar into the open sky of free-form cabochons. Like this: Ha. A total fail. But I'm learning. At least I gave up while still on the hard wheels. Totally agree with regards to the learning curve. I'm starting to get a bit more comfortable...to a point...with what I'm doing cabbing certain materials. I know full well there's a ton of information to learn about cabbing a lot of different types of materials. I do "alter" the stencil shapes. If I need to stretch the length, or widen the width, then I'll maneuver the template into different positions while drawing the shape - in order to try and best capture patterns. That piece is totally salvageable! I see an elongated 40 degree oval capturing quite a bit of that pattern!  |
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Post by holajonathan on Sept 3, 2021 20:37:40 GMT -5
jasoninsd The reason it's not very salvageable is the same reason I tried the goofy shape... it's really small, so by the time I shape it up, it's gong to be the size of my thumbnail. Not obvious in my first photo, I suppose. 
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